SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Engine troubles after sitting /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1333455847 Message started by AlphaBarney on 04/03/12 at 05:24:07

Title: Engine troubles after sitting Post by AlphaBarney on 04/03/12 at 05:24:07 Hey all, Just got the bike back together after stripping it down to paint the engine, frame, and tins.  I'll post pics later, but now I have an engine issue.  I pulled the engine to paint it after draining the oil, and now that it's back together (~3months later) I got her to start up pretty easily, but am hearing some rubbing noises like the piston is rubbing on the cylinder that are louder and more metal-on-metal sounding than I'm used to hearing.  It's more pronounced at higher RPMs, and I'm worried that I am going to seize the engine if I just keep running and thinking it will eventually resolve itself when more oil is recirc'd around the engine. After reassembly, I did a full oil and filter change with 4-stroke 10W-40 that I've been running since I got it. So it isn't an oil incompatability issue. Has anyone ever experienced this?  I am thinking I might try to spray some WD40 or liquid wrench down the sparky hole to add some lube to the piston on the upper end of the jug.  Is it alright to do so?

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by bill67 on 04/03/12 at 05:49:03 I would put some Sea Foam in the engine oil to clean it up.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/03/12 at 07:22:14 WD 40? No thanks, I wouldnt want that stuff in the cylinder,if I was gonna do anything like that, Id use the same oil thats in the engine now, just dont put the plug back in it,& dont put much in,, IDK what it would help, really, but as long as you dont hydro lock it & wreck the rod or starter gears, it wont hurt, I wonder if the oil pot under the cam wasnt empty because you had it on its side & maybe you hurt the cam & lifters..Id drain the oil into a clean container, plastic/aluminum,, non magnetic,,& run a magnet thru it, Autopsy the oil filter.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by verslagen1 on 04/03/12 at 08:21:08 did you paint it assembled or apart? what covers did you take off?

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by AlphaBarney on 04/03/12 at 08:44:13 I took both the generator cover and the clutch cover (side covers off) to clean, and reassembled before painting.  Did not disassemble anything else. Both the intake and exhaust ports were covered pretty well with paper and tape throughout the process, so I don't think anything got in there. Note:  The engine really sounds pretty normal at idle, but once you get to about 1/4 throttle and up it gets that noticeable sound.  It isn't the valves because those sound about the same.  I rode it around about 5-10 miles yesterday and the performance other than that was normal, if not better than before taking it all apart. What would hurt the cam/lifters to be damaged?  The bike did lay down once during disassbembly when the lift slowly lowered itself overnight...stupid me forgot to lock it in place and as the temp fell so did the bike...that put the engine on it's side, but there was no impact to the engine itself as the tins and the bars took most of that fall.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by verslagen1 on 04/03/12 at 09:10:13 I was worried you took the head cover off and got something stuck in the oil channel. But still could be an issue.  I'd take off the front valve cover and check for oil in the cam bath tub.  maybe even a quick start her up/shut down... oil should be flying out of there.  You can also loosen one of the head cover bolts and oil should squirt out.  right rear side with a sealing washer. The other possibility (and more likely) is the stator magnet picked up something. You might want to take that cover off to check. What side did it fall on?

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by AlphaBarney on 04/03/12 at 10:59:36 It fell over onto its left side, but the generator cover and magnet were off already.  I'll check the issues mentioned when I get home to ensure oil is making its way up to the valves. Thanks for the responses guys.  I'll update again when I get that done.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by Oldfeller on 04/03/12 at 11:24:38   Reality check here -- gen cover was off (stator goes with the cover) and the bike fell over on to the rotor magnet.   If your garage is like my garage, there was all sorts of small (drill swarf style) stuff there to get picked up by the magnet. When you take the cover off, remove ALL the magnetically attracted debris and check for impact/rub damage to any rotor wires or windings.   Check for any impact marks or rub marks on the little electronic pickup that fires the electronic spark system. ======================================= Right side cover came off too -- lots of ways to interrupt the oiling system as it runs through the top gallery on the side cover.   Did you use a stock gasket?  Did you use a lot of goop on that gasket?   We have seen engines killed by incorrect gasketing around that top gallery and we have seen the small oil passage that leads to the head stud gallery blocked by lumps of goop that got loose ....

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/03/12 at 11:24:51 OIl now is a good thing,, but oil at startup is what Im worried about,, IDK if layin on the left side would drain that pot or how long it would take to fill or if its even possible for that short time to hurt an oily cam,, I just dont know.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by AlphaBarney on 04/03/12 at 12:47:44 Ok. Update: 1)Took off the front valve cover and started it up.  After a few seconds, oil started to spray out.  From what I gathered that is a good sign. 2)Unscrewed the head cover bolt and the shaft was definitely oiled up pretty good. OF-Didn't need to replace the right side gasket, still in tact and not leaking.  Generator cover was replaced with OEM gasket and no "goop" was used.  I was told it was not necessary, and that side is not leaking either. I started it up after replacing the valve cover and revved it a couple of times and held it at about 1/4.  Didn't hear anything like I was last night from the top end.    Should I still drain the oil and remove the left side cover and clean just in case?  I thought I did a good job of keeping stuff clean, but OF is right my garage was a dusty mess, and I was worried about the stator and the magnet as soon as I saw it lying on the ground the morning after it fell.  After I stopped cursing at myself of course.  I should probably open it up to make sure it isn't scratching/rubbing/gouging, no? If I do drain the oil should I use fresh oil?  I'd hate to waste oil I just put in yesterday, but $10 is nothing compared to a busted engine I suppose...

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/04/12 at 11:10:25 Did you inspect/clean the magnet & such before you stuck it back together? If I had any doubts about whether things inside were rubbing & wearing, I would have to drain the oil & check for metal & autopsy the filter, too.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by AlphaBarney on 04/04/12 at 13:56:23 That is my plan for Friday. Have the day off. I'll drain the oil and take off the gen cover to inspect and clean. Hopefully that is all, but I do still hear the rubbing coming from the upper end when I use the screw driver to my ear stethoscope.  It def wasn't as noticeable yesterday on the quick test ride  around the block. I'll update again once I do that. Thanks again guys for the advice. This forum was one of the reasons I felt confident enough to take it apart. I knew I had some smart guys to help me if I got into a jam.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by AlphaBarney on 04/06/12 at 07:16:09 Ok, so I REALLY don't want to write this post, but here goes... I'm pretty sure I have determined the root cause of my problems.  After draining the oil and finding it nice black with shiny flecks all throughought, I figured there was definitely some grinding somewhere.  Took off the gen cover and TADA!!  Washer stuck to the inside of the magnet between the magnet and the stator... The culprit http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/Alphabarney/017.jpg The Damage: http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/Alphabarney/019.jpg http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/Alphabarney/016.jpg http://i1186.photobucket.com/albums/z374/Alphabarney/015.jpg The consensus??  Are these parts still usable?  Can I just clean the metal flakes out of the casings, off the magnet and stator, put everything back together, sans washer of course, and replace the oil and filter?  I'm guessing the metal flakes in the oil was what was causing the rubbing in the head/piston that I was hearing.  Will that work itself out in time? Let the berating begin...this one stings a little bit on the ego.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/06/12 at 07:43:57 HOw long did it run like that? I would sure consider pulling the sides off & cleaning the crankcase out, thats a lot of metal gone off of that thing,, the good part is, the top gets its oil after it goes thru the filter, coming out of the bottom. Id think the only real danger is how much of it is in the trans. Id probably overdo it, go all paranoid & take the sides off, clean the sump, slap them on, put a fresh filter in, oil it up & run it a minute & drain it to see what comes out, Id leave that filter unless I had tons of crap, oil, run, drain,, until I stopped seeing scary amounts of garbage, & I scare easily., Just for giggles, Id have to open that old filter up to see how much crap it caught.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by AlphaBarney on 04/06/12 at 07:53:40 Ran twice.  Two ~8-10mi. trips up to 60mph...Too much for my taste, but I was NOT expecting to mess up that bad... JoG, so the plan of attack would be pull both side covers, clean clutch and gen sides and casings, new filter, new oil, wash rinse and repeat...?  I can do that.  How do I clean out the sump?

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/06/12 at 09:58:11 Ive never had the left side off & dont know how the oil runs in there,,I dont even know what spins over there & how much oil is there or how any metal got from there, into the oil, but it did,, so, theres gotta be oil passages. From the clutch side, theres several openings so you can see up in the sump, What to use,, Id start with a clean rag on a wire with a loop in it & mop out everything I could,, You know,, really,, how about this. seal it up, put a little oil in it,lean it back & forth some, not layin it over enough to put crap where it hasnt been, get the rear end up & let it sit for a few hours, let the crap slip down to the front, gonna need to get the rear end up pretty good to do that,,if the tanks full,, drain some off, Thats not aluminum you ate, is it? If you have a really serious magnet, you could work it from rear to front, on the case, sweeping the metal inside. Ever seen those magnetic aquarium cleaners? Then drain & see what ya get. Its taken me several ideas to finally find the easy way to clean up the case on mine, you may try a few things before ya find something that comforts you.. What did ya find in that oil filter & did you see sparkly stuff on the outside of it? IDK just how clean it needs to be before its safe to run it, IDK if ya hurt it, or if the transmission gears are gonna be chewin & trying to digest hunks of crap or if what you did just created small filings. Im hoping theyre small, but not so small as to slip thru the filter. Id clean the bottom emd till I got something that looked good back out, then fill it & run it for a minute or 2, then drain & see what come out,, just use cheap oil, & no need to change filters with every drain after run until youre ready to put good oil in & ride. You can tape a magnet over the oil window & look there. If you start seein crap , drain it. & it wouldnt hurt to check out Old Fellers magnet in the oil filter & a magnetic drain plug,

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by AlphaBarney on 04/06/12 at 12:42:20 Thanks,  I removed both covers and mopped up everything I could with a lint free cloth. Replaced them and installed a new filter. Got fresh oil in and ran it through for a while. The right side cover gasket ripped while I was taking it off to clean and I now have an oil leak on that side so I'm waiting on a replacement. I think I will take your advise and "rinse" the engine through with oil a few times and keep checking the filter. When I took apart the last filter to see what it caught it looked like a lot of fine particles - sandy, or a little smaller, and I didn't see any ribbons or chips in either the gen. area or the clutch/gears area.  I wiill definitely be investing in a magnetic drain plug, but short of taking the engine apart I'm not sure what else I could other than flush and monitor.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/06/12 at 13:10:51 Wouldnt take it apart,, youll be okay,, Ill bet the filter has done its job & youll sweep most of it out, Its hurt, its life is gonna be shorter,, but how much? Instead of 100,000 miles, only get 65? Just change oil frequently for a while, keep an eye on the drain plug magnet,, Its always gonna have a small beard, mine always has,, gears wear, stuff like that,, dont panic, just flush it a few times, you can do that while it leaks,,

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by AlphaBarney on 04/06/12 at 13:19:31 Thanks for talking me through this one Jog, it's much appreciated.

Title: Re: Engine troubles after sitting Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/06/12 at 14:21:57 I hope I havent sent ya wrong,, its what Id do, & change oil early a time or 2,, Id dump it after 50 miles & have a look, for sure, Its okay to run less expensive oil some, once ya get it so you feel good running it, then toss the good stuff in,If you dont get much crap, dont change the filter,.

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