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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Head Gasket Thickness /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1320285175 Message started by jandaso on 11/02/11 at 18:52:55 |
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Title: Head Gasket Thickness Post by jandaso on 11/02/11 at 18:52:55 As you guys know I'm doing a 97mm piston and well I need a custom made gasket. My question is about the thickness. Lancer told me there was a discussion about it but I can't find it. Moto is going with a .032" and well I personally was thinking to go with a .042" or even a .050" . I want to make sure maybe there is someone who remember the threat and can let me know. I want to avoid the worst!! Piston hitting the head and boom! There goes the crankcase'! :'( |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by Oldfeller on 11/02/11 at 19:07:28 Are you running a hot cam? If you are running a hot high lift cam and a high compression piston, be concerned about valve/piston clearance when you rev it up until the valves float some .... We have a very short running history on full bore to the wall hot rod Savage engines .... |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by MotoBuddha on 11/02/11 at 19:08:35 When I chose mine, I put calipers on the stock head gasket and then, just to be safe, went a little bit thicker, even though that might negate some of purpose of a higher compression piston. For what it's worth, with everything bolted back together, and turning the crank manually, nothing is hitting -- and that's with the stage 1 cam. |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by jandaso on 11/02/11 at 19:12:37 I'm going with the stage 2. I don't know if that makes any different between stage 1&2. Stage 1 cam: Cam lift: o.264" intake & exhaust Duration: 239 degrees @ 0.050" lift Stage 2 cam: Cam lift: o.275" intake & exhaust Duration: 245 degrees @ 0.050" lift |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by Oldfeller on 11/02/11 at 20:53:03 Uh oh .... Son of Rex, take #2 ....... Daddy ..... Daddy ..... I boo-boo'd my little tulips and it hurts so bad .... http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/dvd/fox/youngfrankenstein/YF5long_L.jpg |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by jandaso on 11/03/11 at 07:39:10 Im still thinking going with the .042". Can you explain a little bit more about taking it easy till the valve floats. Another observation that I had (I might be wrong) since my cam lift is higher than the stage one (+.011") should I go with the .042" that is .010" more than what Moto is using on his engine with the same piston by a stage 1 cam. Moto have you started the engine ? |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by MotoBuddha on 11/03/11 at 07:52:52 Remember, the new piston top has cutouts for valve clearance, whereas the stock piston is essentially flat. No, I haven't started my engine yet. I'm still messing around with electrical and other things. Valve float can happen with some engines at top RPM, where things get moving so fast that the valve springs can't pull the valves closed fast enough before the piston reaches TDC again. But since the valves aren't sealing completely, the engine is losing power anyway, which keeps it from revving higher. With a thumper, the reciprocating mass makes it hard to rev it so high. Unless you're going to be revving it to the max all the time, it's way down on the list of things to worry about. |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by jandaso on 11/03/11 at 09:13:07 Learning is fun. I guess I will go with the .032. For what I read it sounds that .032 is a good thickness for a street bike. People with gsrx (I know is another bike) are running their track bikes with a .021 or .028 Moto are you expecting that the thickness will go down once compressed? |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by MotoBuddha on 11/03/11 at 09:24:10 It's not that the copper compresses, rather it conforms to the tiny irregularities of the machined surfaces. |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by spacepirates on 11/03/11 at 10:28:51 BurnPGH measured my replacement head gasket when he replaced mine. I think he put it in a post, but I can't find it.... |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by jandaso on 11/03/11 at 10:39:02 Was it done for a wiseco piston with a lancer cam? 1 or 2? |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by spacepirates on 11/03/11 at 10:49:11 6A616E6461736F000 wrote:
Well, no. It was on a stock engine. I guess I missed that part :-/ stupid brain isn't functioning today.... |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by RidgeRunner13 on 11/03/11 at 10:50:16 I've built many engines over the years, and when I build one where I am unsure of the clearance due to a piston or cam change, I check the clearance using modeling clay. :) I put a layer of clay on top of the piston, spray some PAM on the combustion chamber & install the head & cam, adjust the valve clearance to zero lash. Then I slowly rotate the crankshaft at least 2 times, then pull the head back off & measure the thickness of the clay where the valves compressed it. This will give you the exact clearance you have between the piston & valve & may save you $$$$. 8-) Your total clearance will be the amount you measured plus your valve lash. If you do not have enough clearance, any good machine shop can cut valve reliefs deeper in your piston. I have a 2.3L ford engine with the head shaved .110 & the block has been milled for zero deck height on the pistons. It also has an adjustable cam timing 'gear' so I can retard or advance the cam timing. When it was built, I checked clearance at full advance & retard so I wouldn't have to worry about any adjustments made at the track causing a problem. This is an engine that turns 8 grand on the track & cost several thousand $$$ to build so I don't take chances on something I can check giving me a problem. I've seen what happens when someone didn't bother to check & it ain't pretty. :'( |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by jandaso on 11/03/11 at 12:16:55 I'm going thru the safe side. I have a mechanic who did my Yamaha R1 motor a couple of years ago. He just charging like 30 bucks to take the engine to his shop and get the clearance. Maybe with that I can get a higher compression getting the piston as close as it goes (hopefully it wont heat up). He also talked about a getting the piston to head clearance using the soft solder wire method. He explained a bit On the phone but truly is something that I need to see been done to feel comfortable doing it. I will be documenting his procedure and will post details with pictures. |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by Oldfeller on 11/03/11 at 12:34:12 Little factoid about stage 2 cams .... They pull strong at upper rpms, right up until you hear the flutter sound of floating tulips that ends the power run up and signals you need the next shift. You WILL float your valves with a stage 2 cam. Just make sure you have enough room over your piston or you too will be cuddling your little monster while it rocks back and forth clutching its crotch moaning and crying in pain. Banging your little tulips hurts BAD ..... even when you are a monster. ::) |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by jandaso on 11/03/11 at 12:53:39 Ok. I will relay this message to the mechanic. He's a pretty good mechanic, e used to work for Ducati in Atlanta (closed because of the bad economy) now he works in another place and he has build A LOT of race bikes. Once I know the clearance I will post it here and with his knowledge and the one from people here I'm sure this problem will be solved. |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by RidgeRunner13 on 11/03/11 at 13:15:11 676C63696C7E620D0 wrote:
The same basic procedure using solder instead of clay. I like clay because it gives you a bigger picture of what's going on. Sounds like you found a good mechanic if he's checking this. 8-) Next, figure out a way to make the cam gear adjustable so the cam timing can be reset to compensate for the timing chain stretch. ;D |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by jandaso on 11/03/11 at 13:15:57 What about better springs??? That seems to help the valve float on high rpm engines. Has anybody done a mod like that? |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by RidgeRunner13 on 11/03/11 at 13:20:21 It will extend the rpm range at the expense of your rocker arms cam followers, already an issue on these engines, partly due to low oil presssure. >:( Now if it had roller rockers like my V-Star 950, it would be much more practical. ;D |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by verslagen1 on 11/03/11 at 13:35:29 1E25282B291E392222293E7D7F4C0 wrote:
.010" change stretch is approx. 1° of cam retard. oval out the cam gear mounting holes flip the gear 180° and drill a new alignment hole I'd go with half the allowed chain stretch. If you would rather have finer adjustment. you could rotate the gear several times and redrill the 3 holes. Just mark the alignment hole with the advancement angle. While you're thinking about this, you can reduce the amount of chain stretch by inventing a manual chain tensioner. |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by jandaso on 11/03/11 at 14:30:08 Too many problems and things to figure out. I'm not the person who should be trying to figure out this problem. The people at webcam were so helpful and their just going to cut the cam again for the specs of the stage 1. That just took a lot of stress out of me. I'm still getting a nice measurement on that clearance to get a nice compression. I will post the results. |
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Title: Re: Head Gasket Thickness Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/04/11 at 06:28:09 Add ZDDP to the oil, it help protect parts that rub like our rocker/cam area. |
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