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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Weird noise coming from engine /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1327592001 Message started by Hooty on 01/26/12 at 07:33:20 |
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Title: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Hooty on 01/26/12 at 07:33:20 I have a weird noise coming from my engine. kind of a high pitched rattle or tapping. It gets more pronounced as my bike heats up. I pulled the tank off the bike and checked the valve clearances. I've never done it before, but if I did it correctly they're all within spec. I've watched a couple of videos on youtube with ls650s that have a lose cam chain and it doesn't sound like that to me. I shot a couple of videos w/ sound of my bike. My camera picks up the exhaust really well for some reason so the engine noise is kinda overshadowed. The engine noise is a good bit louder in reality. Can anybody help identify my problem? http://youtu.be/ZapGRde-B5w http://youtu.be/27UgpOTd3VI |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Oldfeller on 01/26/12 at 08:04:56 If you would kindly tell us how many miles you have on the bike it might prove helpful. Other than that, you do not seem to have very much tappet noise, nothing beyond the normal amounts. Depending on mileage, you may need the cam chain tensioner adjuster second hole, but that is based on miles and a clutch cover off direct examination, not people guessing at the noises. ================= Here are some sick engines, their noises and their causes. Your bike doesn't sound this bad, but the real proof of the pudding is taking the clutch cover off and looking at it directly. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1308708632 Also, since this is the first time you adjusted the valves, be aware that the Clymers manual has an error in it, it tells you to rotate the engine "backwards" when adjusting to top dead center. The correct rotation direction is the same way the wheels roll. This has led some to adjust the valves at TDC on the exhaust stroke instead of the intake stroke, which makes for some excess valve clearance. If you have a Clymers manual, pull up the tech post on known Clymers errors and MARK YOUR MANUAL for all the known errors. There are others. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by verslagen1 on 01/26/12 at 08:11:31 continuous or intermitent? |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Serowbot on 01/26/12 at 09:43:15 Sounds a little rusty... ;D... (kidding)... Strange the noise is more prominent on the left side... :-/... Any grey/blue smoke?... |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Hooty on 01/26/12 at 09:55:41 Just under 6,000 miles. 3,000 of those are mine that I put on the bike since I bought it about 4 months ago. I have changed the oil 3 or 4 times since I got it. The previous owner does not seem to have taken especially good care of it. Crash bar is completely covered in rust. There was a lot sand looking stuff in the oil filter the first time I changed it. Didn't see any in the oil when I drained it. The noise is constant as far as I can tell (kind of hard to hear past 40mph with the wind. It is much louder after I finish riding. When I checked the valve clearance I did notice that the bolts holding the exhaust to the engine were loose so I have tightened them back up. I have stopped riding since I noticed it in case I might make the issue worse. I don't really expect anyone to know what it is but I figured I'd post anyway just in case I got lucky. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Hooty on 01/26/12 at 09:57:49 No smoke |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Serowbot on 01/26/12 at 10:06:10 Try holding a lit match near the exhaust flange... see if it sputters... May be noise escaping from a leaky exhaust gasket?... ... a new gasket is $5 or 6 bucks... |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Oldfeller on 01/26/12 at 11:34:53 CNOIIS .... you don't have enough miles to have a cam chain tensioner issue. .... you do have enough miles to have a speedo rattle or a headlight rattle, both of which are deceiving and (especially the speedo rattle) can sound like "an engine noise". |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by verslagen1 on 01/26/12 at 11:43:37 Can't say this for sure as I can't view the links just yet. But I had a intermittent whinning sound once. Pretty sure it was a bearing for the counter balancer. When it finally let go, the CB started grinding on the bottom of the cylinder. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by thumperclone on 01/26/12 at 14:50:08 the belt guard tucks in behind the front pully cover theres susposed to be a friction pad there.. with engine off pound the belt guard with you fist not enough to hurt yourself.. with engine idleling hold the belt guard to see if sound changes good luck lets us know what you end up finding |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by verslagen1 on 01/26/12 at 19:37:52 I did hear the muted ringing. suggest you don't have anything to worry about other than a loose bolt somewhere. The headlight and speedo can make some weird noises. put your hand on various things till it goes away. then you found your culprit. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by baker87 on 01/26/12 at 20:00:31 i agree with verslagen1... although it does sound like the piston inside the engine... the rod has side to side movement on the piston pin... a buddy of mine did a digital audio sound clip of my bike... it has the dinging noise as ur second video shows and it has the occasional whine... i found the clutch basket is out of balance and it makes a high pitch noise... not exactly sure what it is, but there are some guesses... i would just ride it :-/ |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Savage_Rob on 01/27/12 at 07:16:41 I too agree with Verslagen1, especially about applying some hand pressure to things like the speedo and headlight. It was difficult fo me to tell a lot from those videos but I would lean toward the header gasket and possibly a little valve noise. I'd also be sure the valves are checked, as Oldfeller said, at TDC-I. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Oldfeller on 01/27/12 at 11:19:22 CNOIIS C...hecking N...oises O...ver I...nternet I...s S... (you plug in what suits you) |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Savage_Rob on 01/27/12 at 12:17:35 Also, spending $3 (sale price at the time, $4 now) at Harbor Freight to pick up a cheap mechanic's stethoscope was a very good purchase for me. http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/370x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_18203.jpg (http://www.harborfreight.com/mechanics-stethoscope-41966.html) |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Hooty on 02/02/12 at 05:56:41 I got a much better video of the noise. It gets worse when the engine warms up so I fired it up at lunch yesterday and let it idle for a bit. You can hear it clearly in this video. http://youtu.be/lrsx4GTW9jc Again, not expecting a "here is your problem, here's how you fix it," but suggestions give me an idea what to look for and you never know, I might get lucky. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by 2whlthrpy on 02/02/12 at 06:27:03 Valves need adjusting? I apologize if they have already been checked in this thread. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/02/12 at 06:52:57 I got a much better video of the noise. Hmmmm,,, you do, do you?? Im not exactly sure just what is wrong there,, maybe if I knew what the sound tasted like, it would help.. just a video of the sound just may not be enough, but, if yoiu havent already, Id say have a look at the valves. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Hooty on 02/02/12 at 08:50:41 I checked the valves and they appeared to be within spec without needing adjustment. However, I have done my own maintenance for years (oil, tires, brakes, etc.), but this is the first time I've done anything inside the engine so it is entirely possible I did it wrong. I'll pull the tank off again this weekend if I have time and do it again. I might make the time to give myself a break from the 3 adults 1 pitbull and 2 kids that will be staying at my house so they can go to a dog show. :o |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by 2whlthrpy on 02/02/12 at 09:21:16 WOOF! WOOF! |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by MMRanch on 02/02/12 at 20:16:30 OK Check this out ... 36 seconds into the warmed up vidio Take the crome cover off the kickstand side and see if the compression release is bobbing up and down with the noise . My first thought was the intake valve on the kickstand side. I put a spring between the compression release cable and where it hooks onto the release its self. Good Luck and let us know when ya find it. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by verslagen1 on 02/02/12 at 20:31:35 5176766D60517676190 wrote:
This one definitely sounds worse. If you can't find an external cause then it's time to go inside. check the cam chain adjuster. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/03/12 at 06:34:47 How are you listening to it? If you havent tried the old Screwdriver handle on the bone just in front of the ear trick, ya otta give that a try. YOu can isolate where a noise is coming from well that way, Feel your ear, the little pointy thing that sits right in front of the ear canal, the bone curves in about there. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Oldfeller on 02/03/12 at 08:07:19 You still have an enlarged valve clearance tapping some on the side opposite the half moon -- nothing serious, resolve to do better next time and ride it. ============================= When you adjusted the valves, when you first put the feeler gages in the gaps, was there a whole lot of open space? Did you adjust the decompression solenoid like you were supposed to when you did the valves? After the valve adjustment was done -- did the engine still run sluggishly and with poor power? Was the engine ever run "low on oil'? Does it use a lot of oil? I hope the answer to all of the above is a resounding "heck no !!" because mebbe I think I mebbe could possibly be hearing a mild head knock sound coming from some enlarged cam bearing clearances. The screwdriver or stethoscope tests would find the bearing clearance knock right around the rubber half moon or on the side opposite (where the cam bearing journals live). Answer for this very mebbe issue at the mild level that you may have it is to continue to run it if it still performs well and simply be ready for flat sanding journal refit job when the time comes. ;) Now that I've scared the pure tee hummy out of you about what could mebbe be there, here's the simple truth about the whole thing. Your bike sounds pretty much normal for an '02 that hasn't been taken care of very well. Verslagen is straining to hear a little cam chain noise and I am straining to hear a mild bearing knock. Both are about due in an '02 to some degree. You are a musician type with acute hearing and a good sense of pitch. You hear all the mechanical sounds that an engine makes normally. Savage engines with a few miles on them make noises. Old Savage riders note them and then note if they get worse over time. We save them little noises all up for the next time we have to take the covers off and THEN see what's what once we are in there. Keep oil in it. Keep the idle speed up over 1,000 rpm (keeps oil pressure up when idling). Ride it. If the noises are anything serious they will get worse over time. |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Serowbot on 02/03/12 at 08:51:46 I'm just hearing loose valves,.. possibly coming from a leaky exhaust gasket, because the noise sounds louder towards the front of the head... You didn't confuse inches for millimeters, did you?... Quote:
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Oldfeller on 02/03/12 at 09:09:10 Serowbot, he's not sure he rotated the the crank in the right direction to get TDC, he may have TDC on the exhaust stroke. He said he was gonna recheck the valves, but never actually said he did. Needs to do the decompression solenoid adjustment when he does it again (required at valve adjustment time). Young man, college age mebbe, musician (guitar?) Busy ..... |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Serowbot on 02/03/12 at 09:18:55 4A6961636069696077050 wrote:
Wish that were me... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by MeLikeBike on 02/04/12 at 18:51:51 My bike sounds exactly the same, with the same source (top of the engine)...or at least from what I can tell from the video. Mine is an '03 tha I bought with 4300 miles. I've put about another 400 so far. I took it to the local Suzuki shop to get a service, because I'm no mechanic, and haven't done anything beyond changing the oil and front brake pads and tire (with some help no less). When I took it to the shop, he thought the noise would lessen with a valve adjustment. Anyway, the mechanic did the service, which included adjusting the valves to spec. He thought it still seemed loud, so he called Suzuki about it, and played it over the phone. They basically said "that's how they sound". To me, my noise sounds a bit extreme, like something is banging in the head and it will eventually it will be a problem. But it runs great now, and there's enough "that's how they sound" on the board here that makes me thing it's fine (as long as the cam tensioner is okay, which I'll check in the springtime.) I'd love to sit in the garage with any of the experts here and take a closer look...I don't suppose any of you guys are in Pittsburgh? |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by Hooty on 04/16/12 at 16:51:42 Well I finally found the time to get greasy. Growing up and getting a job means I don't have as much time or patience as I used to for projects. I got the clutch cover off and took a look at the tensioner. It is out about 16mm. That's not great considering the low miles, but is it really enough to cause the noise? |
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Title: Re: Weird noise coming from engine Post by AlphaBarney on 04/16/12 at 18:59:13 My CCT was out about 16mm at 7000mi. (2005 S40). Seems over the years the chain has been stretching earlier and earlier. I believe I read something around here earlier that Suzuki switched manufacturers for that as of late? Anyway, did the Verslavy to make sure it didn't come apart inside the cover and cause problems and put that fear to rest. Not saying that's the problem, but something you may want to take care of when you have the side cover off and she's down anyway to prevent issues a few thousand miles down the road. |
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