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Message started by Gyrobob on 10/02/11 at 10:47:24

Title: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by Gyrobob on 10/02/11 at 10:47:24

RYCA does not address the issue of what to do with the crankcase fumes. What options are available other than these?:
1. Just leave the tube open, tucked up out of the way somewhere
2. Poke a hole in the K&N filter and stick the tube in it.
3. Buy a small motorcycle-sized breather filter and route the tube and filter somewhere toward the rear of the bike

Any input from any source will at least be read, if not used. RYCA builders? LS650/S40 operators? Anybody?

My quest is for a solution that is tidy, functions well, and will take something less than 10 hours to implement.

Thanks for any info.

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by Serowbot on 10/02/11 at 11:04:11

I wouldn't leave it open,... it'll just puke oil mist all over...

Tidiest solution would be to route it to the air filter,...

Easiest is to stick mini filter on it...
I'd try to route the hose somewhat upward, in the hopes that the oil mist would condense at the top, and flow back down into the head...

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by Gyrobob on 10/02/11 at 11:16:55

1107100D15000D16620 wrote:

With a hose going to a small breather filter, there will be some moisture from condensation as well, especially during the first 5 min or so after a cold start up. I'm wondering if it would be better to have it drain down into a hose/filter below the head, or have the moisture drain back down into the head (along with the condensed oil mist).

Yes, there ought to be some way to vent the mist-laden fumes to the air filter.

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by RidgeRunner13 on 10/02/11 at 12:27:41

The real problem with a thumper is the large volume of air that is moved in & out of the crankcase as the piston moves. On multi- cylinder engines this is confined to the crankcase mostly as one piston goes up there is another coming down & the volume of air in the crankcase remains roughly the same. With the engine running put your thumb lightly over the end of that breather hose & feel the pulses of air at idle. I wouldn't want to route that to a pod filter on the carb becauase of the interference it might cause with air flow. If you had some sort of air box around the filter I would put it there.
Personally, I would loop the hose up under the tank as high as possible to give the oil vapor a chance to drain back into the engine & then down the front frame tube. Then I would put the largest pod style filter I could find on it. Zip tie everything & trim the excess off the ties to make it as neat as possible. The better that vent can breath, the fewer oil leaks you will have.

On my 2.3L ford mini-stock engine, The normal pvc hose is routed to the side of the engine with a pcv valve mounted inline, then the hose continues to an air pump check valve on the end of a short piece of pipe welded at an angle into the header collector.
The exhaust passing the end of that pipe creates a suction that keeps pressure from building up in the engine. I have a pod type filter mounted on the valve cover to allow air to be drawn in to prevent the gaskets from being sucked in. This system cured 90% of the oil leaks on my engine. BTW, this engine turns over 8000 rpm in competition . When I first bought this car it blew oil out everywhere. 8-)
If you run the engine long enough, any moisture in the oil will be gone from the heat. Consistent short rides don't give enough time to rid the oil of contaminants & would be a reason for more frequent oil changes.

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by Boule’tard on 10/02/11 at 13:01:32

I never tried this on a Savage (take with grain of salt) but on another thumper I ran the vent hose up under the gas tank, over the frame backbone, then back down to one of those mini-K&N looking filters you can get at Autozone for about 15 bucks. It worked very well.. kept itself misted with oil but not so much as to drip.

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by Serowbot on 10/02/11 at 13:05:01

Put a PCV valve in the line, and run it to the vacuum tap on the carb?...
Pulse injection?...

Never mind... ;D ;D ;D...

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by Gyrobob on 10/02/11 at 15:16:43

28253F262F3E2B382E4A0 wrote:

This sounds useful. The mini-K&N-ish Autozone filter probably flows well enough to handle the huge suck and blow (as explained by Ridgerunner13) that happens with each 4-strokes (2revs).

The stock Savage setup goes to the airbox and the carb sucks it all in with its next gulp of intake air. The RYCA setup scraps the airbox in favor of a K&N cone, so it would be difficult and/or tacky to hook up the hose to that filter, methinks.

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by BuckRYCA on 10/02/11 at 15:35:24

For what it's worth, on my Ryca kit I have a hose running from the vent tube on the cylinder head along the bottom of the gas tank, then down to enter the front of the battery box, and then up to the rear plate of the battery box. On that plate I've drilled a hole to mount a K&N crankcase breather filter inside the battery box.

I don't know if the routing is ideal.

The bike (with almost 20K miles) is using a fair amount of oil (5W40), but there's no visible smoke from the pipe (there are dry carbon deposits inside the muffler), only very minor gasket seeps, and no noticeable dribbling from the crankcase breather filter.

I suspect valve guides and/or piston rings are the problem, not the crankcase breathing.

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by Boule’tard on 10/02/11 at 16:25:55

2618130E030E03610 wrote:

The mini-K&N-ish Autozone filter probably flows well enough to handle the huge suck and blow (as explained by Ridgerunner13) that happens with each 4-strokes (2revs).

I think it would work all right. The engine I tried it on was 576cc, the Savage is 652.. not much of a stretch displacement-wise. Some guy on here had a similar filter on his Savage but I lost track of who it was.

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by sbaugz on 10/03/11 at 04:13:47

for what its worth, I chose option number 3 and it works fine. Picked up a little K&N type filter from advance auto parts and route it to the back down low.

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by TheSnakeLady on 10/03/11 at 06:42:27

This is what I've got going on:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb234/the_snake_ladys_pics/100_1079.jpg

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by EJID on 10/03/11 at 07:46:28

Here's what mine looks like...I've since changed to a cone air filter mounted right on the carb, but the crankcase breather is still the same.

http://p1.bikepics.com/2009/09/03/bikepics-1771553-full.jpg

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by bill67 on 10/03/11 at 08:01:23

746865736E616B656C616479000 wrote:

This is what I've got going on:
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb234/the_snake_ladys_pics/100_1079.jpg

Looks good

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by wombat on 10/03/11 at 17:13:25

Applied Racing makes a nice tiny filter that goes on the end of the hose, very unobtrusive and effective unlike the K and N model.
Lead the hose back and down along the rear frame by the swing arm and you are all set.

447A716C616C61030 wrote:

Title: Re: RYCA options for crankcase breather??
Post by Gyrobob on 10/03/11 at 18:12:00

How about poking a hole in outer panel of the RYCA-supplied K&N filter, inserting a grommet that has an ID a few thousands smaller than the OD of the hose, and sticking the hose in the grommet,... just sending the fumes into the inside of the filter?

I could see some resonance issues, maybe, because of the small volumes involved,... but, in effect, the stock setup does this same thing.