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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Uh oh ~_~ /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1316669760 Message started by bigdave on 09/21/11 at 22:35:58 |
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Title: Uh oh ~_~ Post by bigdave on 09/21/11 at 22:35:58 So I've been posting about my 99 savage a while now trying to diagnose it s problem. Bike started off fone when I bought it earlier this yr. It has under 6k miles. Bike started back firing after a month of having it. It wasn't loud but sounded like a fart. Puff. Then it got louder. I never did trips over 10 miles & it was mostly 15-35 mph speeds & then after I hot use to the bike I did 40-50 mph trips. I did this because this was my first real bike on the road so I was learning. Well when I finally took it on the highway I got 10 miles away of doing 46-55 mph, may have been in 2nd or 3rd, & the bike backfired or at least made a huge pop, lost all power. Bike completely shut off so I was stranded on the side of the road for an hr. Got a local craigslist mechanic to pick it ip & agreed towork on it. He said he had it running fine, did an oil change & that the battery was shot & so was the power regulator/thing under the back seat. So I rosebud home & got a new battery, charged it & had it running for a couple days & then it died on me. I tried restarting it but no connection. Everyone said to clean the carb. I took it off & no gumming,at least from what I saw. But it's still not starting. I accidentally let go of the throttle while trying to start it & for some reason it started. But haven't had it running since. When I try starting it it sounds like it's trying to start but like it's not catching the spark to connect. It kind of sounds like the muffler is under water. I'm lost & really needing/wanting to ride as it's been 1.5 months. I've resorted to riding the wifes moped just to get that partial feeling. Lol. Fo any help would be appreciated. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by verslagen1 on 09/21/11 at 23:09:09 when did it backfire (afterfire I hope) ? Shutoff? shifting? starting wierd, most will say it won't start if you twist the throttle. Sounds like the pilot jet is way too rich. what jets do you have? |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/21/11 at 23:22:10 Started small,, kept getting worse,, check for leaks on exhaust, |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by bigdave on 09/22/11 at 00:07:15 I just went over a small hill didn't do anything different & 30-40yds later pop,like a rifle, then bike immediately shut itself off while doing 55mph. I don't know anything about jets except that their in the carb & should be free of grime. The bike did start smelling really hot too. & around the inside of the pipe where it connects to the motor us about a inch long spot of rust. & the bike usually only backfired after it was shut off. I thought it nay have been because I stupidly put 87 in the tank & not the good stuff. & doesn't the throttle need to be engaged to start? As well as the clutch? |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/22/11 at 04:54:20 747F7172776073160 wrote:
What's wrong with 87? |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Bubba on 09/22/11 at 06:38:38 It's gonna be a pain to remove unless you've done it before but pull the plug and ground it against the engine fins...see if you're getting a spark when you hit the ignition. If you are then I'd check the carb again make sure your vac line didn't come off. If you don't get a spark go from there... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Serowbot on 09/22/11 at 07:56:59 You were cruising for 5 or 10 miles at 46 to 55mph,... in 2nd or 3rd gear?... That's revving pretty high... for cruising... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by drums1 on 09/22/11 at 08:12:30 Is it possible the tensioner/adjuster went kablooey? Only 6ooo miles on bike but you never know..... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Arnold on 09/22/11 at 11:05:55 Also you said you accidentally let the throttle go when trying to start and it did start. Sounds like you are flooding it, I never give my bike gas when trying to start it, it should start idle on its own. Seems your bike may be running hot and way too lean, starving for fuel... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/22/11 at 11:47:55 Partially plugged jet? If I give mine gas when starting,, its flooded,, |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by SoE on 09/22/11 at 12:57:54 575C5251544350350 wrote:
87 is the good stuff for these bikes. No need to go higher. Ethanol, however, is a whole other discussion, but we here in the US of A don't have much choice about that now. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/22/11 at 13:22:17 No gas,, hit the choke & hit the starter,, |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by bigdave on 09/22/11 at 20:18:56 When I've looked at 87 next to 93 in a glass bottle you can tell 87 is awfully dirty. Most of the guys at the biker pub say they use the 93. & the only reason I had the throttle twisted was because it wasnt starting so I tried giving it gas. & the 55 mph in 2nd or 3rd was in case I did because I didn't remember how many times I down shifted after the bike "popped" & lost power as it freaked me out. I've got a spark plug on the way just as a tune up so maybe that will help if it's the problem. I still would like any input on why the bike would have shut down like that. & would a blown headgasket make it not start? |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Arnold on 09/23/11 at 05:14:13 A bike should start with a blown head gasket, but it will smoke, leak oil, lack of compression... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by bigdave on 09/23/11 at 05:50:10 Ok. It does leak oil around the seal now. No smoke though. Are the heads easy to remove to replace the seal? Could the I of had so much compression that the seal broke & that's what the pop was & caused the bike to shut off? |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Arnold on 09/23/11 at 06:07:51 Any mechanic should be able to do a compression test. some oil around the seal is normal though, those bikes seem to do that, that shouldnt cause the bike to shut off. With a blown seal it would smoke a lot and the oil level would go down quick. It can leak around the valves too. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by drums1 on 09/23/11 at 07:16:15 Leaking oil around the head gasket is not normal, for any bike or car or truck, or anything else with a motor. Mine was leaking and I replaced it, with help from a guy with all the right tools. If the pop you heard was the head gasket blowing, there would be lots of oil, and almost no compression. After changing mine, there has been no leaks at all. And there shouldn't be. The plug cap seal can leak, and most do eventually, but I doubt that there would be any loss of compression from that. It's more of an annoyance than anything else. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Bubba on 09/23/11 at 07:54:27 When you get your new spark plug take the left chrome cover off, attach the new spark to the plug wire and ground the body of it to the engine fins, turn the key and have someone hit the ignition. You should get a sparky...if not then it's something electrical. If it does spark then you got other fish to fry. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/23/11 at 08:43:23 02090704011605600 wrote:
You might want to try your glass bottle test a couple more times,.. maybe at different gas stations. Usually, regular is the cleanest because it is the most used, and therefore the freshest. Premium is used less, but way more than mid-grade. Of course, variables like dirty fuel trucks, disintegrating underground tanks, etc., override any comments about which fuel stays the cleanest. We never know for sure,.. from fillup to fillup. I try to minimize these kinds of problems by filling up at name brand stations where the facility looks fairly new and clean. Maybe I am kidding myself, but it just makes me feel better about what I am putting in the motorcycle than those times when I have had to fill up at some dirty little place out in the sticks that probably gets a new load of gas every 6 months. This is why I ALWAYS have a paper fuel filter between the carb and the tank. Also, the S40/LS650 needs no more than 87 octane. Assuming your source of regular gas is clean, you are wasting your money to use higher octane. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Arnold on 09/23/11 at 08:52:44 Why isnt the petcock filter good enough? Paper filter is finer mesh? |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/23/11 at 09:22:25 485D4645454C5D4C5B290 wrote:
You speaketh the truth, Arnold. The petcock has more of a strainer than a filter. Think of it as the device that keeps the gravel, sand, and rusty lumps from clogging up the real filter; the paper element filter. A good paper element filter will not pass anything larger than 80-90 microns. The petcock strainer is doing well if it can prevent a chunk of a few hundred microns from getting through. A micron is one thousandth of a millimeter,... pretty stinkin' tiny. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Bubba on 09/23/11 at 09:26:17 Do we really need a gas/filter war to help this guy out? how about we get his bike started first...just a thought. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/23/11 at 09:28:21 093E29292A7A7B73784B0 wrote:
war? :o |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Bubba on 09/23/11 at 09:31:15 just sayin'... he can't get his bike started I don't think it's the octane or the fuel filter that caused it to go POP... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/23/11 at 09:33:47 102730303363626A61520 wrote:
ah. so not a war, then, eh? more like a wandering (or hijacked) thread? I stand rebuked. ;) |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by MERKURMAN on 09/23/11 at 10:22:12 I had a similar problem after I cleaned out my carb. I couldn't get but a few putters while trying to start mine. After quite a few choice words and some frustration I pulled my spark plug and low and behold the plug was was fouled. I went up to my local parts store and got a NGK iridium plug. Stuck it in and it started right up. My suggestion read your spark plug and replace it if it is bad. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Bubba on 09/23/11 at 10:32:44 Big D, start with the easy stuff...don't go pulling the head just yet. Remember there are 3 things you need. Air/Fuel/Spark As long as your engine isn't seized it should turn over. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/23/11 at 11:01:29 675047474414151D16250 wrote:
Irrefutable logic,.. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Bubba on 09/23/11 at 11:10:46 ;D |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by bigdave on 09/25/11 at 19:35:24 Thanks guys. I'm hopefully getting to work on it this week. Lots of fall preps in N.E Indiana that I had to tackle first. I wasn't too worried about the octane talk. I did get the idea of checking octane levels from college though. Like my papa said "Usually it's better stuff if your paying more for it". But can anyone suggest what the pop was? Mechanics around here are quoting half my bikes value to tare into it to figure out what was wrong. Not really wanting to do that. As I'm getting Teddy to take a mechanics class to learn to do it myself. Plus I'm too cheap. ;) |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/26/11 at 06:02:20 23282625203724410 wrote:
I generally agree with this too, but it just does not apply when you are comparing regular to premium at a given gas station. Yes you get what you pay for, but that does not mean what you are paying for works any better. Using premium in a vehicle designed for 87 octane doesn't help any at all. Now when you are talking about paying more for 87 at a sparkly new Chevron or Shell station compared to saving a bit by buying 87 at the discount place off the beaten path that is using 20-year-old tanks that get filled up every 6 months or so, I'd say paying a little more is worth it. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by 1st2know on 09/26/11 at 09:32:52 The symptoms you describe(progressive backfire and then engine cutoff) and the mileage (6k) suggest a cracked vacuum hose going to the petkock. It costs $3 to replace with about 18 inches of fuel hose. To rule this out, put the petkock on 'prime' and block off the vacuum nipple on the right hand side of the carb. Leaking oil around the head gasket at 6k miles? 6k miles is about how long the head plug will last. (i know mine will start leaking next at 18k miles after resealing it at 6k and 12k). Symptoms of a head plug leak are: oil marks at the front of the engine below the exhaust port, and then wraps around to the left side of the bike. It will soil your left hand side cover. Block out a Saturday afternoon to replace/reseal this. This is also a good time to re-torque the heads and set the valve lash. Getting the gas tank off is the trickiest part of this job :-) Once you knock these problems out and mount your own tires(which are probably also due at 6k), you will become a certified Savage owner :-) |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by bigdave on 09/26/11 at 20:01:10 Gyrobob, I wasn't wanting to get into the dispute between octanes. I was just comparing my results as a local college did a few months back & posted it in their paper. I do agree with you about the same octane at different stations but as far as higher octanes, I've been taught to use premium in things that will accept it. There is a reason that better car classes usually tend to only want you using higher octane. The problems with backfiring didn't seem to start until I put 87 in it. 1st2know- my hose wasn't cracked until I took it off. I bought the same gauge hose the other day but it doesn't seem to want to stay on as it leaked gas at carb port. So I'm going to try 1 gauge down. I have done the petcock test & it didn't do anything different. So I'm still at a lost. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Bubba on 09/27/11 at 06:20:41 BD, if you are, in fact, getting gas leaking out of the vac hose then that is a sign of a bad petcock. The vac hose connects to the right hand side of the carb and should just be creating a vacuum not carrying any gas. So are you saying you got the bike started? If not, I'd still pull the plug and check it. If you got no sparky then it's never going to start... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/27/11 at 12:49:08 49424C4F4A5D4E2B0 wrote:
Okay, we can start a new thread to discuss how what you have been taught is incorrect. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/27/11 at 12:58:57 Yep... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by bigdave on 09/27/11 at 13:55:51 I fixed the hose problem. It only happened when I turnedpetvock to reserve or full. The gauge on the bike to begin with was wrong the previous owner must of replaced it, then when I tore it & replaced it,it was still wrong. Smaller size =ed a better suction. My spark plug should be here soon. So I'll try that. & what's the actual technical term for the voltage regulator under the passenger seat? I was told thatvwas going bad but the last test still was close to where battery should have been. I don't have a volt meter to check it. But I may have to but another 1. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/27/11 at 13:59:40 7C77797A7F687B1E0 wrote:
You can get a cheapo voltmeter on ebay or Amazon for $4 including shipping. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Bubba on 09/27/11 at 14:03:44 353E3033362132570 wrote:
rectifier |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by bigdave on 09/27/11 at 16:16:31 Thanks guys. Is harbor freight stuff any good?I saw one for $4 brand new there. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by Gyrobob on 09/27/11 at 19:46:57 5D56585B5E495A3F0 wrote:
It is as good as any other cheap chinese stuff you'll find anywhere. Generally, that kind of product from China used to be worthless a few years ago,... now it is not worthless, just not all that great. For $4, consider it expendable. I'd check it in the store before you buy it. At least Harbor Freight is pretty good about refunds and exchanges. The stuff made in China for the real name-brand companies is pretty good. Buy a Sony something or other made in China and it'll work well. It also costs more than the cheapo off-brand stuff. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by stinger on 09/28/11 at 04:07:12 Where you at Dave? Maybe someone close to you.... |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by MrBrownTX on 09/28/11 at 09:42:14 1A242F323F323F5D0 wrote:
It is as good as any other cheap chinese stuff you'll find anywhere. Generally, that kind of product from China used to be worthless a few years ago,... now it is not worthless, just not all that great. For $4, consider it expendable. I'd check it in the store before you buy it. At least Harbor Freight is pretty good about refunds and exchanges. The stuff made in China for the real name-brand companies is pretty good. Buy a Sony something or other made in China and it'll work well. It also costs more than the cheapo off-brand stuff.[/quote] I have a few harbor freight power tools that I have used for about 5 years now and have had no porblems out of them. I am not in construction or anything and only use them a couple of times a month though. I only paid about $12 each for them though so I know I have got my moneys worth when they die. |
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Title: Re: Uh oh ~_~ Post by drums1 on 09/28/11 at 10:06:21 I bought a 3/8 torque wrench there when I had my side cover off for the Verslavy. It didn't work worth a crap, as I almost twisted a few bolts off, never hearing or feeling a click, when torque was reached. However, I have had other things from there serve their useful purpose and beyond. Like Bob said, try it out there 1st and if it seems to be working, go for it. Savings of any kind these days are hard to come by. |
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