|
SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Not MC related - local news-wondering your opinion /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1336489979 Message started by babyhog on 05/08/12 at 08:12:59 |
|
Title: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opinion Post by babyhog on 05/08/12 at 08:12:59 We have a controversial thing going on here. A principal "forcibly" removed a child from a school bus and now he has been charged with felony child abuse. Just at work, I have heard comments ranging from 'that man should be executed' to 'the child should have been behaving'. Just wondering which way you lean on the subject. (bus video camera captured part of the action) http://www.wchstv.com/newsroom/eyewitness/120507_9168.shtml |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by thumperclone on 05/08/12 at 08:36:49 i didnt see a crime civil suit ? these are sue crazy times maybe the principal can sue |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by verslagen1 on 05/08/12 at 08:54:31 Can't see video, I'll have to go on the story. Which didn't detail any of the kids injuries... No blood, no broken bones, no foul. perhaps the principal shoulda backed off and called the cops, they did say the kids attempted to cause him bodilly harm. coulda kicked him in the nuts... that'd be sexual harassment. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/08/12 at 09:02:06 Times are crazy,, been headed this way for decades, valedictorian takes a cake & everything needed to pass pieces out & gets expelled over a plastuc knife, but kids act up all day & teachers have no recourse today, except ask them to be nice, Here we have this supposedly "special needs" kid,, okay,, its true, but to what degree? & How much BS does that kid get away with daily Because of that "special Needs" tag? Maybe it was time this kid get a more "Hands On" lesson in doing what he is told. Theres really not enough context here for me. Thats the Principal, so, I know a couple of things. He has been in the school system a while. He is well paid & values his job. There is a camera watching his every move. I have to think he didnt believe his actions were Over the Line. I dont either, based on what I saw. Not every act by an adult in dealing with a kid is kind & loving & all warm & fuzzy. Its time people stop tying the hands of the people the kids are sent to every day. I think the kids have ( some of them, anyway) learned they can act pretty bad & get away with it. Theres a real good chance he knows that kid & theres a real good chance he is just fed up with him, Some kids will take advantage of the rules & behave as badly as they can get away with, some kids are just nice & want to be nice & live in a nice world, But I expect we all remember the punks & thugs from school. Without the paddle in the principals office always being there & at the ready, they would have been so much worse,, I cant imagine what school is like today. You know they cant even play dodge ball any more, right? |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by Serowbot on 05/08/12 at 09:17:38 Everything nowadays is a lawsuit.... whatever happened to apology?... The kid should apologise for his tantrum,.. and the principal should apologise for kicking the boy off the bus... Kiss and make up... :-* :-* :-*.... Why can't we all just get along?... :-?... The video looked like he was wrastlin' a wet cat in a bathtub!... ;D... |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by babyhog on 05/08/12 at 09:22:53 Thanks, you all make me feel better for my thinking. Our educators must have some leaway when it comes to our kids. We expect them to educate them but not teach them how not to act? I don't think so! Granted, I don't condone child abuse. But like JOG, I bet this principal knew this child very well and has had dealings with him before. I don't understand those who want to hang the very people we expect to help raise our children. The schools are the only place where some children have any structure whatsoever, and where they can be taught that certain behaviors are unacceptable. Yea Bot, why can't we all just get along?! |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by bill67 on 05/08/12 at 09:45:08 Hang the principal,Most teachers don't know how to handle power.My son got ruffed up by a teacher in high school,The teacher got a weeks paid vacation.One of my granddaughters in 6th grade had a desk knocked over and every thing in it went flying,It was a man teacher,The principal said he was very disappointed in the teacher thats all that happened. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by arteacher on 05/08/12 at 09:45:45 If the kid was engaged in activity that endangered the safety and or peaceful security of himself or other students the Principal's actions were necessary, and even mandated. It looks to me that the kid threw a temper tantrum and could have done harm to himself or others. To charge the Principal with a criminal offense is over reacting. Even if the Principal is acquitted or found not guilty his career is ruined, and he would be wise to sue for loss of a lifetimes worth of wages. I agree completely with JoG as well. These kids today have no, or not nearly enough consequences when they behave badly. We used to punish too much, and unfairly, and now the pendulum has swung too far the other way. Even special needs kids have to realize that they have to live by societies rules. I work with these kids on a daily basis, and have been taught restraining techniques, and attack avoidance techniques as well. The legal issues of restraint and self defense are OTOH as convoluted as a bowl of spaghetti. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by bill67 on 05/08/12 at 09:53:52 Sue for lifetime lost of wages :o :o And people wonder whats wrong with this country Two many free rides. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by greenmonster on 05/08/12 at 10:28:29 Bring back corporal punishment within the school system. Be sure to have it supervised to prevent abuse. Yeah some kids got thwacked when they didn't need it but society on the whole was more respectful when the back of your hands reminded you that being rude was unacceptable. Reasoning with a child works well if the child has been reasoned with and well trained from birth, unfortunately in today's society most children are handed off to to the system asap so that their parents can go back to their career, and then parents demand that the system do all the raising without giving them the tools required to raise a child properly. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/08/12 at 10:31:27 I also get somewhat tired of every badly behaving kid being labeled "special needs". To me, that term should be reserved for the truly physically and mentally handicapped. And, contrary to modern politically correctness I question whether a kid who is actually "special needs" should be integrated with normal kids, or taught spearately, like they used to be. Often putting them in a situation that is winless benefits neither them, nor the normal kids. Brats aren't "special needs", except that they have a special need for a good spanking. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by arteacher on 05/08/12 at 10:47:25 4D46434319182F0 wrote:
Bill: A number of years ago a couple of grade 8 girls who didn't like their teacher got together and made up a sexual abuse story about him. He was relieved of duties with pay until his court date, where the girls admitted making the story up. Even after that, parents of other kids at the school refused to send their kids, and he was discharged. He was unable to get a teaching job anywhere after that. 5 years (at least) of post secondary education wasted. He couldn't sue, as the girls were under 12 years of age and deemed "not responsible" and Ontario law did not at that time have provision for the suing of parents for damages that their kids caused. What would you do? |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by PerrydaSavage on 05/08/12 at 10:57:59 I don't know the details of the case initiating this Topic, but I do feel that generally, in our Western Society, kids are under disciplined these days. Back when I was a kid, it was not uncommon for mis-behaving children to get a whack across the arse ... most times deservedly so too ... as a result, there wasn't as much mis-behaving back then as there is now-a-days. Kids today are coddled from the responsibilities of their actions and are spoiled rotten ... now don't get me wrong ... I'm not advocating child abuse, but a bit of good old fashioned discipline never really hurt anyone and probably did a fair bit of good in the long run ... |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by arteacher on 05/08/12 at 11:15:20 5D525E545F5259555245505245370 wrote:
Jerry: as usual the problem boils down to money. It is far cheaper to integrate IEP (individual education plan) into a regular classroom than to create a separate class for them. There are two kinds of IEP's, one for learning disabilities and one for behavioral issues. It is a good thing to integrate the LD kids- good for their self esteem, and for the self esteem of the other kids who help them. They generally do better when integrated. The behavioral kids, though, cause a lot of classroom disruption, which encourages some kids to "follow" the bad behaviors and p!sses off the other kids, who want to learn. Both types require support for the teacher, in the form of special training and teacher's aids, both unfortunately, are being cut back. You have a class of 28 kids, 6 who are on IEP's, with one or two of those behavioral, or both. No wonder teaching has the second highest amount of stress, second only to air traffic controllers. :o |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by bill67 on 05/08/12 at 11:23:32 I thought a prison guard had the highest stress,Wondering when it was going to be their turn. ;D |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by arteacher on 05/08/12 at 11:25:18 586D7A7A716C695B697E696F6D080 wrote:
I took a developmental psych coarse in university with a German prof. The question was asked "Does corporal punishment administered by responsible parents have a negative effect on the child?" In his Luwig von Drake accent he replied "There is no evidence off negative effect on ze child. It does, however, make ze parent feel a hellova lot better!" ;D |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/08/12 at 11:32:03 Another of my favorite dislikes - every profession and occupation today talks about how stressful their job is. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by arteacher on 05/08/12 at 11:41:29 3C333F353E3338343324313324560 wrote:
Stress is an important factor to personal health. And jobs and professions are more stressful now than ever before. Having said that, if you are one of the fortunate people who can physically or mentally punch out at the end of your work day and not take any baggage home with you (and I think I have met four or five in my life who could do that), you are way ahead of the game. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 05/08/12 at 11:51:38 I am fortunate, I guess, as I like a reasonable amount of "stress". I call it the competitive edge. I liken real stress a lot to fear - fear can be a great motivator, like in business when things aren't going well and you have to come up with plan X; or it can be debilitating, like the syndrome of the deer in the headlights. Which it is for any given person is a product of how you're trained to handle it. I tried to teach my daughter this as she was growing up. I recall once when she was in the 6th grade, and the teacher asked her why she was so alert all of the time and sometimes even appeasred to be tense, when she really wasn't tense; just very alert. Her reply was, "Mrs. Jones, life is like a dogfight and there's a Mig right behind you trying to get a lock to put a missile right up your six". This training led to a kid who was earning about $30K a year in her own business by the time she was in the 10th grade. She now owns two companies, is happily married, and is an elected official in our town. Stress, properly viewed, can be a very motivating thing. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by babyhog on 05/08/12 at 12:05:28 arteacher, my step-son had a few behaviorial outbursts when he was in about 4th grade (shortly after my husband and the boy's mother split). She wouldn't discipline him because "daddy left, he's just emotional". This resulted in him becoming IEP BD. Saddest part is once those children are removed from regular classrooms, the behavior modification becomes primary, elemental education becomes secondary. My step-son quickly outgrew the emotional issues, but it took quite a while for us to get him back into the regular classroom (because they wanted to keep him to keep their quota of children). 8th grade he was finally partially integrating into regular classes (his father and I basically forced the school into it). But by then, his basic skills were so lacking, it resulted in IEP LD. Pushed on to high school, IEP still following him, he was so far behind education-wise, he basically gave up. He is now at the end of his senior year and has spent the majority of it in night classes, since they kicked him out of his regular school for non-attendance. They say if he makes up the credits he can still "graduate", but I doubt very seriously that it will happen. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by arteacher on 05/08/12 at 12:24:03 Babyhog- I have seen this happen many times. He should never have been identified as IEP LD, as I assume he has no learning disabilities. If he has no LDs, or even if he does, even though the system has let him down, the final responsibility for his education is his. If he doesn't accept that responsibility, there is nothing the educational system, or you, can do. I have seen quite a few kids who have fallen through the cracks finally get their sh!t together and go back to school and start a career. Hope for the best. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by babyhog on 05/08/12 at 12:45:14 He is a little slow comprehending, but still very intelligent. I personally believe it is the result of the years of BD separation. I think he was in 5th grade when his father and I met. Neither his father nor mother had any idea what to do, and his mother cared zilch! He lived with us 99.9% from about 7th grade to end of 10th grade and got back headed in the right direction, then went to stay with his mother (after daddy-son fallout) and resumed the downhill slide. Hubby has now hired him for the summer, so let's hope he is headed back uphill and continues. But you are so right about the responsibility. He has to accept it. That is what we have been preaching to him for several years and it has taken him the last couple to see some light. I'm still hopeful. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/08/12 at 15:38:22 I wonder where the bomb disposal techs come in on the stress meter? |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by verslagen1 on 05/08/12 at 16:21:04 I guess they don't consider being in the armed forces a job. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by Trippah on 05/08/12 at 20:18:15 Last month a 11 year old (approximately) who was riding in a van with us (3 troubled students, a driver and I functioning as monitor) yeah I know- sorrry fire lizard, not stealiing your title. This 11 year likes to rap obscene lyrics...well this particular ride he was good the whole 35 minute ride to his house..then, he wouldn't get out of the van. AFTER talking with hi father , his psychologist, his father again, the police dispatcher (all on my cell phone) (now we have been at it for 20 minutes, the police arrive and talk him out of the van (he had been boasting how juvie was gonna be great..chickened out when the uniforms arrived.) My thought, what goes on in that house that the child would rather sit in the van rather than go into the hose with "auntie"?????? 20 years I worked for the Departmentof Mental Retardation in Mass, now a couple years as sub school bus and van driver..I'm guessing they got most of the children off the bus except for the small group in the back and the student and adult? sitting accross the aisle....and the principal comes aboard to get the recalcatrint (sp) student off the bus...gives him an order and then physically removes the child wneh he refuses..not lawsuit material given he probably pinned the squirming child on the sidewalk so he wouldn.t try to get back on the bus or bolt..and possibly get hit be another vehicle. Still, perhaps just going on with the route and returning at the end with the one child on board and trying it again might have been a smoother move. ;) |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by Trippah on 05/08/12 at 20:21:34 Of course, if this happens most every day, they need a better plan. ;D |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/08/12 at 22:02:40 I dont remember issues like this needing to be resolved when I was a kid. I dont remember all these Special Needs kids,. I dont remember more than 1 fat kid in a class of 30. I dont remember ANY autistic kids. Is my name Ronald Reagan or have things changed? |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by arteacher on 05/09/12 at 03:47:40 7F6066617C7B4A7A4A72606C27150 wrote:
They used to keep them pretty much hidden from society. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/09/12 at 08:59:14 & I think society used to make such behavior uncomfortable for the person acting out.,Kids shunned kids who acted weird.,now theres all this "Touchy Feely" stuff, Non Judging, everybody is okay,,right? Isnt that the atmosphere at the indoctrination centers? You know IM not talking about kids who are medically Broken, right? The numbers are exploding, kids are damaged, & vaccines are one of the core problems, food is next. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by Cavi Mike on 05/09/12 at 14:28:10 627D7B7C61665767576F7D713A080 wrote:
Too late. Already full of steroids and artificial flavoring chemicals. Same with the fluoride in the water. |
|
Title: Re: Not MC related - local news-wondering your opi Post by WD on 05/09/12 at 16:50:54 I have a "special needs" adopted cousin. Fetal alcohol syndrome and autism. The schools tried (once) to integrate him with mainstream students. Bad idea. The state tried to GIVE him a driver's license. Bad idea. My aunt let him move in with some other "special needs" friends... worse idea. Enough of the dumbed down touchy feely make nice BS. If the kids can't (won't) behave, and the parent are indifferent... lock them up. Not the people who have unruly untrainable brats foisted off on them by "people" more interested in money than they are their own progeny. I grew up in a hot bed of, as I call it, Steal and Squander Liberalism. Washington (the Evergreen State), which should really be called "Watchyourtongue the never mean state". You can't even raise your voice to your kids there without risking the state taking them away, to be raised as indifferent, lazy, the world owes me a living junkies. Think I'm kidding, check out the school stats for The People's Republic of Seattle (or Tacoma). Worse than Mississippi or Arkansas, neither of which are known for their school systems. Only place worse is Memphis TN. Google Memphis School Bombing... Or Memphis school Merger... It took Rome a thousand years to fall. We've done it in under 2.5 centuries. Yea us. |
|
SuzukiSavage.com » Powered by YaBB 2.2! YaBB © 2000-2007. All Rights Reserved. |