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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Left over part /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1327470630 Message started by MMRanch on 01/24/12 at 21:50:30 |
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Title: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 01/24/12 at 21:50:30 http://i1076.photobucket.com/albums/w457/mikespictures1/th_440sprocket.jpg I had a part left over from the Savage today ! This front sprocket is off a Kawaski 454 (25 tooth). Guys ............. IT CAN BE DONE :o |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by Serowbot on 01/24/12 at 22:29:01 Tell me more,... tell me more... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 01/24/12 at 23:00:58 The splines are the same , the Tooth pulley part is the same (just 2 teeth bigger), The middle of sprocket is thicker. I removed (angle grinder against spinning sprocket) 25 thousands on the inside and about 800 thousands on the outside. While I had it in the Lath I trued up the side of the sprock .0010-15" just to make sure clearance was no problem. but befor I did anything to it I tried it on and it fit great. The Kawaki mounting method is with the thin splined washer held in place with two 6mm bolts and a slot near the end of the shaft. I tinkered with it for 2 hours fitting it . But thats one of the things I like to do. :) I can hardly wait to get Baby back together to try it out !!!!! :o Lancer give the misses a rest and let me know about the cam. ;D I want the best fuel millage possible. power has allways been ample , with the bigger dommed piston it should be even better. |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 01/28/12 at 11:28:29 Kuri O-Yea gear it up AND keep the belt !!!!!!! :o The one I found is for a EN500 Kawasaki , I'm glad to see there are more just like it (EN454). When you thin the middle be carefull not to take too much off the motor side or it will rub. |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by kuri77 on 01/28/12 at 11:50:40 Looking at parts list it appears that the 25 tooth pulley is available from 1985-1990 454LTD and 1990-1995 EN500 models. There are some available now on ebay. Here's one http://www.ebay.com/itm/1985-Kawasaki-EN454-EN450-454-450-LTD-front-sprocket-pulley-belt-drive-/220869911582?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item336cdf641e#ht_844wt_1268 The other one is http://www.ebay.com/itm/KAWASAKI-EN500-Vulcan-Belt-pulley-front-sprocket-belt-drive-sprocket-used-/290643493221?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item43abb3c165#ht_500wt_1283 Thanks for discovering this MM. For any one interested in what kind of change it will be I can tell you that going a couple of teeth higher on my KLR650 has made high speed riding a hell of a lot more comfortable and way fewer vibrations. Can't wait to see MM's report. Think I'll wait for his more knowledgeable critique of the mod before I tackle it though. He might end up with a few refinements. Don't see any down side here except for people who like to do jackrabbit starts and think the initial launch has been lessened a little. |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 01/28/12 at 12:20:55 The part that engages the transmision splines on the Kawasaki is wide-er than Suzuki's sprocket. Where Suzuki uses a NUT and bentable washer ,,, Kawasaki uses a sloted shaft and a splined washer held in place by two 6mm bolts. I doin't know which is better but the splines are the same and its easier to take materal off than put it on. ! I'll brobley have to wait on part from the Suzuki dealer befor I can put the head back on mine... may be a while.... |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/28/12 at 16:44:21 I doin't know which is better but the splines are the same and its easier to take materal off than put it on. ! Boy, aint that the TRUTH!!?? Ive proven that with a tape measure & circular saw several times.. |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by Serowbot on 01/28/12 at 17:42:30 Remember JOG,.. ...measure once,.. grind twice... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by vulcan2go on 02/06/12 at 16:44:56 Can you just use an angle grinder to take off the excess on the center hub, or do you need to put it in a lathe? Also did you need to move the rear axle ahead much to accomodate the new front pulley? Thanks, DJ |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 02/06/12 at 20:12:30 Vulcan2go DJ Ya know when objects are spinning its easier to get an even cut , that was the whole reason for the lathe. This ain't rocket sicence ... anyway to get the center down to about the right thickness with-out taking too much off the back side will work. Long as the nut will fit on to keep it in place ! After sliding the tire all the way forward to get the belt back on I had to adjust it back about 5/16" to tighten it up. Plenty of room in the swingarm slots ! Doin't be shy about it , there's nothing hard to it ! Just two more teeth on the front !!!!!! Yeaaaaaaaaaaa. :D |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by verslagen1 on 02/06/12 at 21:13:17 is that sprocket aluminum or steel? |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by LANCER on 02/07/12 at 02:26:11 Quote:
Here's the cam spec's for you, but there's no rest for the misses. ;) CAMSHAFT VALVE LIFT IN/EX DURATION @ .050 Stock camshaft .254/.244 224 Webcam std. .256/.256 226 Stage 1 .264/.264 239 Stage 2 .275/.275 245 Effects of duration: 220-235 => Low End Torque 235-250 => Midrange Torque 260 + => Top End Power |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 02/07/12 at 09:15:52 Versey The sprocket is steel ... I chucked it up in the lathe to cut it down but the teeth were case hardened (just dulled the highspeed steel cutter) so I switched to the angle grinder. It didn't have to be in the Lathe but since it was allready there I just put it on 320RPM and started grinding ! :D Lancer Thanks for the specs. I'll compair them to what I built mine up to and get back-with-ya , Just go ahead and act like a couple of bunney rabbits ! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 02/09/12 at 20:39:12 Lancer Let's see if I understand the Duration thing : stock is 224 ( just what is this number taken from ? ) could it be the combined duration of intake + exaust ? as in 112 degrees each ? or total time from exaust 50% open to intake 50% closed ? leaving (360-224)=136 degrees for compression and power stroke ? :-X I just mesured mine with a Dial-indicator @50% open - is about 82-+83 degrees on the cam .... Starting and finished position on the cam is the same as stock but it opens quicker and closes quicker due to fatter lobe. If it doesn't make any more sense to you than it does to me .... well I'll try it and post any noticeable changes in performance. :P |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by verslagen1 on 02/09/12 at 22:46:18 from wiki... Duration Duration is the number of crankshaft degrees of engine rotation during which the valve is off the seat. As a generality, greater duration results in more horsepower. The RPM at which peak horsepower occurs is typically increased as duration increases at the expense of lower rpm efficiency (torque).[citation needed] Duration can often be confusing because manufacturers may select any lift point to advertise a camshaft's duration and sometimes will manipulate these numbers. The power and idle characteristics of a camshaft rated at .006" will be much different than one rated the same at .002". Many performance engine builders gauge a race profile's aggressiveness by looking at the duration at .020", .050" and .200". The .020" number determines how responsive the motor will be and how much low end torque the motor will make. The .050" number is used to estimate where peak power will occur, and the .200" number gives an estimate of the power potential. A secondary effect of increase duration is increasing overlap, which is the number of crankshaft degrees during which both intake and exhaust valves are off their seats. It is overlap which most affects idle quality, inasmuch as the "blow-through" of the intake charge which occurs during overlap reduces engine efficiency, and is greatest during low RPM operation. In reality, increasing a camshaft's duration typically increases the overlap event, unless one spreads lobe centers between intake and exhaust valve lobe profiles. good graph here... http://www.compcams.com/Pages/416/valve-timing-tutorial.aspx |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 02/10/12 at 16:03:25 ::) Versey your a life saver !! what is refered too as .050" open ,,,,, I though was 50% open DURATION @ .050 Well that messed with my head ???!!??? Its clear as a bell now ! That articial explains it perty clear . But It brings up the question ????? about the scavanging effect ... The articial states: Even some of the new gases escape into the exhaust you can see how much earlier overlap is taking place and how the intake valve is open a great deal before the piston starts down. This is usually considered as a way to increase bottom end power, but as you can see there is much of the charge pushed out the exhaust, making a less efficient engine I can't help but wonder if this is why OldFeller only gets 80 miles to a tank of fuel ? and If the oppsite can happen to get more miles to a tank of fuel ? Any Ideas.. : :-? Waiting for the camchain adjustor (slide) sure is ruff ! :P |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by verslagen1 on 02/10/12 at 17:41:02 You'll get the same gas mileage with a stage 1 cam and a 95 piston. |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 02/10/12 at 18:02:18 DANG ! I want 70 mpg not 40 ... I'll glad we had this information exchange .... This requires futher investagation on my part , pardon me its time to go "information hunting" ... :o |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by verslagen1 on 02/10/12 at 18:32:19 You'll get the same gas mileage with a stage 1 cam and a 95 piston as stock |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by Savage_Rob on 02/11/12 at 09:53:18 283B2C2D323F393B306F5E0 wrote:
Yeah, that's kinda what I'm thinkin' about doing. I may even look into using one of those Kawi front belt sprockets for a touch more top end oomph. I already have a slightly oversized rear tire, which actually makes the speedo just about correct. I guess I need to look into the pricing of the Stage 1 and then maybe get 'er done before the best riding season is here. My understanding is that I need to send in my camshaft and have it worked. |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by mpescatori on 02/13/12 at 04:23:40 Come on, guys, you've hijacked the thread ! ;) What I would like to understand is... ... exactly where is the Kawi sprocket oversize vs. the Suzy sprocket ? Can we have a side-by-side pic comparison ? This find could be the golden egg of chain conversion nuts... I, for one, would love to have taller gearing for easier cruising, but either I shear the belt, or I have to disassemble way too much hardware. On the other hand, by simply replacing the sprocket pulley, we have taller gearing AND all the benefits of belt drive ! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by Savage_Rob on 02/13/12 at 06:01:26 55485D4B5B594C574A51380 wrote:
Kinda what I'm hoping for... |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 02/13/12 at 18:15:31 I'm waiting for the local shop to get my new camtentener (slide part) in so I can "Reassemble". Then I can find out how far off the speedometer is . (Mile a Minute @ 60 thing). Does the math worked out to . (23/25=92) or 8% overdrive ? Not sure thats enough but its a step in the right direction ! :D |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 03/01/12 at 15:15:11 Mpescatori Rob I got "Baby" back together and on the road this week. I've had 4 days to ride around with the larger front sprocket. The speedometer to rpm is the same of-course. but things fly by a lot quicker now. Most folks around here do 55 in the 50 mph zones , but by the speedometer at 50 I still pass everything on the road , gona have to be more carefull about that ! Speed limit 50 now means 50 on the dial ! Just a couple little teeth sure make a big difference ! The interstate is an hours drive away , but you can bet I'll do the mile a minute thing first chance I get. |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by Savage_Rob on 03/01/12 at 16:47:58 2D3F2D3F32212E2328600 wrote:
That's an option too. I don't have any machinery I'd think adequate for any of the necessary milling, etc. but maybe I could take one to a shop somewhere near or some enterprising soul on this site might decide to begin adapting them. |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by MMRanch on 03/01/12 at 21:19:00 Versy Your more than welcome to have at it. I have a 100 acres and a cow habbit, with a complete complement of machinery to keep running. Since I retired : I have to wear pull-up boots , couse I doin't have time to tie my shoes . ;D It ain't at all like I thougt it would be. Friday night is the only time not allready taken and the wife claims that. :o |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by verslagen1 on 03/01/12 at 21:51:18 :-? wad eye win? |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by Serowbot on 04/18/12 at 18:09:10 BUMP... I just got my big pulley... spent the afternoon grinding away... I'm planning on grinding the front face flat,.. (got to the point that I took the tip off my left pinky and decided to stop for the day)... Tiny nick really... ;D... I'll add some pics tomorrow... |
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Title: Re: Left over part Post by Boofer on 04/19/12 at 06:10:33 5046514C54414C57230 wrote:
Pics of your pinky? ;D I missed it, I guess, but what pulley off what year and model Kawa? I think my pulley has slack, so this may be a good way for me to go this fall when I look at it. Thanks |
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