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Message started by mojo on 09/18/11 at 20:39:00

Title: Tire Life
Post by mojo on 09/18/11 at 20:39:00

Going to look at an 04 Savage tomorrow. It has 2700+/- miles. I don't expect to be able to see much in the way of weather cracking, but would you experienced riders expect them to need replacing just due to age? I've been studying the "buyer's guide" posted in the tech section, so hopefully nothing major will slip past my eyes. Comments or suggestions appreciated.

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/18/11 at 20:48:26

Id put fresh rubber on it,,

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/18/11 at 20:56:37

Ohh yea,, , 2700 miles in 7 years? Thats real close to what I call " Documented neglect",. Id want to see fresh oil in it before it got started. Oil gets acidic from the unburned fuel stuff that ghets in it,, It hasnt got enough miles on it to really justify an oil change, but Time is a factor, & lots of people dont know that, so dont ask IF its been changed, ask WHEN it was changed,, or, simply insist on a change, its okay to just drain & fill,,dont sweat the filter,

& its not yet broken in, so use dino oil,

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by JohnBoy on 09/18/11 at 21:12:11

I would be looking at cracks and tread but I would also look at the compound for hardening. Here in AZ the tires will still look good but can be hard enough that they don't grip very well. like a pencil eraser that gets exposed to the weather. Tires are way cheaper then a trip to the emergency room.

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by mojo on 09/19/11 at 06:24:04

I've seen a few posts mention dino oil, but I don't really know what it is. Is it a brand or type?

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by MrBrownTX on 09/19/11 at 06:45:29

676560650A0 wrote:

I've seen a few posts mention dino oil, but I don't really know what it is. Is it a brand or type?

I believe they mean natural oil as opposed to synthetic.

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by Gyrobob on 09/19/11 at 07:09:37

303237325D0 wrote:

I've seen a few posts mention dino oil, but I don't really know what it is. Is it a brand or type?

MrBrownTX is correct,.. the term "dino" refers to dinosaurs,... meaning plain old petroleum oil, as opposed to synthetic oil. Refined from rotting dinosaurs, eh?

There is nothing wrong with dino oil, as long as you buy good stuff, the proper weight, and the kind without the friction modifiers (labeled energy conserving or fuel saving). Oil with these additives is hell on wet-clutches.

A lot of us use synthetic oil. It has no huge advantage, but might have a little better film strength in abnormally high heat situations.

I like Shell Rotella synthetic (made for diesel trucks) bought at Walmart for cheap. It has none of the bad-for-wet-clutch stuff, and it coincidentally is formulated perfectly for bikes like ours: engine and trans sharing the same oil.

We have to be careful with our opinions expressed concerning oil around here. Oil wars can start up almost instantly,.. much the same as loud-pipe wars, or schmagnet wars, or helmet wars, or seafoam wars, or Atkins wars, or petcock wars,... or,... or,...

Everyone please note, my comments about Rotella and about synthetic oil are purely my opinion. If you like using some other kind or brand of oil, I hope you are truly happy with it. I would never suggest you were a gay, bottom-feeding, commie liberal, that hates his mother and probably apple pie as well.

jk

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by MrBrownTX on 09/19/11 at 08:56:37

Has there ever been a Peak Oil War?

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/11 at 09:09:53

Cant use synthetic during break in,,

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by drums1 on 09/19/11 at 14:23:50

I been using Autozone motorcycle oil for 5 years now. Never a problem with it. about 4 bucks a quart.
As far as the tires, even if looking good, they can be bad, based on age alone. Ozone causes the rubber to deteriorate, and harden. 7 years since new on bike, but they may have sat in a warehouse for another 5. I would definately look at new tires.

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by Sam7.62 on 09/19/11 at 14:38:50

The DOT# Should have a production date on it. The last 4 digits. Ex. 1911=19th week of 2011. I have heard people say tires are good for 4 years some say 7.

I'm very new to motorcycles so I may be talking out of my tushy. If you're at all concerned about tire condition buy new ones. I don't think its worth the risk on 2wheels..

On that note what are good brands?

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by HJH on 09/19/11 at 18:47:43

My 2002 Savage had the original tires on it when I got it in 2011, and they were definitely weather-checked. I'm tempted to say I'd be surprised if a motorcycle tire, after 7 years either inside or out, didn't have lateral weather checks, but I had a tire on the back of my travel trailer, bought as a spare in 1990, and kept under a cover all the time, that had no weather-checking in 2010. On the other hand, as JohnBoy said, it was so hard I expected it to blow if used, so I have a new spare. If you buy the bike replace the tires, as a high-speed flat is no fun, and a blowout even less.

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by mojo on 09/19/11 at 20:35:12

I've been told over the years that tires are only good for 7 years, regardless of whether they are stored in a warehouse or in service. Looked at the bike today, started it from "cold" condition. It passed all the tests on the "buy sheet" mentioned above. Seller said she had replaced the tires and they had about 2K miles on them. Still had the little rubber needles sticking out on the sides (worn off where tread meets road). I did not know there is a date code on them. Will take another look tomorrow. Bike is currently licensed and being ridden......has about 600 miles more than shown in the ad photos. The only battle scars I saw were the right foot peg is slightly bent and the windshield has some deep scratches down low.......Seller said it was like that when she got it.

Thanks for all the info........will keep ya posted

P.S. Seller said oil was changed 6 months ago, did not know what brand, thought it is 10-40 and it came from a MC shop, it looked clean thru sight glass.

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/11 at 20:47:20

Sounds better now that I know its being ridden,,

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by Oldfeller on 09/19/11 at 22:07:59

A lot of the tire comments about tire aging and "age cracking" come from the car industry, and this is probably to be expected as they produce and sell most of the tires.

Our motorcycle tires have tubes inside them that hold the air. The sidewalls and tread on our tires provide structural strength and contact friction, but they don't hold in the air, the tube does.

Old bike tires on Savage motorcycles that hold air are safe to ride and use up. But if you feel safer, spend a few hundred dollars and change them out instead of wearing them out.

Me, I wore the Suzuki originals out (and they were crappy tires, btw) and bought 4 year old Dunlop/Goodyear tires on sale for less than half price and stored them for 4 more years until I needed them.

Stored inside the house away from sunlight and ozone, the tires still look pretty much new when put on and they give me a full normal service life.

Yes, Goodyear has a policy that they will warehouse purge (by sale preferably, but they will cut up and scrap if need be) any tire older than 3 years old -- why? Because tires typically spend 2-3 years in distribution before they get put on a car. Then once on a car a tire generally sticks around no more than 4-5 years.

10 year old tires look rugged, and if tubeless a car tire might have issues hold air at the end of 10 years.

However, the same age of tire on a Savage run with a fresh tube when installed will likely run out its rubber just fine.

Motorcycle tires are GREATLY over-strength on the sidewalls compared to a car tire, BTW. Relative thickness of a bike tire sidewall to a car tire sidewall is 3 times thicker, relatively, with at least twice as much cord material.

Car sidewalls are intended to flex and bike tires are intended NOT to flex at all. The thought of these hell for strong bike constructed tires "failing" because of some cosmetic cracks on the side wall is really pushing it a lot, IMHO.

And the funny thing is the bike tire carries a load of 500 pounds per tire max and the car tire is rated at 1,000 pound minimum for the very least of them (most car tires carry load ratings of nearly a ton each).

How is this? The car sidewall carries NO LOAD, the air inside the car tire carries all the load at 32 psi. In a properly inflated bike tire the same thing is true, the air carries all the load. However, a bike tire can go way down to 10-15 psi before it even begins to sidewall flex (and tell you it needs air). The sidewalls are that much overbuilt on a bike tire.

Yeah, I used to work in the tire industry as a Quality Engineer and then later as a Manufacturing Engineer, so I know a little bit about them tires. My last good paying job in Industry before getting put out to farm was with Goodyear Tire and Rubber.

Plus, I have personally run both types of tire on a motorcycle - and remember boys and girls, car tires trying to go onto bike rims have a very hard time making the rim transition and the steel beads inside the car tire rim can really truly break in two on you, so please don't put car tires on motorcycle rims.

>:( (fingering the big scar on his left wrist as he types this warning)

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/19/11 at 22:41:01

Motorcycle tires are GREATLY over-strength on the sidewalls compared to a car tire, BTW.

I know this to be true, as I rode an almost new Dunlop about 40 miles leaking terribly,, I put several cans of "Fix a Flat in,, only needed it when I was forced to ride slow, as in thru towns, on the open road, it was fine, well,, in a straight line,,

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by drums1 on 09/20/11 at 05:26:09

I agree, I had a flat on the rear tire once. I didn't know it until I rode about 10 miles. I did notice it felt kinda squirrely and the bike didn't seem to coast as far as usual. At first, I thought maybe the brakes were dragging. When I checked, I found the rear tire completely flat. Had no choice but to ride back home on it. I took the wheel to where I worked at the time and repaired the 4 holes in the tube. I still rode on that tire for another year before replacing it this past winter.
And yes, I put a small patch on the inside of the tire, as well as the 4 on the tube. (The nail was still in there and caused multiple holes in the tube.)

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by mojo on 09/20/11 at 06:07:45

All things considered, I decided "not" to buy the bike. This has been a great thread and I've learned a lot, and look forward to learning lots more. Thanks for the great feedback.

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/11 at 07:27:04

What made you decide against?

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by mojo on 09/20/11 at 08:42:26

a)Bottom $ price of seller - $2000, 33XX miles, 2004,NADA_1595-2100, KBB_ 1380-2075.
b)Right Front Foot Peg bent and windshield deeply scratched on right side..looks like bike was dropped. Seller said it was that way when she purchased it about 3 yrs ago.
c) Drive Belt looks worn a lot (has lots of pitting in cogs/teeth)...Seller said she does ride on gravel..I think it would need replacing soon.
d) Seller does not know what kind of oil is in engine (thinks 10-40, but does not know brand)..that bothers me.
e) Saddle bags are vinyl and ripped at mounts.
f) It does have an engine guard which looks OK.
g) I'm not real crazy about the color.........Silver.
h) tires look too black..looks like sprayed with tire dressing..my fault..did not know they had a date stamped on them, so they could be OK.

My gut feel is the bike needs some $ and TLC to bring it up to par.........If seller calls me and wants to sell for about $1750, I'd buy it. Maybe I'm too picky

Sorry to be so wordy. I appreciate all comments.

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by EJID on 09/20/11 at 08:50:21

Sounds like you came armed with information and went with your gut feeling (sometimes the best policy) by walking away. Nobody will fault you for that, and keep looking. The right one will come along, but the right one might have a different price/value to you 8-)

Title: Re: Tire Life
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/20/11 at 10:36:39

Soundes like a wise decision,,