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Message started by Wake51 on 03/07/12 at 18:52:03

Title: Running Rich?
Post by Wake51 on 03/07/12 at 18:52:03

I've encountered an odd situation. Last summer I installed the HD Dyna muffler and re-jetted to 55/152.5. The bike ran a tad on the rich side but I anticipated adding a cone filter.

This winter I took the bike apart, fixed the oil leak and added the cone filter. I also threw in a new iridium plug. Well now that it is all back together it doesn't seem even close to running properly. It starts easily but doesn't idle well at all. It kinda gallops and idles inconsistently. It also backfires a lot when given a little throttle, some of them sound like a rifle going off. I assumed this would signify a lean condition, but when I checked the plug it already had a lot of black soot it like was running rich. Also, when I applied choke (richen) the bike wanted to die. I put in the 52.5 pilot to see if that would improve it, and it definitely reduced backfiring but did not eliminate it. It smoothed the idle a bit too, bit it still doesn't sound healthy.

I'm very confused and frustrated by the situation... as from what I understand 55/152.5 should have me in the ballpark for the equipment I have on it. I do have a raptor petcock installed and I live in Missouri so I'm not at any sort of extreme elevation. I adjusted the valves back in October.

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by Savage_Rob on 03/07/12 at 19:26:11

First make sure you have no exhaust leaks, then do your carb tuning from scratch. That always worked for me.

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by built2last66 on 03/07/12 at 19:31:12

Sounds like your head pipe gasket might not be sealed, did you replace that when you took it off add the Dyna? Did you try fiddling with your idle screw? Also, the white spacer mod may help...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1104205157

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by Wake51 on 03/07/12 at 20:12:16

I'll have to re check for exhaust leaks. I checked the head and I'm positive I didn't have a leak there. I'm also pretty sure that I eliminated the leak at the joint.

I did fiddle with the idle mixture screw. The plug showed lean, so I went down a size to the 52.5. Still idled like crap, be it t better, even with it all the way in. So I tried turning it out all the way. This smoothed the idle, but I had to bottom out the idle screw on the choke side to keep it running at an RPM that clearly was below the 1,000 rpm thresh hold.

That's what gets me, is the bike isn't given me clear signals if it wants to go lean or rich. I figured maybe that in itself would be a clue to someone if there is a problem that I'm not seeing outside of tuning.

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by Retread on 03/07/12 at 20:25:44

Seems to me you need to step her up a tad, go to a 155, screw your mixture in to 2 turns.. I'd much rather be rich than lean..

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by Bubba on 03/08/12 at 07:30:23

Go back to where you were on the jets and air/mix (meaning put the original stuff in), then start with the white spacer mod (test it), then start on your pilot (test it), then start on your main jet (test it).
I concur with Savage Rob

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by Serowbot on 03/08/12 at 08:04:19

Is the vacuum tap on the carb still well sealed off?...
If so,.. the needle slide may be sticking..

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by Routy on 03/09/12 at 05:28:29

Quote:
I've encountered an odd situation. Last summer I installed the HD Dyna muffler and re-jetted to 55/152.5. The bike ran a tad on the rich side but I anticipated adding a cone filter.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IMO the mistake made here was to do the muffler mod, and the rejet at the same time. It may not have even needed a rejet.
Just doing the muffler mod would not change the basic running/idling,.....not to say it wouldn't be running on the lean side.
And to think you would correct a noticeable rich run condition by changing to a cone filter,.....thats not going to happen.

I'm w/ others, bring the carb back to where it was while it was running correctly,..... and thats only if it ever was running correctly. Then make mods only after you are sure of what it needs,.....by testing,......doing a plug read etc.
The white spacer mod should only be done if you have a lean spot in the low to midrange light throttle position. In other words,....if it runs better w/ the choke on 1-2 clicks, a spacer mod will probably correct it.

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by LANCER on 03/09/12 at 09:53:09

03353F316165540 wrote:

I've encountered an odd situation. Last summer I installed the HD Dyna muffler and re-jetted to 55/152.5. The bike ran a tad on the rich side but I anticipated adding a cone filter.
A #55 pilot jet is too rich for a stock engine with just a Dyna muffler and cone filter. The #52.5 should work for you IF the exhaust has no air leaks AND the carb passageways are clean. It ran very rich (black plug) before with the #55 pilot and could very likely have crud inside the carb. When you did the winter maintenance did you take apart and clean out the carb ? ?

This winter I took the bike apart, fixed the oil leak and added the cone filter. I also threw in a new iridium plug. Well now that it is all back together it doesn't seem even close to running properly. It starts easily but doesn't idle well at all. It kinda gallops and idles inconsistently. It also backfires a lot when given a little throttle, some of them sound like a rifle going off. I assumed this would signify a lean condition, but when I checked the plug it already had a lot of black soot it like was running rich. Also, when I applied choke (richen) the bike wanted to die.
It was running rich already as you noted; the choke made it even richer ... so it died.
I put in the 52.5 pilot to see if that would improve it, and it definitely reduced backfiring but did not eliminate it. It smoothed the idle a bit too, bit it still doesn't sound healthy.
Back to clean passageways again, &/or a fouled plug from running too rich before you changed to the #52.5 pilot
I'm very confused and frustrated by the situation... as from what I understand 55/152.5 should have me in the ballpark
Nope. The #152.5 main jet should be good but not the #55 pilot. Most stock engines with a Dyna and cone filter run well with a 52.5/152.5 jet combo, and the white spacer mod. There are some variations between engines as evidenced by the reports from some of the other riders here.
* Note: Dyna and the 883 Sporty mufflers look the same on the outside but the Dyna is bigger inside and flows more air. Are you sure you have a Dyna ? ? If it is the smaller 883 muffler then that will change (decrease) your jetting needs.
-No air leaks in the exhaust.
-Totally clean carb passageways (small details make a big difference)
-As mentioned earlier by others, go back to stock jetting and start over with the tuning procedure. Set your pilot screw at 2 turns out to begin with and go from there.
for the equipment I have on it. I do have a raptor petcock installed and I live in Missouri so I'm not at any sort of extreme elevation. I adjusted the valves back in October.

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by Wake51 on 03/10/12 at 01:45:43

Roger to all the comments. I'm going to retry this Saturday afternoon.

Thus far I've tried with a 152.5 unchanged main:

The 52.5 pilot and adjusting the idle air screw, I got the results I mentioned above.

A 55 with no bleed holes, got an even rougher idle with more intense backfires, but thinking back on it the jet came out rather easily and I'm not sure I screwed it in properly.... yeah I know. So therefore...

Tomorrow I'm going to keep the 152.5 main in and try the 55 with bleed holes pilot that I had (original tune before winter) and see how that works. If that doesn't work I'll step down to the 55 and insure I have it installed correctly. My assumption tells me that ONE of these configs should get the bike within ride able range and the running like crap range that it's in. My main issue right now isn't specific tuning, it's that ballpark jets have my bike in the "Don't take onto road range" when I feel it should be on the "Safe to test but requires tuning" range. Granted I'm a green horn and maybe just outside the threshold is worse off than I thought...

IF that doesn't work, from the symptoms I'm receiving I'll trying stepping down to a 50 or 47.5. This seems counter intuitive given the info I've read on jetting based on equipment installed. (AKA Dyna muffler and cone K&N make for more less restriction and want more air) but as many have said it's based on your bike. I just have a hard time going against the knowledge I've read here when it has worked for others. But I guess I need to discover precisely what my specific bike is asking for even if it may be odd compared to the status quo.. I just don't want to burn anything up by leaning out when the norm seems to say go rich with them mods I've added.

I'll report back with whatever I find and we can (but hopefully not work from) there. All this input surely adds motivation when I see I'm not the only dude who has been frustrated before when all seems right. My friends have simply said take it to a shop and I'm pretty far out from heeding/trusting that advice given that it's a jet/exhaust leak/valve adjustment problem.

Title: Re: Running Rich?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/10/12 at 11:41:08

My friends have simply said take it to a shop ..

PHHHHHT!,, Just spend a load of $$$ & may not get it back fixed & then you wuldnt even know what had been done to itl.