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Message started by prechermike on 09/28/11 at 08:26:29

Title: Charging Issues
Post by prechermike on 09/28/11 at 08:26:29

I think my signature line describes my bike pretty well.

I am having some issues with my battery being weak and the bike not starting. I recently purchased a new battery, it is charged, has water and mostly works fine. However, sometimes . . .

I checked the voltage at the battery 12.3 volts DC. The SSM says I should have between 14 and 15 something.

I checked at the three yellow wires to the rectifier, I think I only have 40 volts AC. (Meters confuse me a little, but I am reasonably certain I did this right.) SSM says I shold have 100 volts AC. My conclusion is the stator (generator?) is shot.

Can someone help my with this diagnosis? Anything else I should try or check? If that is the case, Bike Bandit wants almost $400 and I am thinking the bike is not worth that much, it is an '87 after all. :-?

Can I keep riding it and charge the battery (or get a tender to put on) every night?

Thanks for any answers and input.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by MrBrownTX on 09/28/11 at 09:02:56

Keeping a tender on it and still riding it is exactly what I would do. I don't always make the best decisions though. It sounds to me like that would work but if your charging situation got worse and the bike started to not have enough power out put to spark then it could leave you stranded. That is exactly what would happen to me, lol. ;D

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by Gyrobob on 09/28/11 at 09:06:16

7F7D6A6C676A7D6266646A0F0 wrote:

When you get the 12.3 volt reading is the engine not running? If the engine IS running, at what rpm is it running when you get the reading?

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by dasch on 09/28/11 at 09:56:15

Same question. You get 100V AC (a 100??) between any and all yellow wires on 5000rpm! I thought it was around 80V...

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by prechermike on 09/28/11 at 11:52:53

Gyro and Dasch,

Yes the engine is running. The SSM said to run the engine up to 5000 rpm. I do not have a tach, but I had her thumping pretty good. When I race the engine, the 12.3 volts at the battery does go up, but not to 14 volts. I do not have enough hands to hold to the wires on the rectifier and run the throttle. I guess I can get my son to race the engine, he would love that.

I am looking for 100 on the yellow wires, but the best I can get out of any combination of them is about 40.

Son has football game this evening, so probably no shop time today. I will try that tomorrow, though and report back. In the meantime, I will take other suggestions for the morning.

Thanks

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by greenmonster on 09/28/11 at 12:01:46

$400 bucks is rediculous for a new stator. You should be able to pick one of those up for $110 give or take from RMSTATOR. Do a quick search on ebay for them. They have excellent customer service to go with an excellent product.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by Gyrobob on 09/28/11 at 13:41:41

434156505B56415E5A5856330 wrote:

On just about any charging system, you should be getting around 14.4 volts at 1000 rpm or so above idle. It sounds like you have a problem. This is surprising because Jap electronics are usually bulletproof.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by prechermike on 09/28/11 at 15:55:59

OK, the ballgame was rained out, so I got my daughter to help with the bike. Boy was she excited.

When we revved the engine I was able to get into the 70-80 volt AC range on any combination of the yellow wires. Still not able to get to the 14 volt DC, though.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/28/11 at 16:18:04

Take the battery to town & have it tested.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by greenmonster on 09/28/11 at 16:18:17

Sounds like your stator. If you aren't getting the right amount of voltage you're not going to be able to get anything good from your rectifier.

I had my stator fry on my '86. You have to pull the left side of the crank cover to get a good look at it. But if you aren't getting the 100+ volts... that's what it is.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by Oldfeller on 09/28/11 at 19:20:38

Think about this for a second.

You are getting stator output at AC 70-80 volts. A good regulator rectifier should be able to turn that into 14-15 volts DC with no issues whatsoever.

Go on Ebay and find a good cheap R/R with the correct number of wires (ours uses 5) off a Honda or another Suzuki bike -- some Suzuki R/Rs will even plug right in with the same connectors, but most will require you to cut and solder splice the wires.

Color of these R/R wires will vary, but there will always be 3 same color AC wires that can connect to any of the stator wires, and a + and a - DC lead that go to the battery. Ebay always tells you what bike they came off of, and a little net search tells you what the output of the wires actually are.

Bigger, more powerful seven wire R/Rs have 3 same color AC stator wires, two same color separate + DC wires and two same color separate - DC wires that are intended to go to different modules on the bike (generally a modern sports bike has this) but these 2 plus wires can be put together into one general + and the 2 negative wires can be put together into one general - by simply splicing the wires together.

By doing these tricks you can always find a cheap R/R on Ebay that make your bike run again.

Your stator is old, your rotor magnet has likely weakened some over time, but 70-80 volts of output is PLENTY to charge your bike correctly through a fresh regulator rectifier.

PS -- clean your engine ground connection nice and bright and rig up a secondary engine ground or two from your battery terminal and one from your solder joint you make off the negative R/R joint -- ground corrosion is an ill that old bikes get that flat kills their black box electronics over time ....

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by prechermike on 09/29/11 at 06:05:42

Thanks for the input so far. Oldfeller, I sent you a pm.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by Arnold on 09/29/11 at 08:38:34

I say this too because I had the same problem you did. Bike would run for a few days then eventually it would not start again. Battery would charge but I had a bad cell and not enough cranking power, bring to Autozone and get it tested, get that easy part out of the equation before you dig into charging system.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by greenmonster on 09/29/11 at 09:05:16

70-80 is enough? Are you sure about that OF? You have a lot more experience with this bike so I'm not arguing. The reason that I ask is cause on mine I was getting 90+ for two combo's and 70ish on the remaining one. I replaced the stator and my charging issue went away. Same battery, same rectifier.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by verslagen1 on 09/29/11 at 09:20:20

Being a shadetree mechanic, it's hard to know why we replace things and now it works. W/o a scope and precision ohm readings on each coil, it's hard to know why your coil was bad. Could have been a bad wire or connector.

Theoretically, 70 volts is enough. but why is it different then the rest? bad wire or corroded connector or some other singular point in the assembly. A little resistance in the wrong place can be enough.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by greenmonster on 09/29/11 at 09:28:58

Oh I know why mine was bad. It had arcing and chunks of the copper were falling off. I just thought that since the clymer says you should have >100V that was the figure we actually need. I didn't realize that we had that much wiggle room. Come to think of it, I never checked what I'm getting now. I was just happy that I didn't have to charge it after every ride.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by verslagen1 on 09/29/11 at 09:32:44

chuncks of copper falling off would do it for me too. :o

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/29/11 at 10:53:37

I just have to admit,, I really thot this was about someones card being over the limit.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by greenmonster on 09/29/11 at 11:38:16

And you started wondering why there was nothing about sweet upgrades that had maxed out his rating?

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by prechermike on 09/29/11 at 11:53:43

I appreciate the input, well most of it. ;) I have a lead on a "new" rectifier, will know later today. In the meantime, I put the seats back on and rode the thing to town. It never missed a thump. Stopped twice and she fired right up both times.

Maybe on a related note, the left turn signal flashes very slowly, almost not at all, the right one works fine. Any thoughts about that?

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by Arnold on 09/29/11 at 11:57:28

Funny you mention the turn signal, I've redone my electrical twice now and for the life of me I cant figure out why my left blinkers only are extra fast. Short somewhere, cant find it, oh well, I dont really use turn signals...

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/29/11 at 13:29:19

The flasher unit works off of heat created as current flows thru the bi-metal strip, low current flow = slow flash rate,, look for a bad bulb or bad connection.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by prechermike on 10/03/11 at 15:24:40

Kind of a bump and kind of a report.

I have been riding the bike regardless of the charging issue. Everything has been fine so far, I have a rectifier on the way that I can try, to see if it will fix my problem. But now it seems I really don't have a problem.

Having said that, it will probably not start next time, or maybe it will take me far away and then not start. It will not be the first time I have had to call someone to come help me.

Title: Re: Charging Issues
Post by prechermike on 10/07/11 at 10:46:14

OK, I got the "new" rectifier and it makes no difference. I checked the voltage, with the throttle locked, replaced the rectifier, with the throttle still locked and it was the same.

For better or worse, I am still riding the bike. It "seemed" a little sluggish starting today, could have been my imagination, but it started every time with short rides (3-5 miles) in between.

I think I see a battery tender in my future. Stay by the phone, I might need to call someone to come and get me! :D