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Message started by deepvalley on 05/16/12 at 18:22:53

Title: Cant figure it out!
Post by deepvalley on 05/16/12 at 18:22:53

Ok guys, I need some help. I have a 99 savage ls650 and its driving me crazy! First problem, shes idling great but when I take her down the road she will shut down before I get it a mile or so. I can make her do it while in my little shop by reving the rpms up and keeping them there for about 3 minutes. What is going on? Second problem is that she is puking oil out of the breather tube coming out of the top of the head when the rpms are kept high. To give you a little background on her she has about 14000miles on it and I just finished restoring her body wise and she has an aftermarket breather and the muffler is punched out. Other than those two things she is mechanically stock. :( HELP!!

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by verslagen1 on 05/16/12 at 18:45:33

check your petcock

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/12 at 19:19:37

I wouldnt high idle it for 3 minutes without it getting air past it myself,

Is the idle at 1,000 rpm or better?

14,000 miles,, sure is time to cast an eye on the cam chain,

OIl out the breather? Ill wait on a smart guy for that one.,

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by Pine on 05/16/12 at 20:30:03

Gas problem sounds like carb floats/valve. It could be that not enough gas is replacing gas int he bowl. Once the bowl runs dry ... she dies... then cranking/sitting ... replenishes the bowl.

Petcock, might also be it as the carb has to supply vacume to allow gas to pass to the carb.

It there gas in the vacumn line to the petcock?
Is there vacumn in the line?

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/12 at 20:34:18

If theres not gas in the vacuum line, Put it in prime & get the bowl full,pull the gas line off the carb or take it off the petcock & put a longer one on,That would be better. Put a catch can down & put it on prime & see how it flows. Turn it to on,, shouldnt be any gas now,,now, start it & see what the flow is like, goose it & see if it slows the flow.

what did it do?

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by arteacher on 05/16/12 at 20:35:12

Smell your oil. If it smells like gas your petcock is leaking gas down the vac tube into the carb and then to the motor. Don't run it at all if you smell gas in the oil. The only reason I can think of for oil spewing out the crank case breather is that there is too much liquid in the crankcase.
And your float bowl could be running dry at three miles if the diaphragm is leaking in the petcock.
Also your gas cap my not be venting properly causing vacuum in the tank, which will cause the motor to quit after a few miles.

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by MMRanch on 05/16/12 at 21:01:14

you mean too much blow-by is comming out

as in broken ring(s) or ring slot on piston?

or

you mean oil can't drain down out of the head and is getting blow out the vent ?

either way about 14,000 miles is when I replaced the cam chain the first time ... If I had of gone with a softer spring and a "Versey" type adjuster then , "I,d still be on the second chain". We live and learn!

When you go in to replace the chain you'll be deep enough to ansure all the above questions.
:)

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by deepvalley on 05/16/12 at 21:16:14

Thanks for all the advise guys. I did set up an industrial fan before running it in the test so air was flowing. I am going to check the petcock tomarrow as several of you advised. The chain and cam were just inspected by a dealer certified mechanic last fall and the valves were adjusted then as well. And no the oil doesnt smell like gas, it is being blown out the hose in mass! Like its not draining back properly. I will keep you posted and once again thanks for the help!

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/12 at 21:54:57

Like its not draining back properly.

Thats what I was thinking from your original post, but I dont think thats ever been seen. So, I had no idea what to say, & still dont,

How much has it been run since the cam chain was done?
Theres a wad of scrub pad looking stuff poked in over there,

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by deepvalley on 05/16/12 at 22:15:53

Its only been run about 200-300 miles since the work was done but I know the guys at the dealer and I doubt they screwed anything up. Those guys are perfectionists! And it ran great for those few hundred miles. Shes had a rough life before I got her and Im just trying to get her back to fightin' weight so to speak! Working out the bugs...

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by Oldfeller on 05/16/12 at 22:38:38

Deep Valley, Take it back to the dealer, show them the issue -- get them to tell you exactly what they took off and did to the bike when they worked on it.

Inside the top cover is a mass of rolled up screening that acts as an liquid oil / blow by separator system and if this screen were left out by your "perfectionists" you would get oil liquid coming out with the blow by gas flow. This rolled up screening can fall out of the cover and hit the floor, unnoticed and get kicked under the lift.

These bikes "huff" a huge volume of air when the piston goes up and down. To see this first hand, pull the timing plug on the left side cover on the motor, spread some rags on the ground and crank her up. It will blow "rain" all over the concrete. "Huff" is such an energy stealer is has a carefully designed control system designed into the bike and that is the one you are complaining is putting out too much liquid oil.

BTW What makes you think your perfectionists have ever worked on one of these bikes before?

Young mechanics come and go every summer and the dealership only sells one or two Savages a year ..... and sees one of them even more rarely.

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by deepvalley on 05/17/12 at 06:15:48

The suzuki specialists at this dealer have been working there since before 99 when I bought my first savage. They are the two guys I go to when I cant do something due to whatever and one of them ownes a 97 savage! So Oldfeller I would consider them knowledgable and fully competent. I dont trust many people to work on my bikes unless I know they are good! Thats one reason I am trying to figure this out myself the other is experienced mechanics time is not cheap! ;D

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by 360k+ on 05/19/12 at 09:28:57

Except for the oil/head problem, it almost sounds like it might be the gas tank vent; i.e., vent plugged = tank vacuum. One easy way to check is to run engine with gas cap loosely fitted.

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by splash07 on 05/19/12 at 15:40:25

4A594E4F505D5B59520D3C0 wrote:

check your petcock

+1

Had the same symptoms and sure enough it was the petcock. letting too much gas down the vac line and overflowing oil out the crankcase breather.

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by Routy on 05/19/12 at 16:01:13

Like always, petcock paranoia has already set in. But most likely, it is not getting full vacuum to the petcock, starving the engine for fuel.

Turn it to "prime",....see if it cures the dying problem. If it does, check for a vacuum leak to the petcock, like a loose fit, or split end hose.

I coulda swore he said there was no oil in the gas. Maybe I was hulustinating ;) ;

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by Oldfeller on 05/19/12 at 16:17:05

10130F02100B5354630 wrote:

[quote author=4A594E4F505D5B59520D3C0 link=1337217774/0#1 date=1337219133]check your petcock

+1

Had the same symptoms and sure enough it was the petcock. letting too much gas down the vac line and overflowing oil out the crankcase breather. [/quote]

I guess you are saying it overfilled your crankcase by adding such a volume of gasoline to the sump the oil/gas mix was blowing out the top breather tube down to the air box ???

Wow -- please tell me this didn't happen for real !!!

:o :o :o Molotov cocktail, just needed a backfire spark ..... Routy wants very much for this not to be the case, as do I

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by splash07 on 05/19/12 at 17:34:46

No, not down the air box, no air box, so it blew gas oil mix out the crankcase breather filter just under the tank and all over me and the rear tire while going down the highway at about 45 mph. Not exactly safe.

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by Oldfeller on 05/21/12 at 08:07:53

So, you are telling us that a bad stock vac petcock was dumping enough gasoline down the vac tube to overfill your sump to the point that gas/oil mix was coming out the top blow by tube and spraying flammable gas/oil mix on your legs and lower body?

You do realize that a carb backfire or a road tossed rock making a spark could have turned you into a localized version of The Burning Man ????

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by splash07 on 05/21/12 at 08:14:59

I did say that it wasnt exactly safe didnt I.

I doubt that oil is prevented from flowing back down. The oil returns from the top of the motor through the cam chain opening so it literally cannot be blocked. As for the screen mesh, mine was in place and always has been. Even without the screen material that wouldnt explain such a large volume of oil to flow out the breather. If you forgot your screen mesh you might expect some oil to make its way down the breather tube.

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by deepvalley on 05/23/12 at 16:43:03

THANK YOU to everyone that gave me advise on my lil lady and her problems! I checked the flow of fuel and, as most of you indicated, my petcock was bad. I plugged the vacume line at both ends and will be running her with it on prime for a few days until the new peice can be ordered but atleast I am riding again! It felt so good to ride today without worrying about her quiting on me. The oil thing must have been a one time thing because it hasn't happened again. I wrapped the end of the hose in white cloth to see if it did it under ridding conditions and it was only slightly oily. I can only figure that it was a buildup in the hose that blew out under pressure. Once again, THANK YOU ALL. Its great being a part of a community that cares about others enough to try and help a guy with a problem out. I am on the road again!!! ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Cant figure it out!
Post by Savage_Rob on 05/24/12 at 07:48:32

56554944564D1512250 wrote:

So you have an add-on breather filter. This is not stock. In a stock configuration, the breather tube routes into the airbox. That's why there's a drain tube in the bottom of the airbox. That's why Oldfeller asked about it being dumped to the airbox. I guess that's a bad side-effect of having the external breather filter. However, it's also good from the standpoint that it gets your attention.