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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
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Message started by AZSGT on 09/15/11 at 19:57:30

Title: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by AZSGT on 09/15/11 at 19:57:30

So I am having starting issues again.
Started it this morning, no issues.
Rode to work. Stopped half a dozen times, started up every time.
Started after work. Rode it home

Turned off at a red light to save the heat and would not re-start. Seems to do this all the time. After a good long ride, bike just wont start.

I think I have an issue with my decomp solenoid or my starter. Because if I push start the bike, it will run like a top.

Do I understand correctly that I should see the solenoid move out when I attempt to start the bike??? Cause it does not.

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by Oldfeller on 09/15/11 at 20:23:10

AZSGT,

First, overheating. If you use any kind of synthetic motorcycle oil in your bike you can quit worrying about overheating (and stop turning your bike off all the time which is overworking your starter, battery, etc). I would recommend Rotella T6 synthetic for $21 per big blue gallon jug as sold at Walmart in the diesel oil section (not the car oil section).

Yes, the big assed decomp solenoid should move and make a very audible click sound every time when you hit the starter button. Since this does not do this for you, you have 2 possibilities (bad starter relay) & (mis-adjusted decomp solenoid).

Have you followed the procedure that you were pointed to earlier to properly adjust your cable on the decomp solenoid? 3mm of slop is A LOT OF SLOP but your system requires it. You keep saying your cable is tight, but I question if you are even looking in the right place to tell you how to make your adjustment.

You adjust the cable, but you pop the rubber cover off the back side of the big assed decomp solenoid to check the movement distance? That steel inner rod is supposed to be able to move freely to protrude outside the bearing so it protrudes 3-5mm (or 0.118" 0.197") and that is a LOT of movement of the shaft protruding outside the bearing.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1169356966

Once you have this properly adjusted, your click (or 'WHACK' should return). If not, check the juice going to the decomp solenoid from the timer relay, then check to see if you have juice going TO the timer relay itself.

You can jump around the timer relay and shoot 12volts to the solenoid for just a fraction of a second to see if you get a proper click OR you can do a simple resistance check on the big assed decomp solenoid itself -- never had one go bad yet but there is always a first time.

Anyway, get your click or "whack" back. Then if your problem persists you may have a dead bar on your starter armature. I hope not, as this is expensive and is likely outside your zone of expertise to try to fix. Buying a used starter on Ebay is generally how folks wind up addressing this issue.

If you do wind up buying a used starter, please save me all the pieces of your old starter -- I collect the pieces and try to get a good one out of the pieces of several dead ones. So far dead armatures have stopped me from succeeding at this, so yes starters really do go bad on occasion.

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by AZSGT on 09/15/11 at 20:29:14

Yes sir I did properly adjust my solenoid cable, and I do know where it is. Left side on top of the motor near the throttle body.

My solenoid is not moving at all in any way. I will try to get my "wack" back. I will also test my relay.

As soon as I figure out where it is :-[

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by AZSGT on 09/15/11 at 20:45:19

Ok I am at 3 1/2 MM on the solenoid so that is good but still no click. Won't be able to check the power from the relay till tomorrow since I do not have a garage.

It seems odd that it would start so many times, then quit all in the same day. then a day or 2 from now, it will start again.

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by Oldfeller on 09/15/11 at 20:46:41

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/WIRING_HARNESS_MODEL_T_V_W_X_Y_K1_K2_K3/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/44/Year/2003/ModelID/7066/Model/LS650P_SAVAGE/GroupID/305494/Group/WIRING_HARNESS_MODEL_T_V_W_X_Y_K1_K2_K3

If memory serves (getting bad, so somebody back check me on this) your starter timer relay is part #15 which sits right over the carburetor at the Y split in the frame. (miracle of the edit function strikes AGAIN !!)

Simply disconnect the decomp solenoid at it's connector and VERY briefly jump 12 volts across the decomp solenoid side of the connector to see if you get a click (or you could do a simple continuity test as it is just a big electromagnet coil of wire on a hollow iron core)

Testing the timer relay is much more difficult and you could possibly do damage to it if not done correctly, so just see if you get output voltage from the timer relay off the same connector you disconnected to get to the decomp solenoid terminals. Remember, the timer relay only actuates for a fraction of a second, so don't expect it to go on and stay on. A swing meter will just jerk a bit and a digital will just flash up very very briefly.

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by verslagen1 on 09/15/11 at 21:01:15

Deeeeeep Deeeep Deep... Warning OF CRS ::)
Under the left side cover is the magic chit box or more commonly known as the CDI.

The decomp controller sits on top of the carb... I think. ;D

1st, check yourself, the decomp cable should be really loose.
and it's pretty easy to get it out of position (cause I have it so loose)
the arm just about hits the tab at the bottom. take off the tank and check the cable routing.

If it's tight, it won't work. These types of solenoids have lots of travel and are pretty strong... when adjusted correctly. too tight and it won't get to the point where it's real strong.

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by AZSGT on 09/15/11 at 21:07:23

Ok well I was just tracing back the wires to the solenoid, and obviously I have something loose. After fiddling with the wiring harness, the bike started. twice. Then would not start again. Not 100% sure what the hell is going on.

You notice he never tells us if his decomp solenoid clicked or not ... he provides us with jest about close to zero information when he does post back.

So he thinks he has a loose connection -- hells bells, check all the connectors and spray them out with electrical connector cleaner and report back when you have something to tell us (like whether the decomp solenoid clicked or not ....)

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/16/11 at 08:24:14

Decomp timer is under the seat.

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by verslagen1 on 09/16/11 at 08:54:56

CONTROL UNIT, DECOMP
32910-24B10

tell me where it is

Justin sez

I lost the thread,, someone wanted to know where it is, its the black box with 5 wire connector under the seat, It has a black band around it to hang it on something, If thats not enough, let me know.

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by verslagen1 on 09/16/11 at 13:55:05

top pic... where the frame makes a "y"... which corresponds to... above the carb

crown me king of ss.com you is king indeed -- thank you !!

http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/harnessweb.jpg

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/16/11 at 19:28:46

ea, yea, yuea,, OOOOKay,, over the carb, under the seat,, PHHHHT! ;D

Its a black box a bit mote then an inch across, say 3/4 thik,, ehh,, more than an inch tall,, with a 5 wire plug poked in it.. I THINK* the yellow/green stripe wire is the one that fires the starter after it fires the decomp.

* Think,, I really thot the darn thing was right behind the rear tank mount & was a flat , solid state chip.. till I went out hunting it,, I had to trace the wire from the emergency start switch I put in to even find it,, so,, when I say I THINK,, be afraid, be very afraid,.. CRS is a dangerous disease.

Yea Vers,, YOuze Da King Baybee!

coff, coff,,

Title: Re: BIKE NOT STARTING AGAIN!!!!!!
Post by AZSGT on 09/17/11 at 17:17:50

FIGURED IT OUT!!!!!! The wiring harness that runs from the decomp controller, not the solenoid, runs under the tank. Since my bike is bobber modified, I don't have a stock tank. Over time, the tank bracket rubbed the harness off and exposed a bit of wire. That wire was grounding out on the tank bracket. As soon as I re-taped it started like a dream.

SO HAPPY IT IS A 0$ FIX