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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Front suspension bottoming out. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1335979365 Message started by arteacher on 05/02/12 at 10:22:45 |
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Title: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/02/12 at 10:22:45 I had to do a couple of quick stops today and the front suspension bottomed out. I can think of three remedies: Thicker oil- I have 10 wt in them now. More oil. Stronger springs. What should I try first? :-? |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by greenmonster on 05/02/12 at 10:45:06 I'd start with the cheapest and work up. But that's my uneducated opinion. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by Serowbot on 05/02/12 at 11:01:28 1/4" of washers on top off the fork springs... Thicker oil will effect rebound more than compression... |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/02/12 at 11:10:21 Serow- I've got an inch of spacer over the top of the tube already and I don't think I could get the caps on with any more, but i will try if you think it will fix the problem. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by Dave on 05/02/12 at 11:24:31 What do you weigh? That might make a difference on what the correct answer is. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/02/12 at 11:47:18 250. Progressive offers a fork spring for my application for $92. Would this help? EDIT: ordered the progressive springs. Also: the tubes in the chopper kit are Yamaha '95 Virago 1100 cc. The Yamaha specs show two oil levels, one for US and one for UK. They also say that "if you hear a clicking noise on rough roads or hard braking increase the amount of oil to 409 cc" (UK model, up from 389 cc) |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by verslagen1 on 05/02/12 at 13:20:31 I'd try thicker oil. or more oil. More oil reduces the amount of air space. Can act like air springs. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by Serowbot on 05/02/12 at 15:34:43 Forgot, you had the extended front... Try thicker oil,.. can't hurt... |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/02/12 at 16:09:47 How thick? I only wanna pull those tubes off once. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/02/12 at 16:38:21 Lean back? |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by baker87 on 05/02/12 at 18:54:07 stronger springs will work... i would try 15 weight... but thats just my opinion... my bike has serious suspension dive when i hit the brakes, it is 1 1/2 from bottoming out... i plan to upgrade the springs when the seals go out... and i will run 15 weight, but i want it stiff as possible.. 4C47474E424D4C5657230 wrote:
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by bill67 on 05/03/12 at 04:25:11 2137203D25303D26520 wrote:
Thicker oil effects compression more than rebound.Smaller holes on the compression damping. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by Spamy on 05/03/12 at 11:08:42 Id try heavier fork oil to begin with. Im not sure what is stock (maybe 15w), so maybe try 20w. That will slow down the compression a bit. You can increase bottoming resistance by adding more oil also, but If you do too much you will blow out your seals. If that doesn't work then get new springs. That would be my path. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/03/12 at 16:35:02 515A5F5F0504330 wrote:
Thicker oil effects compression more than rebound.Smaller holes on the compression damping.[/quote] Klotz? (sorry...couldn't resist ::)) Also- I am looking at the damper and there is only one set of holes that function for both compression and rebound. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by bill67 on 05/04/12 at 06:33:20 I haven't check these dampeners but I'm sure their are 2 sets of holes,I use Klotz 15 wt. fork oil. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/04/12 at 08:35:14 Ive never messed with the forks, but it looks like a hassle. I wouldnt want to go back, ever. I dont have even a clue about this, so Im just gonna ask,, Is this when a guy should go ahead & put new seals in? |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/04/12 at 13:34:03 There are 4 4mm holes in the bottom of what is essentially an open tube. The oil can flow both ways through the holes, so it is the same for compression and rebound. The difference is that the spring hinders compression and assists rebound. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by 87thumpR on 05/04/12 at 13:38:53 I was thinking of servicing my forks, and wondering what the best oil would be? I have all stock everything on the front end. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/04/12 at 13:43:15 Here we go............ a fork(ing) oil war! ;D |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/04/12 at 13:49:16 47585E5944437242724A58541F2D0 wrote:
Yep... seals, dust seals, seal clips, and bushings. None of this stuff is expensive, and the only difficulty is getting the damper bolts out. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by built2last66 on 05/04/12 at 19:45:29 Arteacher just hang in there for a year, when I'm out of motorcycle school I'll help ya out brother... I'm not joking |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/05/12 at 03:46:06 382F33362E68363B292E6C6C5A0 wrote:
Ahhh.....you'll be too busy fixing hurlys. ;D |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by ralfyguy on 05/05/12 at 07:28:37 What is the standard fill level if I was to remove the caps to check? Also where to buy fork oil? Does Auto Zone or O'Reilly's carry that? |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by built2last66 on 05/05/12 at 07:31:11 4E45454C404F4E5455210 wrote:
Ahhh.....you'll be too busy fixing hurlys. ;D[/quote] I'm not gonna work on Harloleys really... |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/05/12 at 07:43:24 4B58555F405E4C40390 wrote:
Service manual says: Frame # up to 103407-441 ml,103408 and after-447 ml. With the fork vertical, compressed, and the spring out the level should be 75.0 mm from the top of the fork. Stock oil is 10 wt. Any bike shop will carry it. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by ralfyguy on 05/05/12 at 07:54:11 7E75757C707F7E6465110 wrote:
Service manual says: Frame # up to 103407-441 ml,103408 and after-447 ml. With the fork vertical, compressed, and the spring out the level should be 75.0 mm from the top of the fork. Stock oil is 10 wt. Any bike shop will carry it.[/quote] Thanks for the info. I was just hoping that there was a way to check without having to remove the forks. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by bill67 on 05/05/12 at 16:36:52 You don't have to remove the forks just get the front end up and off the floor. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by WD on 05/06/12 at 04:47:38 Cheater method with forks removed... Drain over night hanging upside down. Place on floor, stand upright, compress upper tubes into lower. Fill with oil of choice (I used Type F ATF) to top of upper tubes. Extend forks, bolt back into place. Almost as good as a decent (read springer) front end. Almost no brake dive. Note: Ford Type F automatic transmission fluid CAN eat the inner seals. Dexron/Mercon Type 3 will not. Both are heavier weight than the stock fork oil and a whole lot less expensive. Save the fancy stuff for other toys where fork tunability is more critical. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/12 at 08:40:49 4655110 wrote:
People who have no experience with such things have nothing to go by BUt the manual. Experience pays dividends, cutting costs & doing less labor to accomplish the same task are great dividends. If I was doing this job, right here is where Id lay the manual down & go with what some old dude who has messed with things says. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/06/12 at 10:41:48 617E787F62655464546C7E72390B0 wrote:
People who have no experience with such things have nothing to go by BUt the manual. Experience pays dividends, cutting costs & doing less labor to accomplish the same task are great dividends. If I was doing this job, right here is where Id lay the manual down & go with what some old dude who has messed with things says. [/quote] My grandfather used to say "you have to learn the rules before you can break 'em.) Kind of applies here too. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by WD on 05/06/12 at 16:18:25 Too true. And going by the book the first time is a good way to learn the components. IF the book is right. And I'm NOT old (will be 40 in July). >:( |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/06/12 at 20:38:16 "Old"?.. Ehhh,, sorry about that,, High Mileage? Experienced? & yea,, before someone starts trying to go fast, they need to go thru the processes carefully, learning whats what & where it all goes,& Booy Howdy,, that oil pump drive gear is Right There, just inviting someone to mess up. Dang thing almost bit me,,cuz I wasnt looking at the manual,, but I looked & saw it just wasnt right, |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by bill67 on 05/10/12 at 09:17:45 You can take off the fork caps,Drill a hole in the middle of them,Then tap the hole for regular air valves that will screw in,5 -12 pounds of air is all you need in them. You can't put to much air or you'll blow out the fork seals. I did it to a 1975 Suzuki 750 water cooled 2 cycle.It worked good . |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by ralfyguy on 05/11/12 at 04:59:53 My buddy had this on his '82 Honda Nighthawk. Every time we went for a ride, he aired up his front fork. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by bill67 on 05/11/12 at 06:14:01 The pressure stays in the fork you don't have to air it up all the time. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by ralfyguy on 05/11/12 at 06:47:24 Well seems as the bike was old, it didn't hold the pressure good anymore. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by built2last66 on 05/11/12 at 07:19:32 Get air ride suspension forks and call it a day... ? |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by spacepirates on 05/11/12 at 08:14:47 I've always been a fan of front-end swaps. I'm in the middle of one now for another bike (not yet completed, decided to paint parts in the meantime...) http://www.allballsracing.com/index.php/forkconvertion can help you find bikes with the same (or workable) steering stem bearing sizes. Pick a bike that is heavier or built to handle harder suspension loads (like a big cruiser or a sport bike) and swap everything from the neck forward. You can get a brake upgrade at the same time! This would probably be a bit extreme though. If you got lucky you might be able to find a good front end on your local craigslist or ebay for a few hundred.... |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by Serowbot on 05/11/12 at 08:40:35 5142060 wrote:
Old is 15 yrs older than whatever age you currently are... it's gonna' stay there,.. 15yrs out, your whole life....:-?... ATF, is about 13wt... and excellent for forks... |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by bill67 on 05/11/12 at 08:56:52 30273B3E26603E3321266464520 wrote:
What is air ride suspension forks. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/11/12 at 13:30:26 03080D0D5756610 wrote:
What is air ride suspension forks.[/quote] Also known as cartridge forks. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by greenmonster on 05/11/12 at 13:46:24 That's not really much of an option though is it? Didn't you just swap this front end? |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by bill67 on 05/11/12 at 15:47:49 4A414148444B4A5051250 wrote:
What is air ride suspension forks.[/quote] Also known as cartridge forks.[/quote] I've had to Suzuki's with air forks they are nothing more than having a air valve on the fork caps.Just like I talked about making your own. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by verslagen1 on 05/11/12 at 15:58:39 Do you guys know why they specify a certain level of oil? Let's see... the top is capped... it has seals on the tubes... oh! I know... I know! it acts like an air spring at full compression, but not at rest. Add to the oil level, pressure at full compression will go up. Add an inch of oil and try it out, don't go nuts and fill it up to the top, you'll blow your seals out for sure. You must have enough air space to fully compress the springs and then some. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/11/12 at 16:19:46 Put it all back together yesterday, took it for ride on some bad roads today (they are not hard to find around here) and the bottoming out problem is solved. I did not try to stand it on it's nose, mind you, but I couldn't get it to bottom out. I put a wire tie on one fork to measure travel and measured 4 ". How I did it: 1" more fork oil, Progressive springs, and a seal on the fork cap bolt. The ride is firmer and it feels more solid in corners. Finally! :) :) |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by bill67 on 05/11/12 at 16:29:08 Where did you get the progressive springs.I would think 1 inch more oil would be to much. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by arteacher on 05/12/12 at 03:39:46 343F3A3A6061560 wrote:
Got them from Progressive Suspension. Don't forget- these are not the stock forks. They are '95 Yamaha Virago forks, which are 4" longer, and came with the rake kit. There were two oil level specs, one for US and one for UK. When I originally filled them I used the US spec, not knowing they were UK spec forks. The difference was an inch (about 15 cc) more oil. |
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Title: Re: Front suspension bottoming out. Post by bill67 on 05/12/12 at 06:02:24 343F3F363A35342E2F5B0 wrote:
Got them from Progressive Suspension. Don't forget- these are not the stock forks. They are '95 Yamaha Virago forks, which are 4" longer, and came with the rake kit. There were two oil level specs, one for US and one for UK. When I originally filled them I used the US spec, not knowing they were UK spec forks. ThOe difference was an inch (about 15 cc) more oil. [/quote] OK I forgot they weren't stock forks. |
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