SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Problems starting first time this year
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1332018465

Message started by boocifus on 03/17/12 at 14:07:45

Title: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/17/12 at 14:07:45

I tried starting her up for the first time this year and can't get her done. First the battery was dead so I replaced it. I also drained the old gas out and filled the tank. Now she will turn over but only run for a few seconds. I thought that maybe she wasn't getting fuel. I pulled the large house that connects the petcock to the bowl. With the petcock switched to On or Reserve there is no fuel coming out of this hose but if I switch it to Prime, fuel flows out the hose. Is this normal? I also noticed that if I left it in the Prime position, fuel flows out of the tube that points straight down underneath the bike. Is this normal? Any suggestions on what could be going on? Thanks in advance for your help.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by teabowl13 on 03/17/12 at 14:52:38

Sounds like your petcock is working normally.
When you turn it to "on" or "Res." the engine needs to be running before fuel will flow. It's controlled by a vacuum hose from the intake manifold that connects to the petcock.
"Prime" allows the fuel to flow all the time, but it will overflow the carb, and that's why you are seeing it flowing out of the overflow tube.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/17/12 at 15:17:29

So the tube on the very bottom of the bike is fuel overflow? Somehow I thought that was related to oil. Could it be a spark plug issue?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by verslagen1 on 03/17/12 at 16:27:52

that tube drains whatever is in the airbox.
gas coming from it is indication your float valve is stuck or has failed.
give the carb a sharp rap to knock it loose.
put some seafoam in your tank to help dissolve the varnish making everything stick.

charge your battery.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by Routy on 03/17/12 at 18:19:35

And in other words, your bike won't start........or run right because it is majorly flooding.

If rapping the carb w/ a plastic handle screw driver doesn't stop the flooding, maybe try turning the petcock back to on, which will stop the gas flow, then loosen the drain screw on the bottom of the carb bowl and drain it. This will let the float drop, which opens the valve that is leaking. Close the drain, and turn the Petcock back to prime.
Hopefully, the inrush of fuel will wash the valve free of any foreign material that was causing it to leak. In a few seconds, the bowl should fill and the float valve should shut the fuel completely off.
And if by chance this fixes the problem, give your bike a break by installing a very small fuel filter tween the petcock and the carb.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by thumperclone on 03/18/12 at 00:19:50

just my theory
temperature afffected long(long being relative to temp) term storage can evaporate the fuel outta the bowl..
1
open bowl drain any old fuel(into a safe container)
2
turn petcock to prime then close drain and turn petcock to on,remove old fuel container from area
3
now try to start

i avoid this by going out to the carriage house every couple weeks and
fire er up and let er idle till the oil comes up to tamp,usually a couple o brews depending on what side of freezing it is..
has worked fine for the last 6 winters no sea frum justa lil marvel mystery oil i run in every 3rd tank or so..
marvelhelps keep the ptcock internals from dryin out..JMO

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/18/12 at 01:01:25

Mine hasnt been started in over 2 years. I drained the bowl, got just about a teaspoon of green stuff,, foul smelling,

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/18/12 at 09:35:28

Thanks for the responses so far. What is the most effective way to use the seafoam in this situation? Into the gas tank or straight into the bowl?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/18/12 at 16:22:20

I tried the suggestion of draining the bowl and setting it to prime. Still no dice. I also removed the hose going to the airbox. The float that sits inside the carb was in the down position. I wiggled it up and down to see if it moves freely. No problems there. Im going to put a new spark plug in. If it doesn't work after that, I don't know what to do.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/18/12 at 19:01:35

New spark plug and charged up battery. She still only runs for a second or two. Any more suggestions?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by verslagen1 on 03/18/12 at 20:03:09

on the use of seafoam an ounce or two in the tank will help keep the carb clean. In severe cases, fill the bowl and let sit overnight. drain it and pour it in the tank cause it won't run on seafoam.

being that you cleaned the carb, we're only trying to clean something you missed.

how's the drain tube now?

How's your air filter?
a dirty filter will cause it to run rich and it has kept a savage from running before.

are you doing anything different from the last time it ran?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/18/12 at 20:09:03

I put a few ounces of sea foam in the tank. I haven't actually looked at the filter though. I'll give that a look over tomorrow. I'm not really doing anything different from last year. I did upgrade the jets last year. Maybe that tiny screw needs to be adjusted?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/20/12 at 03:24:40

Well, I thought I had everything worked out yesterday. I checked the air filter and it was ok so I decided to remove the carb and clean it up. Once I got everything back together she fired right up. I gave her several minutes to warm up until she would eventually idle with the choke in. I took her for a test ride and all was not well. From the start she had a nice burst of power that lasted maybe 2 seconds but then she would bog down, backfire, and almost die. I tried pulling the choke back out to half and adjust the idle screw but niether really had an effect. Any ideas at this point?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by Bubba on 03/20/12 at 07:20:48

Did you check the carb boot for cracks? Is the Vac line old and cracked? Did you try running it on Prime? Did you check the jets to make sure there wasn't any crud blocking them? How does the spark plug look?
Just throwing out some ideas...

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/20/12 at 07:25:02

I installed a brand new spark plug. I did try setting it to prime and blocking off the vaccum hose and nipple like others have suggested. This actually seemed to make it run worse. When I took the carb apart, everything seemed pretty clean. Not sure exactly what you mean by "carb boot".

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by Bubba on 03/20/12 at 11:50:07

the rubber tube that runs from the carb to the airbox (if you have an airbox). I once tried to run my bike without the air filter at all and it ran like what you're describing. Sucking too much air...or at least a different amount of air than what I had jetted for.
Have you ever changed the jets?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/20/12 at 12:25:18

I upgraded the main jet two years ago with the kit from Lancer. It has run fine up until this point. Maybe I should take another look at the filter however. Not something that I have changed on a regular basis. Maybe check the TEV also?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/21/12 at 20:41:07

I think I might not a new carb at this point. I have pretty much stripped the air mixture screw making adjustments. I feel like I am so close to getting it but so far away. She idles just fine but when you give her any gas she bogs down, backfires, and spits flame out of the tailpipe. Does that mean she is running extra rich?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by Routy on 03/22/12 at 04:40:43

First of all, no part of an air filter is going to affect idling or low speed running in any way..shape or form,......neither is main or midrange jetting.

Symtoms you're having could be anything from valve adjustment, valve timing, (cam chain) ignition timing, or a very lean fuel problem.
If I had to guess which, I shouldn't, but I guess I'd call it out to be a carb problem.

What happens when you choke it while opening the throttle,......does that help or hinder ? Then take it from there.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/22/12 at 08:06:18

She does idle faster with the choke out at 1/2 and even faster out at full but the problem still persists. Give her gas and she bogs down after an initial burst. Subsequent revving decreases the amount of burst so that by third rev she instantly bogs down. I refilled the bowl with seafoam last night and will try her again after work.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by verslagen1 on 03/22/12 at 08:10:41

take the air filter off as a test and she how she runs.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/22/12 at 11:14:42

Removing the air filter doesn't provide a noticeable change. Kinda surprising because I expected it to.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/23/12 at 06:25:30

The only thing I can come up with at this point is that there may have been a small amount of old gas left in the tank that mixed with the new gas. Or maybe the new gas wasn't good. I'll replace the gas this weekend and see what happens. I also rode her around a bit yesterday to see if running her around would help. I noticed that with the choke all the way in, she would die very quickly. As I moved the choke further out I could give her more throttle before she bogged down.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by Bubba on 03/23/12 at 07:23:41

I think I'd double check that main jet...could be a piece of crud blocking it.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by dehydratedH2O on 03/28/12 at 22:06:39

I hate to thread crap, but I think I'm having the same problem with my roommate's bike. When he first bought it, it had been sitting for a while and ran, but not well, so we cleaned the carb. Shortly after that, it started running worse -- dying when slowing down for lights, backfire, sputtering, flames, etc. I accidentally killed the battery one night, and when I charged it back up I couldn't get it running for more than a few seconds again. Now I can't even get it to start (though it is certainly trying to), but it slowly leaks fuel into the airbox and onto the ground. It emptied its own full tank just sitting in the driveway for a week or two.
I had my roommate order a DynoJet kit thinking it's a clogged/broken jet or maybe we messed something up when cleaning the carb. It sounds from this thread like I'm on the right track. Am I? Should I also get him to replace the carb boots and the vac line? If so, where's the best/cheapest place to get them? I'm going to make him buy a fuel filter, as well - what kind should he get/where should he buy it? (I'm guessing just a cheapo from autozone will do.)
Somewhat offtopic: the bike has a Supertrapp pipe, but no actual disc-muffler thing on the end of it. I'm guessing, then, that it's just acting like a straight pipe? Is that okay for the bike?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/12 at 03:16:45

Usually, if I work on something & it changes, I figure I did it.

KInda defeats the purpose of a S/Trapp to run it that way. donut?

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by boocifus on 03/29/12 at 04:48:30

I still haven't got her running right although I'm at a point where I won't be able to work on it for awhile. My back has been getting worse over the past couple of weeks. Im scheduled for back surgery on Monday so it will be some time before I recover and get back to it.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by dehydratedH2O on 03/29/12 at 07:52:07

435C5A5D40477646764E5C501B290 wrote:

Usually, if I work on something & it changes, I figure I did it.

KInda defeats the purpose of a S/Trapp to run it that way. donut?

yeah it does, but it's how he bought the bike. he's looking at another can because the screw holes to fit the discs are rusted out.

Title: Re: Problems starting first time this year
Post by verslagen1 on 03/29/12 at 08:18:56

6E6F62736E786B7E6F6E4238450A0 wrote:

You need to check your petcock, should stop the flow when off. check the vac line for fuel, shouldn't be any fuel. And you need to replace the float valve.

Quote:

I had my roommate order a DynoJet kit thinking it's a clogged/broken jet or maybe we messed something up when cleaning the carb. It sounds from this thread like I'm on the right track. Am I? Should I also get him to replace the carb boots and the vac line? If so, where's the best/cheapest place to get them? I'm going to make him buy a fuel filter, as well - what kind should he get/where should he buy it? (I'm guessing just a cheapo from autozone will do.)

There's one there I like, kinda big, but ends at a right angle so feeds right into the carb.

Quote:

Somewhat offtopic: the bike has a Supertrapp pipe, but no actual disc-muffler thing on the end of it. I'm guessing, then, that it's just acting like a straight pipe? Is that okay for the bike?

A supertrapp with no disks will give you lots of tuning problems besides johnny law coming down on you. It'll run very lean. So unless you put in a big disk... you need to figure out some way of closing it off a little. I think I would screw a plate on the back to close it off completely and drill a pattern of 6, 1/4" holes initially. And you can make them larger to suit.