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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1323457929 Message started by teabowl13 on 12/09/11 at 11:12:08 |
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Title: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by teabowl13 on 12/09/11 at 11:12:08 I almost posted this in RipnSht's thread, since he's ben talking about them, but realized as I was writing it that I didn't want to hijack him, so I'm posting it separately instead... I was just looking at the Ballistic Batteries online last night. Their 4-cell Lithium Ion battery looks interesting for sure. Certainly smaller than anything else, but then it gives you much lower cold cranking amps.... I was originally looking at the Mini-Battery install thread: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1259644714 I really want to mount my battery in this spot. He's using a Yuasa, YTZ7S: that has 130cca. It's 4.6 lbs, and about $100 on Fleabay. Ballistic 4-cell has 135cca; it's tiny and not too expensive ($105) ... but is it strong enough? (The replacement stock batteries have 210-220cca, depending on where I look. I'm not sure what the original factory batteries were since these all claim to be stronger than and outperform the stock battery.) RipnSht's 8-cell Antigravity battery has 240cca, but it's almost $200. Ballistic has an 8-cell with 275cca for $142.95. (it's just slightly bigger, slightly heavier than the Antigravity.) Here's my question... If the YTZ7S with 130 Cold Cranking Amps is enough to start and run the bike well, then the Ballistic 4-cell battery, with 135cca should work just as well, right? It's super-tiny and around the same price, so it seems like a much better deal, but what do you guys think? Too good to be true? If anyone has any experience with Ballistic's batteries, I'd love to hear from you... |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by BurnPgh on 12/09/11 at 14:19:36 should work fine. And cheaper than any other lithium ion battery ive seen. When my YTZ kicks the bucket I think i'll get one of those. Sufficient cca, Big crank price, wee crank size. Nice find. |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by RpNSht on 12/09/11 at 14:28:24 1E2F2B28253D267B794A0 wrote:
i went with the bigger one cuz id rather be safe than sorry but yes im sure my battery is overkill |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by verslagen1 on 12/09/11 at 18:22:16 too bad they don't have a 6 cell http://www.ballisticparts.com/products/batteries/8cell.php 8 Cell EVO 2 Dimensions: 112MM (L) x 60MM (W) x 103MM (H) Positive Terminal Location: Left Weight: 825 grams (1.81 lb) Voltage (Charged): 13.6V Amperage: 15 Pbeq A/H Cold Cranking Amps: 275 CCA Operating Environment: -18°C (0°F) to 60°C (140°F) Typical Applications: 1000cc and under multi-cylinder motorcycles and 450cc singles. 8 Cell EVO2 (100-011) - $159.99 4 Cell EVO2 Dimensions: 60MM (L) x 60MM (W) x 103MM (H) Positive Terminal Location: Left Weight: 400 grams (.885 lb) Voltage (Charged): 13.6V Amperage: 8 Pbeq A/H Cold Cranking Amps: 135 CCA Operating Environment: -18°C (0°F) to 60°C (140°F) Typical Applications: 550cc and under multi-cylinder motorcycles, scooters, and ATV’s. 4 Cell EVO 2 (100-010) - $99.99 |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by verslagen1 on 12/09/11 at 18:28:47 http://antigravitybatteries.com/?page_id=994 The Antigravity 8-Cell The Antigravity 8-cell is only a on inch wider than the 4-cell, but offers twice the power and capacity. This tiny battery is one of our most popular models. It can be used to start race/track bikes up to 1200cc, or handles street duty in bikes up to 800cc. This model is also a perfect for replacement for 350-650cc dirt bikes. 300 Pulse CA 240 CCA 9.7 Amp Hours (PbEq) 4.25[ch8243] Long x 2.2[ch8243] Wide x 3.25[ch8243] Tall 1.7 lbs For Race vehicles up to 1200cc For Street Motorcycles up to 850cc $180 |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by verslagen1 on 12/09/11 at 18:36:52 bigcrank Specifications ETX9 ETX12 ETX14 ETX15(ETX15L) Volts 12 12 12 12 Ah @ 10hr rate 8 Ah 10 Ah 12 Ah 14 Ah CCA (cold cranking amps) 120A 180A 220A 220A Terminals2 OE Dual OE Dual OE Dual OE Dual Width inch(mm) 3 7/16(88) 3 7/16(88) 3 7/16(88) 3 1/2(90) Length (terminal side) 5 7/8(150) 5 7/8(150) 5 7/8(150) 5 1/4(134) Height (includes terminals) 4 3/16(106) 5 1/8(130) 5 3/4(145) 6 9/16(166) Weight, lb(kg) 6.3(2.9) 9.4(4.3) 12.0(5.4) 11.0(5.0) |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by verslagen1 on 12/09/11 at 18:41:28 You can go with a smaller battery, but here's the catch... you won't have as much reserve. So, if the charging circuit goes out, or you flood it, or, or, or... you gonna have to push it. |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by RpNSht on 12/09/11 at 19:07:42 594A5D5C434E484A411E2F0 wrote:
my thoughts exactly ;) |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by verslagen1 on 12/09/11 at 20:07:12 That being said, I got a cheap chineese agm battery size 10 supposedly with 190 cca if it wasn't mainly a commuter and I didn't know how to push start... I'd worry. |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by Gyrobob on 12/11/11 at 12:10:55 5263676469716A3735060 wrote:
My understanding of li-ion batteries vs lead-acid, is that it is hard to get an apples to apples comparison.. li-ion batteries have much less internal resistance and will maintain something near 12v a lot longer than a lead-acid battery with the same CCA rating. IOW, if both batteries have the same cold cranking amps rating, the li-ion battery will keep the engine spinning over maybe twice as long as a lead-acid battery. Like ni-cads, though, when a li-ion battery runs out of juices it dies right now. A lead-acid battery, although it will die a lot sooner, starts slowing down more gradually. |
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Title: Re: LIHTIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by teabowl13 on 12/11/11 at 17:47:44 59676C717C717C1E0 wrote:
So, if I may over-simplify what you are saying... A Li-ion batter with 135cca could crank just about the same as a Lead-Acid battery with 220cca when you first hit the button, but the Li-ion battery is going to die off much sooner. That seems in line with what others have said above. I guess my next question should be: How hard is it to push start a Savage? It can't be too terrible, right? So maybe it's worth the risk just to see if it works out. I know that most stock batteries are way over built for their bike's needs, and are often chosen simply because they are convenient for the manufacturer to use and swap between different models. Thanks for all of your help guys! I shall confer with my builder-guy and see what he has to say... |
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Title: Re: LIHTIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by Gyrobob on 12/11/11 at 19:49:43 teabowl13 said, "So, if I may over-simplify what you are saying... A Li-ion batter with 135cca could crank just about the same as a Lead-Acid battery with 220cca when you first hit the button, but the Li-ion battery is going to die off much sooner." No. A li-ion battery would crank at full speed for the duration of what energy it had lasted. Then it would stop in a hurry. A lead acid battery with the same rating would crank at full speed for half as long and then start slowing down. When the lead-acid battery starts slowing down it will be less and less likely to start an engine because the engine would be turning over more slowly and the voltage available for the ignition system would be lower and lower. So, for the same CCA rating, a li-ion battery would have a lot more cranking performance and yet take up much less space and weigh a LOT less. I would guess that a 135 li-ion would compare well with the 220 lead-acid. The li-ion would crank the engine well for a certain time period. The larger lead acid would crank the engine well for maybe the same time period, but then would be slowing down -- less voltage for cranking and for ignition. A difficult starting engine needs full battery power. A smaller-CCA li-ion will give full power as long as a larger-CCA lead-acid battery. |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by verslagen1 on 12/11/11 at 21:32:05 Quote:
Keeping the lead-acid battery would give you the advantage of warning that it's going south. Knowing this, you can stop cranking and start pushing. |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by teabowl13 on 12/12/11 at 06:24:58 Yes, that makes sense... Thanks! |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by Gyrobob on 12/12/11 at 07:43:05 4A594E4F505D5B59520D3C0 wrote:
This is true. As always, Verslagen speaketh the truth. Everything in life and motorcycles is a compromise. -- You can use a li-ion battery (2.5" x 2.5" x 3.5") that weighs 10 ounces (less than a pound!) -- You can use a stock battery that weighs 11 lbs and takes up the same space as four of the li-ion batteries. -- For that matter you could make the battery box bigger and put a Gold Wing battery in there, and have way more reserve power. 7 x 3 x 6, 16 lbs They all will spin an LS650 motor over for a minute or more,... all have enough energy to melt the starter motor before they run out of juice if you just hold the starter button down. Yes, the li-ion will crank and crank and crank and crank and crank and then, when it starts to run out of juice, it will crank for another 20 seconds or so as it slows down and dies. The stock lead-acid battery will do the same thing, but take a minute or two to die after it starts to slow down. |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by teabowl13 on 12/12/11 at 09:38:09 I think that since my vintage roadster project is at least as much about form as it is about function, and I definitely want to keep that rear space in the frame completely open, AND I'm not afraid at all to push start a bike that is likely to be one of the lightest weight bikes I've ever owned... I'm going to go for it and try the tiny battery. Worst case scenario, I've got to push start it a few times and then upgrade to something bigger if it doesn't work out. I can totally live with that. It's all just pie in the sky right now. It'll be Spring before I'm actually riding the thing, I just wanted to know for fabrication purposes right now... Cheers Guys! |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by verslagen1 on 12/12/11 at 11:24:19 I think I would add a battery moniter. This is one time you want to know if your charger is working. |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by Gyrobob on 12/12/11 at 12:59:57 3A293E3F202D2B29227D4C0 wrote:
Great idea! There are lots of ways to do this that would have an appearance compatible with whatever your project will look like. -- Simply an idiot light that comes on below 13 volts. -- Small, old-style, ammeter or voltmeter in the back of the headlight shell. -- If the battery will be in view, mount something small right on the battery. How machine like! |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by teabowl13 on 12/13/11 at 09:52:29 714F4459545954360 wrote:
Great idea!....[/quote] Thanks Guys! Yes indeed, that is a good idea. Do you guys have any recommendations for one? I've never used one before. I like the idea of having an extra idiot light; we haven't gotten anywhere near the wiring as yet, but we will need to find or build in a mount for the stock idiot lights at some point; it'll be easy enough to add an extra one in. I might mount them into the headlight bucket, if I can cram all the wiring in with the speedo. Otherwise I might drill some small holes into the top triple tree, and mount them directly in there... The battery is going to be installed underneath the swingarm pivot; built into that bracket that holds the CA Charcoal canister; just like Boule'tard did in his "Mini Battery Install" thread. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1259644714 The only difference is that this battery will be even MORE mini... |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by verslagen1 on 12/13/11 at 10:06:01 Kuryakyn LED Battery Gauge http://www.customdynamics.com/Images/4219-shop.jpg I'm sure there's others |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by teabowl13 on 12/13/11 at 10:11:17 6E7D6A6B74797F7D7629180 wrote:
Yeah, but that looks pretty sexy! Thanks Sir! I'll check it out... OK, I'm back! And unlike a lot of their products, it's actually a little cheaper than a lot of the other ones I looked at. WOO HOO! |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by teabowl13 on 12/13/11 at 10:22:44 Found this one from a ROYAL ENFIELD that will look the part, and is actually a couple of bucks cheaper.... Hmmmm...... http://www.ebay.com/itm/09-Royal-Enfield-Bullet-Military-Volt-Meter-Gauge-/230650997286?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item35b3deea26#ht_1376wt_1155 |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by verslagen1 on 12/13/11 at 11:26:17 Certainly looks more antique, but that's an amp meter. It'll tell you it's charging... when it is. I'd want to know when I walked up to a bike whether it'll start or do I have to push it. Not that it'll look the part, but function will be more precise with the LED meter. But before you got it, I might want to see what voltages came from the little battery and see just where it would quit. The LED meter may not have a good range to be useable. |
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Title: Re: LITIUM BATTERIES ANYONE?? Post by Gyrobob on 12/13/11 at 12:54:11 4E7F7B78756D762B291A0 wrote:
I like the looks of the old style ammeter, mounted in the back of the headlight like most of the world's motorcycles in the 1950's. The one thing I don't like about an ammeter is that you have to run a thick wire from the charging source up to the meter and then back to the battery. The meter has to be in series in the line that charges the battery. That makes for a long thick wire. This is why sometimes you'll see an ammeter mounted very near or even on the battery. Ultralight aircraft have different versions of small gauges. The Mitchell series is one,.. they have a line of gauges that are about 1.3" square,.. the gauge itself is a little over an inch. Kinda pricey though. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/minimodular.php |
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