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Message started by zachap on 05/06/12 at 06:34:41

Title: Running poorly
Post by zachap on 05/06/12 at 06:34:41

I am the new owner of a 2007 S40. The bike idles great and seems to do fine under hard acceleration. The problem is that when riding at a consistent speed (partial throttle), the bike sputters and jerks. It runs better with the choke on. I have run it for quite a while to make sure it's good and warmed up the it makes no difference. I have changed the plug, checked for vacuum leaks, checked and cleaned the air filter and this week I pulled the carb apart and gave it a good cleaning. No change... The bike has 7,500 miles on it. Any ideas??

Thanks in advance

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Greg on 05/06/12 at 06:45:01

I am new here and to owning a Savage, but I had the same issue. Mine was caused by riding way too slow in high gear. I don't know if this is your issue, but it worked for me.

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by AlphaBarney on 05/06/12 at 07:21:36

How partial is the throttle? 1/8, 1/4, 1/2? What speed, what gear?

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/12 at 08:32:02

Runs good at idle, pulls hard,, couldnt hurt to try keeping the RPM up a bit higher..

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by zachap on 05/06/12 at 08:38:36

I'd say I'm at about 1/3 throttle. I'm sure it's not a result of being in the lower gear. It happens constantly when just cruising down the road in any gear. I really don't think running it along at high RPM's is the answer either. That can't be good for the engine!

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/12 at 08:43:01

High rpm is one thing, higher than lugging it is another, If youre in high gear running 20 mph, thats not gonna work, 30 mph is too slow for 5th, IMO.,

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Serowbot on 05/06/12 at 08:57:31

Specifically,... don't cruise in 5th gear at less than 45mph..
4th gear at less than 40mph..
3rd gear at less than 30mph..
40mph in 5th is lugging...

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/12 at 09:35:48

A rider should be able to feel when the thing is spinning comfortably, how it accelerates is a real clue, telling how close to lugging it is, If you can give the gas a quick 30 degree twist & it bogs or makes a clattering sound, youre running too close to lugging it, IMO. It otta just walk on.

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by zachap on 05/06/12 at 09:43:27

I'm sure it's not a lugging problem. It really is only good when I'm hard on the throttle, any other time it's jerking and missing. This is not my first bike so I'm confident that I'm at the right rpm's in the right gear!

Thanks for all the advice, keep it coming...

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Serowbot on 05/06/12 at 09:55:28

Well,.. because it idles good and pulls well at WFO... I'm ruling out spark...

So,.. you're back in the carb.. Sticky slide, or clogged pilot jet or passage...
Since you did clean it,... I'll nix the sticky slide,.. and go with pilot jet...
Pull the pilot jet, and run a thin wire through it... (guitar string, welders gauge, or electrical wire strand)... or just buy a new pilot jet... #52.5 is stock,.. or #55 if you think you might be lean... no higher if your engine is stock...

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by verslagen1 on 05/06/12 at 09:56:15

white spacer mod

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Greg on 05/06/12 at 09:56:59

Hit your local auto parts store for some Seafoam and run a tank or two. See if that cleans things out.

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/12 at 10:10:21

Arrite,, well,, thats just a good startin spot,, dont want to go into the carb to fix a problem that a wrist adjustment will fix. Now,, on to the fix,,

Yea,, what they said, time to go in & play with it, Getting those 4 screws outta the carb can be a real booger, be very careful lining up your tools.

I was just having a fit trying to get the rear turn signals off,, Took a #2 Phillips to the grinder & took the pointy end down till the + part filled the + in the screw heads at the top,, & it worked out just Fine!,,

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by zachap on 05/06/12 at 10:11:20

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Oldfeller on 05/06/12 at 11:02:01

Zachap, time that you post that you tried out one of these suggestions that was told to you and what effect it had (or didn't have) on your issues.

You are narrowed down to the carburetor section of the bike.

Now it is your turn to tell us exactly what you did and what effect it had.

While you are getting ready to drop the bowl, please check your air filter for being all butt fugly blocked up and not passing enough air to properly feed the motor. This isn't super likely because you run OK at full wick, but you gotta go into that area anyway and it is an easy enough check to do.

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by zachap on 05/06/12 at 14:26:00

OK, did the white space mod and the bike barely runs. It misses and sputters across the entire throttle range without even being under load. It won't run at all without the choke, just stalls right out. Smells like it's running really rich.

Here's everything I have tried so far:
New Plug
Check air filter
Removed petcock and blew out filter
Seafoam in the gas tank
Removed, disassembled, cleaned and reassembled carb. Checked all jets for clogs, etc.
Replaced white space with 1/2 size spacer
Removed vacuum line and ran with petcock on prime

Still no improvement. It feels like the engine is choking out when I give it a little throttle. Runs much better with the choke out.

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Oldfeller on 05/06/12 at 14:51:48

Lots of confused signals here -- it acts like it is running very rich but it won't run at all unless the choke is providing extra gasoline???

Quick questions:

How much seafoam did you put in how much gasoline?

How did you block off the vac port on the carburetor?

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Serowbot on 05/06/12 at 14:54:23

6D76747F7667170 wrote:

O
Removed vacuum line and ran with petcock on prime

You must block the vacuum tap on the carb as well...
Assuming you did,.. and still runs bad...

We have had issues before, with people accidentally filling up with diesel...
... or, even possible station putting diesel in their tanks...
So,... I recommend you drain your tank and fill up fresh...

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/12 at 14:58:01

I agreee,, time to know your enemy.. right now, its not perfectly certain iots not the gas & thats an easy thing to be certain of.

& I was wondering about how much Seafoam, too..

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Greg on 05/06/12 at 15:00:01

5147504D55404D56220 wrote:

We have had issues before, with people accidentally filling up with diesel...

Will the bike even run? Does diesel burn when the plug fires? I don't know enough about it but now am curious.

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Serowbot on 05/06/12 at 15:12:14

Reports have been,.. that it runs awful... but if the station, or you, topped a half full tank,.. who knows?...
I just think it's worth a try before you go further... ;)...

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Greg on 05/06/12 at 15:30:34

3325322F37222F34400 wrote:

Reports have been,.. that it runs awful... but if the station, or you, topped a half full tank,.. who knows?...
I just think it's worth a try before you go further... ;)...

I am not questioning your advice. I was just wondering. I see your point about topping off the tank.

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by zachap on 05/06/12 at 15:32:09

Sorry for all the confusion. The beginning of my last post was supposed to be deleted but it ended up there anyway! I had actually put it back together without the spring on the needle jet. (I'm getting really good at getting the carb off!) No wonder it ran worse!! Got it put back in but it is still running like it's choking out and hesitating. No improvement from the original problem. At this point it idles fine but as soon as I give it some gas you can hear it miss and hesitate. Gets better when the choke is on but not perfect.

To answer all the previous questions:
I did drain the tank and put in fresh gas. (Forgot to put it on the list!)
I plugged the vacuum tap on the carb when I tested for vacuum issues.
I'm sure it's not diesel fuel in the tank!
1.5 oz of Seafoam into a half full tank of gas.

Again, these are the things I've tried.

New Plug
Check air filter
Removed petcock and blew out filter
Seafoam in the gas tank
Removed, disassembled, cleaned and reassembled carb. Checked all jets for clogs, etc.
Replaced white space with 1/2 size spacer
Removed vacuum line and ran with petcock on prime

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Oldfeller on 05/06/12 at 21:15:36

Here's a thought. Look at your petcock lever while it is in "Prime" like you have been using it -- notice that little cast-in-place arrow pointer symbol on the lever itself, where is that little cast-in-place arrow pointing towards?

The little arrow is the function indicator, not the lever itself.

Yet one more reason we all tend to hate the stock vac actuated petcock. If he got caught out by this nasty little misdirection that is another whole set of repairs caused by the inherent flaws & defects in the stock vac actuated petcock arrangement.

I am beginning to get reluctant to even talk to newbies about their "funny running issues" unless they have removed the stock vac petcock completely. Can't seem to separate the different layers of petcock woes from the real carb issues that they may also have.

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by 2stroketim on 05/07/12 at 08:47:32

2A3133383120500 wrote:

After reading all the replies, here are my thoughts:

You don't seem to be a NOOB as someone suggested.

What kind of gas are you putting in? Try to run E free if you can. If you can't, run 91 or better. You'd be surprised in the difference.

I think you may need to clean your main jet again. I would spend the 3 bucks on a new one.

I would think it's a pretty simple issue, and maybe when you cleaned the carb you missed a little in the jets.

I can't imagine that you need to add spacers or a different spring or stand on your head while starting.......

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by zachap on 05/07/12 at 14:25:32

Well, got home from work today, pulled the top off the carb (I was able to do without taking the carb off the bike) removed one of the two washers I had put on the needle so now I'm at about 1/4 of the size of the original white washer. Put it back together, fired it up and it runs very nicely! Just got back from a nice 15 minute ride with no issues!!

Thanks so much to everyone for the great advice. I hope I can return the favor one day.

Happy riding! :D

Title: Re: Running poorly
Post by Routy on 05/07/12 at 16:26:30

I should have gotten in on this earlier maybe.
The way the problem was originally explained, was EXACTLY like mine was when I bought it used w/ 3k. After reading a lot of info here, I knew my best shot was the white spacer mod. And like I posted a hunered times, it fixed it 99.99%. I'm glad it fixed your VERY SAME problem too.

Its just too bad that they (whothehellever) did away w/ the notch adjustment in the metering rod. I have never had a bike yet where the light load throttle section didn't need adjusting.