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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Oil Weight? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1337960419 Message started by Jeremyf405 on 05/25/12 at 08:40:18 |
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Title: Oil Weight? Post by Jeremyf405 on 05/25/12 at 08:40:18 The cap says my 2000 takes 10-40 but I saw someone saying to use 20-50 for the hot Oklahoma summers. What do you think? |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Drifter on 05/25/12 at 08:46:37 I would never run 10-40 in a savage that is ridden in hot weather. 20-50 synthetic is the way to go. This is an air cooled engine that gets hot and is jetted lean which makes it run even hotter so use only high quality oil like Mobile 1 bike oil or amsoil or Rotella. Page 10 in the manual posted on here shows oil weights recommended First on the list is 20-50! Temps in the southern half of the US during summer get Hot, so like i said use 20-50 oil. This bike holds such a small amout of oil to begin with so why not use the best stuff out there. :) Synthetic oil is superior to dino based oil period! |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by verslagen1 on 05/25/12 at 08:50:20 I think you need an owners manual... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1138554254 |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Oldfeller on 05/25/12 at 16:23:55 Drifter has an opinion, and he shared it. Maybe he'll tell us why he thinks that. That should be educational. Personally, I think any JASO approved synthetic that ends in 40 weight is the correct oil weight for year round use in a Savage. So does Suzuki, for what that is worth. You know, we've had lots of oil discussions in years past and something that did stick out to me is oil performance (head temp sump temp) in the actual Savage engine was affected more by viscosity/weight than by the actual brand differences. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Wake51 on 05/25/12 at 23:17:06 http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y72/johnr1/RotellaT002.jpg |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Drifter on 05/26/12 at 04:37:41 What part do you need explained , that air cooled engines run hotter than liquid cooled ones or that lean jetting causes increased heat, or that synthetic oil has a higher temp tolerance before breaking down or that Mobile 1, Amsoil and Rotella are good oils............. :) |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Routy on 05/26/12 at 04:49:38 The slow turning Savage does not need expensive oils to have longivity. But thats only one of the reasons why we ride them. But opinions are fine. Rotella 15-40 is great. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/26/12 at 05:14:49 Ive seen one of these at a WalMart with just around 90,000 Miles on the odometer. I cant tell you how strongly I doubt that poor thing ever saw any oil that cost over $2.00 a quart. It was so ratty looking, I wonder if it was under cover at nite. BUT, it was an employees daily driver, I do believe, POint is, todays lousy oils are better than the best available in the 60's. You can spend more & pour pure Looove in the crankcase, but I doubt youll ever realize a difference in life span or maintenance required because of that choice. The only way I would expect that to change is if someone rides in parades, Idling along at 5 MPH for an hour in Horrid Heat,, & we all know how stupid that is, Remember when a car with 100,000 miles on it was considered Used UP? NOw, I see cars with 300,000 on them. It isnt the metallurgy or manufacturing process, its the oil thats so much better, well,, 80% is the oil,, Moral of the story is, Use a good oil, & for flat tappet applications, something like Rotella is a fine choice. Change it when it needs it. Mine lets me know when its time. OIl consumption goes up,, Say I ride 5 thousand miles a year, 20 years = 100,000 Naaah,, Im not gonne be here that long,, 7,500/year, 13.333 years,, Ill be 70.. I dont think I need to worry about wringing 200,000 out of it, Ill just save some $$$, buy the oil I believe will keep it alive, & not worry about it.,. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Uno-Lung on 05/26/12 at 06:34:49 I have to agree with Routy on the need for expensive oils for longevity. The biggest thing to remember is – change - change – change that oil. I myself have a problem with the 15-40 aspect of Rotella. Nintey percent of an engine’s wear is at startup, so 15 weight motor oil is not going to get to critical points within said engine as fast as ten weight – fact. Bet you Rotellers don’t know what the fricking “T” stands for behind Rotella. In lubrication circles it stands for model T like a Ford. It is old technology. The multi-vis molecule that makes it a 15-40 is shaped like a curly spring. Expansion and contraction at different temps make it get bigger and smaller. It’s a very strong molecule with strong bonds. However, it’s too strong and it doesn’t shear but bends making it a thicker wad to pass though the tight clearances within your GASOLINE engine, thus starving the film of lube between the critical parts with golf ball sized lubrication molecules. So when Buba trucker tells you he gets better oil pressure as the miles rack up with the Shell Roteller T in his Diesel, now you know why. One more thing – where on that pic up there does it say gasoline motor oil? Well it sez heavy duty / haute tenue, its got to be good!!!1 What is good for a diesel engine isn’t good for gasoline engines and vice versa. They are different animals. If you have a motor oil that is a multi-use it is a compromised formula therefore not the best formula for your use. It chemical engineering, people. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by arteacher on 05/26/12 at 06:37:53 I use Rotella T6 5W40. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by built2last66 on 05/26/12 at 07:19:27 Which oil would Jesus use? |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Uno-Lung on 05/26/12 at 07:25:43 Olive oil |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by built2last66 on 05/26/12 at 07:35:53 714A4B0968514A43240 wrote:
Fish oil? |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Oldfeller on 05/26/12 at 09:15:43 596263214079626B0C0 wrote:
We got us an oil expert here, sharing his knowledgeable opinions with us. Since he wants to play the game, I declare the blasted churned earth into existence yet again, The Endless Oil War recommences !!!!! Now, only a few things limit the endless oil war, so your FACTS and SOURCES become the most important elements of taking your best shot. During the oil war, bystanders can ring in asking for your source material so they can go read it. Failure to be able to do so counts mightily against you. Yup, failure to support your statements can lead to harsh sentencing by the Kangaroo Kourt (last KK sentence involved officially changing a poster's list name to Bullshooter Bill fer lying to us all repeatedly). Remember, we are talking about the Savage motorcycle engine, not your other bike or your car. Visitors get the first 3 shots, unencumbered (remember to state only facts you can find sources and proof fer) so fire away, young Oil Warrior. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/26/12 at 09:36:01 I love this place.. Aaaand in This Corner,, weighing in at 15-40 weight.. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Oldfeller on 05/26/12 at 09:40:40 JOG (the presiding judge of the KK) is here now, so the rest of the Kourt will be along directly) Fire away, Gridley -- 3 free shots with no rebuttal from me (newbie's advantage) |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Dave on 05/26/12 at 10:05:28 There are only 2 kinds of oil, Good Oil....and Bad Oil. I use the good oil! ;D |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by 360k+ on 05/26/12 at 10:18:50 OK Oldfeller, I'm gonna step in it, ummm, the trap, I mean... ;) While I am an engineer, I am not a chemist or lubrication engineer. My 2009 S40 owners manual and shop manual both recommend oil with SAE 10W-40 and API SF/SG or SH/SJ ratings. Since I must presume Suzuki engineers have a wealth of knowledge that far exceeds my own, I will stick with their recommendation. There is an old saying among bass fishermen... "most lures are designed to catch fishermen, not fish". Make sure you understand the difference between manufacturer marketing hype and honest scientific analysis. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by rfw2003 on 05/26/12 at 10:36:57 At the recommendations here and also the local cycle shops I just picked up Rotella T6 to use in my new to me 96' Savage |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Wake51 on 05/26/12 at 11:37:38 I'm just curious to know if some truly believe owners are headed down a road of engine destruction based on small differences in oil selection... :-/ None the less my posted pic was not meant to be a throw it in the face end all/be all oil recommendation, it was posted as a tool to help guide a rider to a jug of affordable and reliable oil, just as I was guided to it when I showed up here. Savage riders aren't the only ones to come across Rotella. As Oldfeller pointed out, the Motorcycle rating is printed right on the bottle. Here is an analysis of Rotella T 15W-40 from Sportster users. The analysis itself isn't really useful to Savage owners, but demonstrates other communities find it as a satisfactory lubricant for their scoots. And you know how fickle those HD guys can be... :-* http://xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=66429&highlight=rotella+analysis In the end, just make sure you run SOME oil. An oil war thread on here is always better than a break down story in the Cafe. ...unless said break down happened in front of a topless bar with cold ones on special. But we could only hope to be so lucky. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Oldfeller on 05/26/12 at 11:47:47 2F293A31717D7B7A71480 wrote:
OK, I'll very gently close the steel jaws of the trap for you. The 15-20 year old SF/SG/SH oil specs specified a high detergent oil with around 1,000-1200 PPM of ZDDP which is what is needed to keep the flat tappets and cam healthy in a Savage engine. The valve train in this engine was designed around this sort of oil as it was STANDARD back then. Problem is, you can't find very many modern car oils with the requisite ZDDP any more as we are all the way up to SN specs now (which state ZDDP will be around 600 PPM). Modern bike oils are dropping ZDDP levels too, since there ARE bikes out there with catalytic converters in them now (BMW, various touring bikes). So, how do you manage to honor your manufacturer's oil requirement with a JASO MA MA2 wet clutch motorcycle certified product that DOES meet the old SF/SG/SH oil specs? http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/02/14/00/56/0002140056026_180X180.jpg |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by built2last66 on 05/26/12 at 12:01:30 I use WWJU (What Would Jesus Use) when deciding what type of oil to get... I also use this method when deciding what type of beer to get |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by aintright on 05/26/12 at 12:36:36 796E72776F29777A686F2D2D1B0 wrote:
i tried this method for awhile, but the olive oil didn't hold up too well and he kept wanting me to drink wine, not beer. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Starlifter on 05/26/12 at 13:57:49 What about semi-synthetic motorcycle oil? I see it advertised...any advantages to this blend? |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Oldfeller on 05/26/12 at 15:01:30 To be honest I never thought about it. They charge more per quart for most semi-syns than Rotella T6 costs, and T6 is a full synthetic with JASO MA MA2 rating and a big history of being heat proof and long lasting. Why pay more for something that is less in every way you can think of? |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Cavi Mike on 05/26/12 at 15:02:17 714A4B0968514A43240 wrote:
http://cavimike.com/oliveoyl.JPG |
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Title: Re: War & Peace Post by Uno-Lung on 05/26/12 at 15:14:53 Free shot #1 Scorched earth and coked bearings, hey? Let me address your first red letter volley. Agreed -- but 5 points on starting weight isn't very much difference. You yourself must agreed using T6 5W40 – it’s a big difference. 10 points, but who’s counting? Second red letter volley Actually, it stands for Triple Protection. According to the Shell link – Shell Rotella T motor oil with Triple Protection Technology is our most significant advancement in heavy-duty motor oil in 30 years. Funny that it was called “T” for 30 years and then came up with TPT just lately for it to stand for T. Next thing you know, instead of nitrogen they will be putting skittles in their gas – it’s sucker bait, my friend. Third red letter volley Share some source material with us that says an oil molecule (no matter how bunched up you want to make it) cannot fit into the oil film clearance in even the tightest manufactured engine. Here's my source that says otherwise. While I never said that they can’t fit, they will end up starving the film longer at startup, and by your link it proves that their size is measurable. They wouldn’t work as intended and end up as something thicker than 15-40. tldr: Cold thick oil pumps slower than thin oil. Fourth red letter volley Actually, it says JASO MA MA2 approved motorcycle oil right on the bottle. Sorry, that bottle and product in the picture does not say that. Actually, Shell’s site says API CJ-4, CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CF, SM, SL, SJ, SH; ACEA E9, E7; JASO DH-2, MA; Caterpillar ECF-1A, ECF-2, ECF-3; Cummins CES 20081; DDC 93K218; Deutz DQC III-05; MACK EO-O Premium Plus; Ford WSS-M2C171-E; MAN 3275; MB Approval 228.31; MTU Category 2; Renault Trucks RLD-3; Volvo VDS-4 http://www-static.shell.com/static/can-en/downloads/products_services/lubricants/rotella/rotella_triple_protection.pdf So, here go the torpedoes Shell Rotella T is not the same as Shell Rotella T6. It seems to me that all Rotellers seem to think that us newbies that are looking for answers know that fact. Most don’t. Please refrain from calling the product Rotella T. Please call it Rotella T6. It’s a wonderful oil for the Savage. But when it comes to these bikes, I think JOG’s ninty thousand mile Walmart worker’s bike says it all and his thinking on the subject show something. Any oil is better than no oil, and if you change it often like my first sentence in my first post -- it will last a long time. Buying expensive T6 and extending the drain interval is a crap shoot. Contamination is our biggest adversary to long life. Change oil often and use what the manufacture recommends, 10w40 motorcycle oil. Egad, Oldfeller posted a picture of the wrong product propagating the ignorance of the fine product T6. http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/tartard/mousemilk.jpg |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Cavi Mike on 05/26/12 at 16:51:28 Free shot #2 Not to put down T6 or any of the knowledge you've shared but everything I've read about Rotella T* oils is that they are for diesel engines. Diesel is a much different fuel than gasoline. It makes me wonder if what's so great about it for use on diesel engines matters not on a petrol engine. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Cavi Mike on 05/26/12 at 17:14:29 Free shot #3 all done now And for the record, there isn't a single Shell oil that meets the proper JASO certs for motorbikes. At least not at the time of this filing: http://www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Dead Fish on 05/26/12 at 17:30:55 Man the walls and secure the gate. The Oil Wars continue. Now, what shall we use for the boiling oil? To heck with it. Just throw rocks. http://farm8.static.flickr.com/7077/7276108506_311ecc4408_s.jpg |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by 360k+ on 05/26/12 at 17:32:31 597A7270737A7A7364160 wrote:
Now I regret not following my instincts and staying clear of the foray. Substitute any two oils named here (or in other oil threads) for Ford vs Chevy, and the age old war of opinions continues... only the subjects change. And darn that Suzuki for specifying an oil that was already 12 years obsolete when my bike was made, and having the audacity to print it in the manual! OF replies: In their defense the spec was current when the bike was first designed and built -- it is our US government (CAFE standards) that caused the oil itself to shift out from under the bike like it did. Seriously, my only point was that I'm staying with manufacturer recommendations, as I have always done with the rest of my stable (including a BMW GS with catalytic). |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by bill67 on 05/26/12 at 17:39:37 Use a motorcycle oil and your on the right track,Using a diesel oil is about as dumb as you can get.Why don't Suzuki tell you to use a diesel oil. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Cavi Mike on 05/26/12 at 17:45:17 Why were my posts edited? OF: Just keeping count of the 3 free shots that I promised the newbies at the start of the oil war. I did so much searching about this stuff and all I've found is a bunch of debates on a bunch of other motorbike and oil forums, all complete with no straight answers. The best answers I could find were on BobTheOilGuy and apparently the specs that Shell posts actually do meet JASO specs but they also don't list some of the other specs that are required for the JASO cert. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Cavi Mike on 05/26/12 at 18:01:31 I'm a newbie to the forum but that's where that ends. Feel free to pick apart what I've said. I wouldn't have said it if I didn't want to be part of the discussion. I'm also quite offended by the editing of my posts. As much as I hate being wrong, I'd rather be wrong than patronized. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Oldfeller on 05/26/12 at 18:20:22 Now, has every body been issued their kevlar underwear and have they been issued their main battle rifle and hand grenades? Are we ready to begin? Three free shots were offered and three were taken, so I guess I can respond now. ======================= Dear Uno First, quoting out of country specs in an attempt to mislead folks is kinda like cheating -- Kalamazoo is not located in Canada, is it? Current American spec'd Rotella T dino 15w40 is certified for JASO DH2 and MA which are the current specifications for Japanese cars (DH2 now, used to be MA2) and Japanese motorcycles (MA). Ditto for T6, but we weren't talking about T6 earlier, now were we? Trying to cloud the water with a synthetic when you and Routy were clearly talking about dino 15w40 doesn't help your position much either. Next, your molecule thing is still ridiculous, here are your own words yet again. My, it certainly does sound like you were talking about Rotella T 15w40, doesn't it? "Bet you Rotellers don’t know what the fricking “T” stands for behind Rotella. In lubrication circles it stands for model T like a Ford. It is old technology. The multi-vis molecule that makes it a 15-40 is shaped like a curly spring. Expansion and contraction at different temps make it get bigger and smaller. It’s a very strong molecule with strong bonds. However, it’s too strong and it doesn’t shear but bends making it a thicker wad to pass though the tight clearances within your GASOLINE engine, thus starving the film of lube between the critical parts with golf ball sized lubrication molecules." Golf ball sized, huh? Cavie, yes Rotella products were originally developed and sold for diesel engines. And they have been used in motorcycles for decades now because they have all the ZDDP we need and none of the energy star moly crap we DON'T need. They are now recognized by most motorcycle sites as "motorcycle oil" nowdays as they meet all the requirements of the JASO rating board and are JASO certified for both Japanese diesel cars and Japanese gasoline motorcycles. Cavie, no, your PDF file is either out of country or out of date, both USA Rotella products are JASO rated in the USA and have been for over a year now. https://www.google.com/search?q=rotella+jaso+ma&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=ubuntu&channel=fs Next, what was removed from your posts? If I did it, it was inadvertent I assure you. Hey Bill, how's it going? Try to help them out if you can, they need it. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Oldfeller on 05/26/12 at 18:48:09 [split] [splithere] (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1338082366)[splithere_end] Built2Last66 has his own discussion now over in the TT -- and he can talk about his religious stuff over there. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Cavi Mike on 05/26/12 at 18:51:59 Nothing was removed. I'm over it. No harm, no foul. Thank you for the information, I'll definitely keep it and spread it if I come across the discussion elsewhere. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Oldfeller on 05/26/12 at 19:08:30 Part of what frustrates folks is the information is constantly changing on them. Example MA-2 is now DH-2, which caught me out. Think of what changes have taken place since the Savage started being built and it is amazing it does as well as it does today, all leaned out and fiddled with as it is. We still don't know if the Savage is done in 2012 as a in-production bike, or if they will put a fuel injection package on a 2013 model. And if they do give it a few more years, will they ever acknowledge the oil spec SF/SG/SH vs the current SN being sold now thing in the owner's manual? |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Uno-Lung on 05/27/12 at 05:23:55 You sunk my Battleship, Oldfellow. I defer to your superior updated knowledge. It was a fun ride and I got my post numbers up writing about one of the reasons why Shell reformulated Rotella T over the past ten years. I’m basically here to learn about my motorcycle and have fun doing it and that I did. Thank you for taking the time, Oldguy. Do you really believe that anyone would think a golf ball sized lubrication molecule is real? If you do I’ve got a slightly used toy Yoda that you could talk to when the one in your head has a tummy ache. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by WD on 05/27/12 at 09:04:13 I love oil war threads... I bought my bike brand new in February 1998. In Biloxi Mississippi. From a dealership that actually knew what it was doing, owner/salesman and the mechanic were former factory backed Suzuki racers. They said run the factory fill until the first service. From then on run 15W40 at temps below 60*F 20W50 at temps greater than that. Brand doesn't matter. Dino versus synthetic doesn't matter. The engine proper is 1940's technology. The clutch isn't much more modern. I've run 10W40 motorcycle synthetic in mine, in the deep south, in mid-summer. 300 miles and the crankcase was dry. Refilled it with automotive/diesel dino oil and never looked back. FWIW, my timing chain still doesn't rattle and the valves have NEVER had to be adjusted. Clutch is still in great shape. Never any glitter in the drain pan... And that bike has seen hundreds of wide open throttle miles, thousands of miles of normal riding. Oh, never compare oil charts air-cooled HD to air-cooled metrics unless you mean old CB750s with dry sump oiling. Savages are wet sump, completely different than those. |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Serowbot on 05/27/12 at 10:22:12 I use Shell Rotella... 'cause all the smartest bikers I know use it... (saves me having to think for myself)... :-?... ... but,.. any quality brand name 10w-40 is fine.. as long as it ain't "fuel saving" specialty oil... Don't ever use "house brand" oil, e.g., Pep Boys, Auto Zone, Kmart, etc... in anything but door hinges... ... and only in door hinges of people you don't like... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/27/12 at 11:38:06 and only in door hinges of people you don't like I guess Ill never buy a house brand, Im not the kinda guy who oils hinges for people I dont like.,unless theyre in my house, & the door wont open so they can leave,,Then IM usin Kroil, so they can hurry up & GO! HEY!! My windows never stick,, he he he,, Bye now,, y'all come back now, hear? ;D |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Boofer on 05/27/12 at 22:38:12 I agree with Serowbot. I know about shearing molecules and what heat does and all that technical stuff, but I was paying $24 a gallon and my friends were RACING $10,000 bikes with Rotella. Sometimes you got to quit reading and thinking and just look around. Turned over 20,000 last Friday. 13,000 mine and about 10,000 on Rotella. Use what you like. Just keep it clean. :) |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by mpescatori on 05/28/12 at 05:45:57 435C5A5D40477646764E5C501B290 wrote:
Quite frankly, it depends on the house brand in the first place. In Europe, three supermarket brands I will happily buy are French home brand Auchan (oil c/o Elf)... http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTAwWDU1Mw==/$(KGrHqF,!rkE88hC9wj)BPT2DM3-WQ~~60_35.JPGhttp://medias.forum-auto.com/uploads/200307/stefano_1411200231_huile23.jpg ... Carrefour (oil c/o Mobil) ... http://i40.tinypic.com/idhwud.jpghttp://www.centrosudricambi.it/images/MOBIL%200W40.jpg ... and LeClerc (oil c/o Castrol) http://bonsplansdeclement.ocitoblog.com/files/2011/02/huile_moteur.jpghttp://img225.imageshack.us/img225/5848/huile1kl8.jpg All oil companies are well known and respected for their oils, and have successfully sponsored sports events. So, if it turns out that Walmart oil is actually produced by... Pennzoil (that's what I found) or by Quaker (different search engine, go figure)... or by Warren (???) are they trustworthy ? They should well be ! http://monsterfreebies.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/178.pnghttp://www.gmkfreelogos.com/logos/Q/img/quaker_state.gifhttp://talariawalk.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/608quaker-oats1.jpg?w=299&h=208 :D As for "generic" or "substandard" oils, these are often 2nd hand, recycled motor oils which are collected, filtered and centrifuged (to get all the muck out) chemically cleansed and "revitalized" (=re-additived) and resold as "20W-40", which is really the new age equivalend to dad's old SAE30. Personally, I "feed" my girl with "10W-40 SG/..." (forget the brand, it was on sale at 1€/liter !!!)which is well beyond Owner's Handbook required standards, and never had an issue, not even in winter startups or in the hottest of summer traffic jams. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Oil Weight? Post by Drifter on 05/29/12 at 07:45:57 Higher priced oils have a better package with more of the stuff that is good for an engine like zinc not just the bare minimum to get certified. This engine uses so little oil and runs so hot why not give it the good stuff?? As several people have said change it often, gears brake down the good stuff cheap even faster........... ;) You guys that dont like synthethic oil, as an experiment dig deep and buy some mobile 1 or amsoil and try it...you WILL notice the engine is quieter and shifts alot smoother and your gas mileage will be better due to less friction the syn oil provides. :) |
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