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Message started by thumper on 02/03/12 at 19:05:44

Title: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/03/12 at 19:05:44

in need of some help! my names jon and im havin some issues, ive got an 04 savage bobber thats been broke down for about 6 months now. one day i was riding to work and it started to run really ruff, then it cut out, at first i thought that the cam chain had snapped, but nope. i pulled the cover off and every thing looked fine. checked spark and it didnt have too strong of one so i cleaned up the plug a bit, got good spark but still nothing. checked and it seems to be gettin gas. everything seems to be in order, but still wont fire. starter just keeps turning the motor. btw bikes got about 16000 miles on it. any help would be awsome. thanks

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by verslagen1 on 02/03/12 at 20:12:12

well you did the basics, fuel and fire... oops... what about air?
dirty air filter got the last guy.
and there's always a question... do you really got fuel?
try some starter fluid.

and where you be in case a helping hand is around the corner?

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/04/12 at 03:47:26

These things are notorious for having enough battery to spin the motor nicely & fail to fire off due to weak spark. You saw a spark generated by a free spinning engine, no compression to draw current in the starter, leaving power to spare to fire the plug. Make sure the battery is fuly charged, use some starting fluid, LIGHTLY,,, because as Versy says,, best to know you have a fuel in there to light off than wonder, & do make sure its breathing easy, it wont kill it to pull the air filter to get it started,

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/04/12 at 12:22:14

yea im thinkin i should just go get a new spark plug and air filter, ive tried using a lil bit of starting fluid, but nothing. also i do believe the stator is out, the last few weeks i was riding i was having to charge the battery up every night. i was led to believe that it would run"for a while" even with the stator out as long as the battery was charged, is there any chance that could be my whole problem? Maybe the stator provides that extra lil jolt?

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/04/12 at 12:45:04

crestview florida btw

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by verslagen1 on 02/04/12 at 14:08:38

4643425C435C492C0 wrote:

also i do believe the stator is out, the last few weeks i was riding i was having to charge the battery up every night. i was led to believe that it would run"for a while" even with the stator out as long as the battery was charged, is there any chance that could be my whole problem? Maybe the stator provides that extra lil jolt?

It will go a day w/out charging (that's probably 2 to 3 hours max)
Yes a discharged battery has caused many a problem.
check your connectors, a little corrosion makes a big difference.

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/06/12 at 09:28:38

ok so went and got a fresh spark plug, undid the intake duct to be sure its breathing, and used a lil starter fluid. but nothing, still not starting. am i missin somethin here?

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by EJID on 02/06/12 at 09:47:18

Are you absolutely positive the battery is fully charged? :-?

Just because it will crank the bike, doesn't mean it will fire it up. :(

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by spacepirates on 02/06/12 at 10:31:44

6E6B6A746B7461040 wrote:

ok so went and got a fresh spark plug, undid the intake duct to be sure its breathing, and used a lil starter fluid. but nothing, still not starting. am i missin somethin here?

You need three things: air, fuel, and spark.

Air is easy, you've opened up the intake. Fuel, is also not hard here since you are shooting in some starter fluid (it should at least fire once or twice on that).

Now to check the spark. Pull the plug, stick it in the spark cap, position it near the head and turn the starter. you should see a nice bright spark and if you're lucky, you'll feel it running through you too. don't worry, it isn't enough to hurt, just enough to wake you up a little ;)

a few years ago I had trouble starting in the cold because my battery was low. enough juice to turn 'er over but not enough to spark at the same time, so that is a legitimate concern. Even if you get a spark using the previously stated test method, the engine is a lot easier to turn over sans spark plug. maybe if you had a second one to plug the hole while testing the other out of the engine....

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/06/12 at 11:55:20

its got a fresh plug in and it seems to have good spark. whats kinda starting to worry me is that the last time it was ridden it started running very rough and then it cut out, it pretty much went from running just fine to running terrible to broke down on the side of the road within a half mile. im wondering if there is anything internal that im not thinking of that may have happened. anything with ignition timing? valves? im thinking i should open the top of the motor and get a look at the cam. im really not sure what id be lookin for tho :-/

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by spacepirates on 02/06/12 at 12:45:29

3E3B3A243B2431540 wrote:

my mistake, i should have re-read the whole thread before i started shooting my mouth off.

if you know it has air/fuel/spark and it still won't fire that doesn't leave much fun stuff. could the exhaust be plugged up?

Do you know when the last time the valves were adjusted was? Can you also verify the starter solenoid is working? I don't think slightly-out-of-spec valves could do much more than make the engine run like crap, but who knows. maybe an adjustment locknut worked itself loose. a compression test wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Put the battery on a charger and try and start her like that (if you have a charger with a "start" setting), verify your valve clearances. pulling the head is a good bit of work that we might want to try to avoid if you can, albeit it is very informative.

if you have the ability, take a video of trying to start the bike. seeing a process and hearing the result helps a lot. heck, i noticed a huge difference in how my starter sounded between batteries (going from old stock to bigcrank to mini battery). those weak battery starter sounds still haunt my dreams to this day.... :'(

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/06/12 at 12:59:49

yea im gonna have to do a compression check, i just got into the top end to check out the cam and all that, everything looked fine. honestly i couldnt tell ya last time the valves was checked, its been sense before ive owned it "i put prolly 3000 miles on it".

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/06/12 at 13:02:28

ill get it sealed up and put back together and figure out how to send a video of me tryin to start it, maybe im missin somethin thats a dead givaway, who knows

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by verslagen1 on 02/06/12 at 13:33:17

3F3A3B253A2530550 wrote:

With this statement, pretty sure you've overworked the battery and it's dropped a cell or two. Check your voltage, if you don't have over 10v while the starter is turning, it won't start... period.

pull the plug on the headlight for a little less drain.

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/06/12 at 13:47:52

ill check it out, i had the battery on a 97 i have for about a week when that one crapped out, seemed to do fine. ill hook it up and check tho, thanks man

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/08/12 at 10:39:25

how much compression should i have?

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by spacepirates on 02/08/12 at 10:59:10

Service range is 145 to 204 psi, cold.

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/16/12 at 09:48:03

ok so its time for an update for all those that have been helping me out. Did a compression check and it was at 60psi, not even enough to start the motor. So i figured it was time to tear into it and see what the hell is going on. got a buddy of mine that is helping me out with the tear down and rebuild, once we got the head off it came real clear what the problem is. the piston ring is compressed in and staying there on one side"the other side of the ring moves free but this side is stuck inside the groves and aint goin nowhere". so seems to me thats where all that compression is goin. next step is pulling the piston, clean it up, new rings and gasket set all the way up. and it should purr like a kittin, "a very loud kittin" lol. any input?

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by spacepirates on 02/16/12 at 10:35:39

obligatory and mandatory comments:
1) the "Well while you're in there..." comment about adding performance parts and/or doing other maintenance items (like fixing the head plug leak)

2) the "Did you think to..." comment about checking other tolerances and scoping out how your gaskets were holding up, making sure they were sealed properly

3) the "Wish you the best.." comment trying to provide moral support

4) the "For the children..." comment; take pictures for posterity!

yeah, think i covered the bases :D

I had "bad" compression a while back and another member (BurnPGH) helped me tear down the engine. I had burned through a gasket, but after putting everything back together had "worse" compression. you might be wondering about the quotes on all that. they are there because my compression tester was bunk, ha ha. all that work... but my gasket was screwed, so that was good. good learning experience too, minus the whole can't-ride feeling that sucks.

EDIT: I've never broken in a new set of rings, but you might want to ask recommendations on how to handle that. My first inclination at having a bike alive again would be to ride the dickens out of it ASAP, but i *know* that can't be good...

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/16/12 at 11:33:40

haha yea that cant ride my bike feeling sure does blow, luckily tho ive got this pos 97 thats about to fall apart to hold me over. i was thinking about that break in period aswell and if i do end up putting in new rings then the wheelies will just have to wait "haha yea right". I dunno tho im thinking that with the sickly amount of carbon build up thats in that engine that maybe "just maybe" ill be able to clean it all up, get them grooves in that piston cleaned n what not that maybe i could still use the same rings and just have to get new gaskets. i know that the head gasket came off in three different layers and the valve cover gasket had seen better days so im sure ill atleast need new ones of those. im just ready to have the ol bobber back out. ;D

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by Savage_Rob on 02/16/12 at 14:08:12

393A2B292F3A23382B3E2F394A0 wrote:

I've never broken in a new set of rings, but you might want to ask recommendations on how to handle that. My first inclination at having a bike alive again would be to ride the dickens out of it ASAP, but i *know* that can't be good...

Yeah. If memory serves me (and it doesn't always), the owners manual has some guidelines for a new bike. They should be pretty close, I'd think.

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/20/12 at 09:38:10

ok next question, how in the world to i get that pin out to pull the piston, i had gotten a socket to fit in the whole and tapped on it a lil, but the lil bastard done wanna budge. am i missing something >:(

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by verslagen1 on 02/20/12 at 11:05:18

you take the retaining ring out?

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by thumper on 02/21/12 at 00:25:43

yea, never mind. we ended up gettin it out, did pull the clips out but it was just in there real good. shouldnt these bikes have a wrist pin bearing?

Title: Re: broke bobber
Post by Retread on 02/23/12 at 07:35:57

You should be able to throw a little heat to the piston with a small torch, it should then come right out.. Not too much.. If that doesn't work put it in the press..