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Message started by sbaugz on 05/22/12 at 15:24:20

Title: savage burning oil?
Post by sbaugz on 05/22/12 at 15:24:20

So I have an 06 ls650 that I purchased last year with only 1000 miles on it. I did a RYCA conversion and subsequently only put another 580 miles on it. When I finished the conversion, I changed the oil and filter- putting about 2.5 quarts inside. Fast forward a year later and 580 miles of driving. I will admit I am terrible about maintenance so I never really have checked oil since. On the way home from work today, the bike just died. I pulled off to side of road, thinking maybe it was gas. Well, I have plenty of gas. I started it up again after about a minute of cranking it over. It finally started and got me home. I decided to check the oil level and I couldn't even register thru sight window so I decided it would be a good time to change it. Well. after changing oil, I discovered that only about .6 quarts was inside, and that was with filter change. I also spilled another .2-.3 quarts while checking oil filter too. Anyways, I refilled with new oil but now I am a little worried about how much oil I have lost (almost 1.75 quarts) over the past year. I checked over the entire engine and there are no leaks anywhere. There are never any leaks underneath the bike on garage floor. Is this a normal amount of oil loss, or do I have something major going on here? Thanks

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/22/12 at 15:38:57

1.75 quarts is definitely a lot of oil to lose.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by brucey on 05/22/12 at 15:52:32

If its burning that much oil I would imagine there would be a lot of smoke to go along with it.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by bill67 on 05/22/12 at 15:56:15

The only thing I could think is the rings never got seated good,Does it smoke out the exhaust.Mine don't even use a half a cup in 2500 miles But I don't drive hard.I've had a lot of bikes and none of them hardly used any oil.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/22/12 at 15:56:24

Take out the plug and eye ball the top of the piston, if you're burning oil, it'll be covered in carbon.

But, high speed burns oil.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by sbaugz on 05/22/12 at 15:56:38

4D5D5A4C4A562F0 wrote:

If its burning that much oil I would imagine there would be a lot of smoke to go along with it.

you'd think so but there really isn't any smoke. The only smoke I get is for the first minute or so when I have the choke on. Once I push the choke in, the smoke goes away.
Will pull plugs and check them out.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by sbaugz on 05/22/12 at 15:58:07

4B584F4E515C5A58530C3D0 wrote:

Take out the plug and eye ball the top of the piston, if you're burning oil, it'll be covered in carbon.

But, high speed burns oil.

will check that out. I haven't taken it faster than 60. Mostly I drive around town at 30-40 MPH

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by bill67 on 05/22/12 at 16:02:08

I would put some Sea Foam in the oil and run it maybe the rings are stuck.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/22/12 at 16:42:29

If there's no noticeable smoke, I'd be looking for a leak somewhere. If it's burning that much, it'd be a mosquito-killer.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by sbaugz on 05/22/12 at 17:57:44

44766176707248457875170 wrote:

If there's no noticeable smoke, I'd be looking for a leak somewhere. If it's burning that much, it'd be a mosquito-killer.

that's what is strange, I looked all over the entire motor and don't see any trace of leaking oil anywhere. Not only that, but it was parked in the same spot all winter for like 7 months and you would think a leak of that significance would have left some oil on the garage floor. I did pull the plug but I couldn't really see down inside without taking tank off- don't really want to remove the tank just yet so I guess I will have to wait on checking inside the plug. I will post a picture of the plug in a bit. It had some small amounts of carbon around the rim and the tip of the plug looked a little white-ish. Its an iridium plug.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by Oldfeller on 05/22/12 at 18:27:21

Stupid assumption on my part -- you took the engine apart at some point in time.

Quick question -- IF SO did you hone the bore lightly to break the glaze and put a set of cross hatch scratches on the bore surface?

If you've never had it apart (and the PO didn't have it apart) then you are looking for an internal leak (should be burning oil) stiffened valve seals (should be burning oil) or stuck rings (should be burning oil).

;D ;D ;D <evil chuckle>

Bill missed one -- what sort of oil are you using?

Routy missed one -- if you were using the list side stand oil check method instead of the Suzuki method you wouldn't have run out of oil like that .....

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by sbaugz on 05/22/12 at 20:03:29

77545C5E5D54545D4A380 wrote:

Motor was never taken apart. The bike is only 5 years old, and only has 1600 miles on it, so no reason to. Only taking apart I did was to remove left and right side covers to powder coat them black. I also did the cam chain tensioner upgrade.

No work was done to top end, valves, etc.

I am using plain Castrol 4 stroke motorcycle oil- 20W-50. Non synthetic.

I have attached a picture of my plug as it looks today.

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/sbaugz/IMG_1071.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/sbaugz/IMG_1067.jpg

http://i1043.photobucket.com/albums/b436/sbaugz/IMG_1065.jpg

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by Oldfeller on 05/22/12 at 20:17:23

Me, I think you are burning some oil.

What do the rest of you guys think?

====================================

Now the additive lovers are gonna send you to the Additive Isle to buy some this and that.

REMEMBER, don't do two things at once, or you'll never know what fixed it (or melted it as the case may be).

I'd try to de-stick the rings first (and that is put the additive in and wait one full oil change to see if it does anything for you).

Then, change the oil and then try to swell & soften your valve stem seals back up some.

If it is an additive fixable thing, my money is on the valve stem seals being stiff and needing swelling/softening. Always remember is you only use a quarter of what you would put in a car -- your bike only holds two quarts of oil and you don't want to melt anything important ......

:)

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by verslagen1 on 05/22/12 at 20:24:57

that's only a light coating of carbon, hard to tell if it's oil or running rich.

if it's just a bad breakin of the rings, some hard accels and decels should fix it up and maybe a couple of squirts of marvel mystery oil.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by Oldfeller on 05/22/12 at 20:30:42

Is your air filter all butt ugly plugged up with dust?

(this can make you go rich and greatly increase your vac suction on the oil huff tube as your engine is sucking hard at a plugged up filter)

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by sbaugz on 05/23/12 at 04:23:02

496A6260636A6A6374060 wrote:

Is your air filter all butt ugly plugged up with dust?

(this can make you go rich and greatly increase your vac suction on the oil huff tube as your engine is sucking hard at a plugged up filter)

air filter looks fine- (its the RYCA CS-1 K&N filter) but it looks fine. So when you say additive, what does that mean? Seafoam like suggested earlier in the post?

would it help at all to do compression test? If so, what is the procedure for checking compression on the savage and what should the numbers be?

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/23/12 at 06:54:42

2B382F2E313C3A38336C5D0 wrote:

I think I'm gonna have to go with this as well.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by sbaugz on 05/23/12 at 07:11:02

Will try what you all have suggested
As long as I will have the plug out, I might as well check compression. Can someone tell me how to check I this bike? Also, what are numbers supposed to be? I have only checked compression on a kick start bike before.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by spacepirates on 05/23/12 at 07:58:13

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1332972110/5#5

(copy/pasted from thumperclone's post in that thread):
compression pressure
standard
142-200 psi
limit
114 psi
low compression may indicate any of the following:
excess cyl wall wear
worn piston or rings
rings stuck in the grooves
poor seating of valves
defective head gasket

so anywhere from 142 to 200 is normal and you need to do something if it is lower than 114.

compression test is plug in the tester to the spark plug hole, crank her a few times, write down the number, release pressure, repeat to get a few measurements. this is all with the engine cold.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by 360k+ on 05/23/12 at 08:00:07

After changing the oil, ride it everyday or as often as possible systematically checking the oil level before and after each ride. Each time also check the motor and cases for oil residue being blown out. If you've lost 1.75 quarts in just 500+ miles of riding then you should see a steady and consistent decrease in oil level.

Continue closely monitoring the garage floor (as you have done). If the oil isn't on the floor, then it's either going out the exhaust, the breather, or around a gasket somewhere. No other place for it to go. You also might want to have someone follow you for a few miles of city driving to check on smoke accelerating, decelerating, steady riding, etc.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/23/12 at 08:56:58

Id do the spark plug door mod on this one,,

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by sbaugz on 05/23/12 at 10:01:20

47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:

Id do the spark plug door mod on this one,,

not needed. Its a RYCA CS-1 conversion so the valve covers are removed.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by sbaugz on 05/23/12 at 13:10:31

added some seaform to oil.
Did a compression test and it gives me 150PSI with throttle open and cold engine. Seems like its within normal range. Will try and drive around with the sea foam in there for a while and see what happens. Just for kicks, I put a 1/2 teaspoon sea foam directly into cylinder and let it sit a minute or two before putting spark plug back in and starting up.

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by Oldfeller on 05/23/12 at 15:24:21

So, now you've done the "de-sticky the rings" thing -- so, keep on running it through one full oil change and keep track of your oil usage.

Remember to zap your RPMs up occasionally to help seat the rings (if poor ring seating was your issue).

After that next oil change, post in this same thread again and give us a data summary of what happened.

(we will be looking for decreasing consumption if rings seating or freeing were part of your issues)

BTW, did you find any sand or dirt or crap laying anywhere around your spark plug hole when you took the plug out the first time?

Title: Re: savage burning oil?
Post by brucey on 06/17/12 at 17:58:21

this may be a stupid question but are you checking the oil level with the sight glass while its leaning on the kickstand or are you standing the bike up so its level?