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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Back end feels loose at high speeds /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1317996336 Message started by Hooty on 10/07/11 at 07:05:36 |
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Title: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Hooty on 10/07/11 at 07:05:36 I recently bought a new to me 2002 savage. This is my first bike and the majority of my riding over the past month has been at speeds less than 50mph. So the issue may just be my inexperience. I have gone on a few highway runs the past couple of weeks. When I get to around 60-65mph the back end starts to feel kind of loose. I checked and corrected my tire pressure (it was 25psi, the current tires require 40) and it's not nearly as bad as it was. However it still feels a bit loose at highway speeds. Is it just my inexperience with highway riding, or is there something else I should check? |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by thumperclone on 10/07/11 at 07:08:38 spokes tyre balance alignment bearings loose nuts loose shocks |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Mattdw on 10/07/11 at 07:48:49 193E3E2528193E3E510 wrote:
How many miles are on the bike? If this is your first bike, and you don't have much experience with checking torques, etc. then it couldn't hurt to get a friend who might know more to help, or take it into a shop and have them check it all out for you. They would be able to take it for a ride and tell you if something might not be right. These bikes do tend rock and rattle to some extent, but not to the extent where an experienced rider would feel uncomfortable on it. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by MotoBuddha on 10/07/11 at 08:08:05 What do you mean by "loose?" |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Hooty on 10/07/11 at 08:12:35 242D3E212C283D2627490 wrote:
5300 miles when I got it, 6200 miles now. I went over all the bolts I could get to when I got it with a wrench to make sure nothing felt loose. Guess I should go over it again now. My friend who drove it up here from Tallahassee after I bought it said he didn't remember it feeling loose. We took back roads up here after I bought it with 45-55mph speed limits. He is going to take it out on the highway this weekend if he has time and see if it's jut me being a chicken ;D The closest shop that will work on a Suzuki is back down in Tallahassee. I would have to get someone to follow me down there so I could drop it off (it's an hour drive). This will be a last resort, but if it has to be done I'll do it. I have a few trips planned out for next summer and I want the bike to be safe. Ok possibly a dumb question: Could it have anything to do with my saddlebags? The bike came with saddlebags but no supports for them. Could they be flapping in the wind making my bike unstable? |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by verslagen1 on 10/07/11 at 08:15:03 Lift the rear off the ground and check for "looseness" When you find it... take a pair of pliers and pull it out... throw it away ;D |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Hooty on 10/07/11 at 08:24:32 6E4C574C615647474B42230 wrote:
Having a hard time putting it into words. Bike feels rock solid up to 50-55mph, but when I get on the highway it feels like if I shifted my weight the back end might come out from under me. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by babyhog on 10/07/11 at 08:24:40 How's the tread on the rear tire? What brand is it? I noticed a considerable difference (improvement) when I had the OEM tire changed out with a new Dunlop. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Hooty on 10/07/11 at 08:39:37 363534393B21580 wrote:
Tires were brand new aftermarkets. Not sure of the brand. Chicken strips weren't even worn down yet. I've been working on that ::) |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/11 at 08:40:05 Take the bags off & see,, No way should you take it to a shop,, especially one so far away.. Tire condition, road surface condition,. gotta know about that to say much. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by bill67 on 10/07/11 at 08:49:12 684F4F5459684F4F200 wrote:
Its really not a very stable motorcycle it doesn't take to speed very well.Thats why you see a lot of them with low mileage. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Serowbot on 10/07/11 at 10:07:19 There are bikes that feel like they're just strolling at 80 or 90mph... If you ever go down at that speed,... the illusion is broken... I like a bike that lets me know up front,.. how very fast the road surface is passing by beneath me... It's a constant reminder of how unnatural this speed is to a human body... |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/07/11 at 10:47:47 True, Rowboat,, I Like the fact that this bike starts wallowing around at 55 mph in a long sweeper,, keeps me from running in any faster. If I had a bike that handled too well,, Id likely get into a turn too fast for my skill level. This one keeps me scootin at lower speeds, cuz it starts feeling spooky at too high speeds. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/07/11 at 13:01:37 5E7979626F5E7979160 wrote:
What do you mean when you say, "the current tires require 40" |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/07/11 at 14:53:10 The tire manufacturers recommended tire pressure is stamped in the side of tire. The motorcycle manufacturers recommended tire pressure is printed in the manual. It's best to go by the motorcycle manufacturers recommendation. They built the bike to handle the best at that pressure. You may have them overinflated, and that in itself will make the bike feel a little squirrely at higher speeds. I run mine at 32 psi front, and 34 psi rear. (23 years tire and auto repair experience) |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by MrBrownTX on 10/07/11 at 15:56:28 26393F3825221323132B39357E4C0 wrote:
I completely agree with that. I love riding this bike between 50 - 55 it feels perfect. When I start to get faster than that it feels a lot more intense than going fast all the time on my old ninja felt. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/08/11 at 12:41:40 796F68706E2C1D0 wrote:
I agree. This was where I was going with the question. I'd go further, though, to say the number stamped on the tire has very little to do with the pressure to be used in the tire. That stamped number is just something the nanny state makes the manufacturer put on there. It is nothing more than an arbitrary pressure that will support an arbitrary load as required by some bureaucrat. Use the number the vehicle manufacturer recommends as a starting point, and then fine tune as necessary. Just ignore the stamped number. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/08/11 at 21:25:52 Well actually, the number stamped in the side of the tire is what the tire manufacturer says is the maximum pressure you can run that tire at. Vehicle manufacturers contract with the tire company for a specific tire, for a specific size, load and tread design. The tire manufacturer then builds a tire to meet their specific needs, although that tire may also be used on a number of other vehicles. In other words, you can run a 205/70R/15 on a Chrysler Cirrus, or on a full size Chevy Caprice. You would run the Caprice at 36-38 psi. On the Cirrus, you would run it at 32 psi. But if "Max Pressure 40 psi" is stamped on it, don't put it on your Ram 1500. Still, it's best to inflate to the vehicle manufacturers specs. They design their vehicles to perform and handle the best, at their specified pressure. They don't care how long the tire lasts, as long as it performs. It has nothing to do with politics. (Yes, I worked at Goodyear Tire and Rubber Company for 13 years.) ::) |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by verslagen1 on 10/08/11 at 23:02:34 A number of tire company's post fitment and tire pressure. I would tend to use those when available. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Johansson on 10/09/11 at 05:48:20 I have the same problem. I have ridden bikes for about 35 years. On previous bikes that became squirrelly, unstable at speed there are a few things that usually cause this. Old fork oil is on the top of the list. Dunlop 404 tires cause this. Cheap tires. Loose, tight or ungreased steering tube bearings. Steering tube bearing has a worn spot, click in it when turning. When I purchased my Savage with 13,000 miles on it was very unstable at 55 mph. I put Metzler 880's on it, changed the fork oil, loosened the steering tube bearing as it was tight. Very much improved. Noticed my handlebars were not aligned with my Forks. The triple tree was twisted. Loosened everything and got that straightened out, follow the manual to do this. Still had a little unstability at speed. One seat bolt was missing, replaced that bolt, ,,,,slap my forehead I think I have narrowed down the remaining stability issue to the rear shocks. Engine vibration at 70 mph on the Savage is also above my comfort level for extended travel. The savage is not a high speed bike, compared to other bikes I own. My 82 virago 920 and my 82 harley fxr will cruise one handed at 100 mph. My 2007 shadow spirit 1100 will cruise at only 75 mph with 2 hands required. I would say that I am pretty comfortable on my Savage one handed at 65 mph, hold on tight for any thing faster than that. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/09/11 at 06:23:50 4D5B5C445A18290 wrote:
So we agree,.... Use the vehicle manufacturer's specs, at least as a starting point. I didn't say politics was involved. All I said was the manufacturer has to put some number like that on the side of the tire, because some law somewhere, monitored/enforced by some bureacrat, says so. That number has little relevance to proper use of the tire. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/09/11 at 18:26:14 So, in other words, you're saying it IS politics. Or is a bureacrat not a politician? And what law are you talking about, that says they have to put that number there? Or are you just assuming, and spewing your uneducated opinion, yet again? That number is there for a reason. (As I previously stated) They are not forced to put it there. Another reason it is there is so that some dumba$$, with or without an air gauge, doesn't blow the tire up by grossly overinflating it. Ya, it would take quite a bit more than the stamped on pressure to cause a tire to blow, but after 23 years in the business, I have seen some idiots give it a hell of a try. Like a 155/80R/13 tire aired up to 98 psi. "That number has little relevance to proper use of the tire"? So, if "Max Pressure 40 psi" is stamped on the tire, it's ok to inflate it to 20 psi, or 80 psi? WRONG! The relevance is simply this: Rule of thumb. On a compact car, the pressure can be as low as 28 psi, or as high as the max pressure, when loaded. On a midsize car, the pressure can be as low as 32 psi, or as high as the max pressure, when loaded. On a full size car, the pressure can be as low as 36 psi, or as high as the max pressure, when loaded. Any deviation from these recommended pressures CAN cause a blowout and/or loss of performance and tire life. Period. Got any 3's? [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by bill67 on 10/09/11 at 18:37:07 One time my ex girl friend came home and wanted be to check the air in one of her tires on her car,She said she put air at a gas station til she got tried so her daughter put some more in it and it still look low to her.I check it and it had 90# in it. women ::) |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/09/11 at 19:07:24 lucky no one got hurt,,, dang,, I hope you gave them a tire gauge & some lessons,, |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/09/11 at 19:50:49 Radial tires will do that. Even when overinflated, they can look like they're low. I think every new car and every aftermarket tire sold should come with an air gauge and instructions on how to use it. (For those who think they know everything about everything) Johansson...I agree with your opinion of the Dunlop 404's. I have a new set on mine and they are a bit squirrely on curvey highways. Especially the rear. Not that cheap in price, though. $89 for the front and $108 for the rear, plus mounting. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by built2last66 on 10/09/11 at 19:57:03 7F6C7B7A65686E6C6738090 wrote:
What if it's hung? |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Hooty on 10/10/11 at 07:53:26 Well, my friend didn't take it out this weekend due to weather. Wind strong enough to make it difficult to keep a car on the road much less a bike. I'll take your advice on dropping the tire pressure a bit. The bike was definitely more squirrely at 25# than it is at 40#. Maybe 40# is too much. I'll go with Suzuki's recommended pressure and see how that does. Have to wait until the weather clears up tho. Took the bike to the gas station (1/2 mile @ 35mph) and the wind gusts were insane. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/11 at 09:34:32 5345425A4406370 wrote:
This kind of "logic" is amusing. ::) :P ::) Saying a bureaucrat is a politician is like saying a garbage man is voting technician because he unloaded the voting machines for his union's last election. Your whiny protestations notwithstanding, the number molded on the side of the tire is at best meaningless, and at worst can lead people into using that pressure for something when they have no clue about its reason for being. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/10/11 at 10:09:11 I give up. Debating with you is like debating with a brick wall. (A real thick one) You so easily dismiss FACTS, when they don't agree with your OPINION. I worked for a tire company for 13 years, and in the auto repair business for a total of 23 years. I think I might know a little bit about tires. Obviously, you don't. I'll give you ONE brownie point, though. Bureaucrat: 1. An official of a bureaucracy. 2. An official who works by a fixed routine without exercising intelligent judgement. Therefore, you must be a bureaucrat. Be my guest and inflate your tires to whatever pressure you like. Overinflate them and blow them up. Care not, I. (Yoda) ;D [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] P.S. What is prostestation? That word does not appear in the dictionary. (No wonder I didn't know what it meant) Please continue to amuse me with your inane diatribe. :o ::) |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/11 at 13:03:34 584E49514F0D3C0 wrote:
My my my,.. we do get our panties in a wad easily, don't we?? ::) I've always taken it as a form of unintended congratulations when a fellow discusser slings insults instead of discussion. Thanks. ;D Your emotional distress over the meaninglessness of the pressure printed on the tire is wasted. Life is good. Spend your energy on subjects of more import. ;) BTW, here is a copy/paste of protestation: prot·es·ta·tion (prt-stshn, prt-, -t-) n. 1. An emphatic declaration To decrease your ineffectiveness in these discussions, you might want to look up "ad hominem." It deals with shooting yourself in the foot. To sum up, and to maintain some relevance to the thread, let me restate our point of agreement. The vehicle operator should use the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tire pressure. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/10/11 at 13:13:09 Aha, I see you edited your post where you mispelled protestation. (originally posted at 11:30 am today--edited at 2:49 pm today--my post was originally at 12:09 pm today) Nice cover-yer-a$$ attempt. I was very careful when I looked it up the way you HAD it spelled. That's ok Bob. I forgive you. I think I'll stick to dealing with people who can admit when they're wrong. As far as insults, I believe you called me whiny?? What's that about?? By the way, my foot is just fine. ;) |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/11 at 13:34:14 687E79617F3D0C0 wrote:
I accept your congrats, admissions, and apologies. Are we friends now? If not, will you at least own up to the fact the more relevant tire pressure is in the owner's manual, rather than that stamped on the tire? |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/10/11 at 13:42:28 There were no congrats, admissions nor apologies. As a matter of fact, I was waiting for yours. No, I don't think we are friends just yet. I own up to nothing. It is what I have been saying since the start of this debate. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Serowbot on 10/10/11 at 13:49:36 I very often post things and then reread them and find the errors I missed... corrction,.. correcrtion,.. correction... :-?... Not meaning to hide anything,.. just make clear what I want to say.. To ere is human,... to edit divine... ;D ;D ;D... |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/10/11 at 13:52:52 And to admit such errors, even more devine. I, too, have edited errors, but not tried to cover them up after ridiculing fellow posters. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by built2last66 on 10/10/11 at 13:57:43 I make errors and edit my posts, but mostly I'm just dumb and don't even know what I'm talking about to begin with. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/11 at 14:05:29 6573746C7230010 wrote:
Well, I tried. I don't know how, but there must be some way for me to continue to participate here without your acceptance, approval and friendship. :-[ :-/ :-? :( Fret not. I'll find a way, somehow. ::) devine? ::) |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/10/11 at 14:51:15 I'm sure you will. You always do. ;) |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by arteacher on 10/10/11 at 16:10:35 "To sum up, and to maintain some relevance to the thread, let me restate our point of agreement. The vehicle operator should use the vehicle manufacturer's recommended tire pressure." IF the tires are the same size and load range as the originals. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Serowbot on 10/10/11 at 16:19:43 To not maintain any relevance,... ... a prostestation,... is when you you vehemently disagree,.. while laying down... I end up that way,.. whenever I sit at my computer for more than 10 minutes... Man, this chair is slicker'n'snot.... ;D ;D ;D... |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by arteacher on 10/10/11 at 16:31:57 Prostestation- objecting to a prostate exam. ;D |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Serowbot on 10/10/11 at 16:38:56 616A6A636F60617B7A0E0 wrote:
I like that one, even better... ;D ;D ;D... |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by built2last66 on 10/10/11 at 17:26:16 Need some kinda lube to stop the motion with the friction |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/10/11 at 18:44:25 2C27272E222D2C3637430 wrote:
Good point. If you are going to experiment like that, you are on your own, with no real reference other than others' battle scars. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/11/11 at 05:05:47 No battle scars here. The facts, ma'am, just the facts. ;D |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/11/11 at 07:16:20 If you use tire sizes other than manufacturer authorized sizes, you are on your own,... no facts available. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by drums1 on 10/11/11 at 18:50:16 Even if different size, I would still use vehicle manufacturers specs. Not sure about motorcycles, but almost all, if not all, cars come with optional tire sizes available. There is a yearly book that lists all the optional sizes you can use for every model car on the road. Usually, the low profile tires say to use a higher pressure, but when you do, you lose some handling. Again, there is a "safe" range, as long as you don't go over the max listed. |
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Title: Re: Back end feels loose at high speeds Post by Gyrobob on 10/12/11 at 09:26:17 5345425A4406370 wrote:
A reasonable statement. |
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