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Message started by Wake51 on 09/12/11 at 16:14:18

Title: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Wake51 on 09/12/11 at 16:14:18

I'm away at school and I simply don't have the means (garage to pull it apart in, and a complete set of tools to go with) to dig into the engine to fix the notorious oil plug leak. Last weekend I left on an excursion to take the bike home to fix it with my brother. My friend tagged along for the trip. Well long story short he ended up laying his bike down on the interstate (don't worry, he is fine, a little road rash on his knee) and needless to say my bike was no longer priority. Well it will be a while before I can make the trip home again and I'm at my whits ends with this oil leak.

I took it to a local shop here and presented images of the the plug clap that is the supposed problem with the diagrams provided here in the tech section. The service manager said he has had several savage customers, but none in which that particular part was leaky. (I assume this is likely because they never actually find the correct source) However he also assured me that if I believe that to be the source they would gladly dig into it, clean the guilty area, and install the new head plug with sealant as I requested.

Now here are my questions. I asked him to give an estimate on price. (also why I brought the diagrams, so he knew what he was working with) He said he guessed about, 120 bucks, maybe 180 worst case if it took two hours. This was far lower than what I was expecting and I think I'll go through with it if this is the case, I just wanted to know if this sounds accurate and what I will actually be paying. (I'm supplying the parts). He ALSO said I would need to provide a 'valve gasket' since he would be opening that part of the engine to get to the plug. Now I'm assuming this is the gasket on the lower half of the engine much like the head gasket, but I haven't been able to find such a thing on any parts site as I don't know the exact name or part number. I also wanted to insure it's something I really needed to get.

I told him while he had it open I might as well have a tune up performed. (tightening the head bolts and adjusting valves). He said that shouldn't even take 30 minutes.

So answers and thoughts? I REALLY wanted to do this work myself, brakes, new muffler, raptor fuel thingy, and rejetting, make me feel closer to the bike, improve my very basic wrenching skills, and save a lot of doh. But when you're limited to a basic tool set, a cul-de-sac you have to have the bike together by dark in, and a two hour interstate trip from an allied garage during fall semester, your options are a bit limited.

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Boule’tard on 09/12/11 at 16:47:00

"Valve gasket" ? I could be confusing bikes again, but I'm pretty sure the valve cover is set more or less rigidly to the head and just uses a thin layer of sealant (like loctite 510) and no gasket. If he meant the valve inspection caps, those gaskets are reusable. If he meant head gasket or base gasket, he would have said so.

Someone will correct or verify that shortly I'm sure. If it's correct, that kind of casts doubt on that mechanic's ability, and I'd worry about the job getting done right.

Maybe clear a couple days wrench time and just rig up a tarp outside the dorm or something? :-/

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Serowbot on 09/12/11 at 16:55:55

Yup,.. the two valve covers are reusable o-rings... the head cover/ cam cover (whatever)... is just sealant (Hondabond), no gasket...

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by serenity3743 on 09/13/11 at 05:11:37

Yes, the valve cover gaskets are O-rings on the valve inspection covers, front and rear, and they seldom need replacing, just tightened down. Wake, the one you were thinking was the clutch cover gasket, and there is no need for opening that up for tightening head bolts, remove and replace leaking head plug, etc.

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Wake51 on 09/13/11 at 19:13:58

Well took it in today and got a call near close that it would require pulling the engine from the frame and they estimated a cost of $400. Obviously I told them it was a no go, looks like I'll have to tough it out for now.

On the up side the shop was very up front and honest, didn't charge me a dime for taking it in and attempting since they couldn't do the work promised.

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Oldfeller on 09/13/11 at 19:29:14

\Why is it we can do this work with the engine in the frame and the dealership can't?

Could it be that they plan to do a full engine teardown and charge you a LOT of money just to fix a silly rubber plug oil leak, mainly because they don't know WTF they are doing?

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Serowbot on 09/13/11 at 20:41:54

They wanted you to buy the "valve cover gasket"...
...and,.. they have to pull the engine?...

Go elsewhere...
These guys will probably drown next rain, looking up...

;D...

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Boule’tard on 09/13/11 at 20:51:22

7D4B414F1F1B2A0 wrote:

Well took it in today and got a call near close that it would require pulling the engine from the frame and they estimated a cost of $400.

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/13/11 at 20:51:57

400 Hunnert Dollars? They are tryin to make a fortune on it,, You can buy tools & rent a storage building & still have $$$ in your pocket,,

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by verslagen1 on 09/13/11 at 21:59:34

I'd do it for a hundred. XD. Or watch you do it for lunch and beer.

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/13/11 at 22:54:12

5D504A535A4B5E4D5B3F0 wrote:

[quote author=7D4B414F1F1B2A0 link=1315869260/0#4 date=1315966438]Well took it in today and got a call near close that it would require pulling the engine from the frame and they estimated a cost of $400.

(*FACEPALM*)

Pull the engine just to get the valve cover off? ::)

You do realize there was NO CHANCE of that shop staying under $400, yanking your engine out unnecessarily, doing god-knows-what to it, and delivering it back to you more oil-tight than it is now, right?

That head plug leak can be fixed later, several months later, when you are between semesters and can cobble up the resources, garage space or whatever, to do the work yourself.

$400 buys a whole lot of nice tools, way more than you would need for this job.

Think of the satisfaction you'll feel, having done this intermediate repair yourself, and having a few hundred extra bucks in your pocket as you head out for dinner and drinks with a college chick on the back. ;) [/quote]

Boule' makes a good point.. If they know so little about this bike as to believe the engine has to come out, odds of them actually solving the problem are really slim,,

& seriously, you can have a the tools youll need to do the work on this bike, & a shop manual for a lot less than 400 bux.. take your time, keep oil in it, study the book, know what youre gonna need to do, when you get a chance , do the work, IDK what a small storage unit costs to rent for a month, but Id look at that if I needed a place to work on my bike,
Id have floor dry & catch pans,, wouldnt leave the place a stained up mess,,

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Morgii on 09/14/11 at 07:19:46

554651504F4244464D12230 wrote:

I'd do it for a hundred. XD. Or watch you do it for lunch and beer.

I'd take him up on the offer if I was anywhere near LA. Always good to have somebody watchin' who knows wtf they're doing... and for what? A sammy and a beer. boom. :D

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Boule’tard on 09/14/11 at 08:06:46

Yeah, verslagen would get that engine practically self-cleaning. Then, as the Savage was parked in its rightful place by the statue of the University founder, surely a college chick would approach and say "OOoohh Wake51.. your motor's so clean and nice!" as she licks a finger and briefly sizzles it tzZSSt! on the cooling fins. :D

Much better than Wake51 toiling over oil spills and past-due school projects.. penniless and frazzled after paying the incompetent shop and having to fix their screwups.. and frat boys taunting "Loooooooserrrrr!" while bonking beer cans off his head. ;D

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by RidgeRunner13 on 09/14/11 at 18:04:37

Sounds like they are in the same league as the shop that told my friend they needed to order the shims to adjust the valves on his C50.

Or the one that replaced his rear tire & never mentioned the rim was bent.

Or the one that charged for adjusting valves at 600 miles & never touched them.

Or the one that TRIED to tell him his V-Star 950 needed a valve adjustment at 600 miles when it clearly shows in the owners manual 16,000 miles.

These were ALL different dealerships! I don't trust the dealers to do anything right any more. The only way a dealer would ever get to work on a bike of mine would be if it was something warranty covered. And from what I've heard they probably would try to deny warranty coverage.

Whether they're incompetent or greedy :-/, the result is the same, YOU get screwed & they think you should be happy about it. >:(

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/14/11 at 21:14:07

YOU get screwed & they think you should be happy about it.

Sounds like job training comes straight out of DC,

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by mojo on 09/15/11 at 07:07:52

Amen Guys! I'm new to the street bike world, but what you're saying about tools and knowledge has been true for many years. People shy away from it, but it's really not that hard if you do your homework ahead of time. Always done my own mechanic work on cars, trucks, machinery, etc. Plan to do the same when I get my Savage.

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Bubba on 09/15/11 at 07:23:37

I may have forgotten but aren't the long bolts on the head cover a bi*ch to remove w/o at least tilting the engine forward in the frame?

That said, I'd still do the work myself. the aforementioned shop has got a screw loose somewhere... ;D

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Oldfeller on 09/15/11 at 09:10:01

Nope, you don't have to remove the head to do this stuff, just the cover.

All the cover screws come out freely but one, and that one is pretty short.

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Bubba on 09/15/11 at 09:32:19

I've pulled all the head cover bolts on a savage I fixed last winter but I had pulled the engine to helicoil a couple head cover bolts and replace the head gasket. I remembered the bolts being loooong.

That's good to know you can pull them out w/o moving the engine.
Wake, I'd say do it yourself but make sure you map out the bolt pattern and go way easy on the head cover bolts so they don't end up like the ones I fixed.
Thank OF!

Title: Re: ?? - Fixing Oil Leak @ a Shop
Post by Wake51 on 10/02/11 at 00:43:59

I wanted to give an update on my status. A friend of mine allowed me to shack up the bike in his garage this weekend to conduct the work. I've dug into the engine and sure enough the head cover came off the engine without much hassle, proving that sure enough shops are often times full of 'BS' or too afraid to do work not by the manual. I remember even telling the shop owner "make sure you put sealant on..." only to be cut off by "yeah we'll do the work right". Well as we all know, by them manual doesn't mean proper work.

Anyways, I got my hands dirty, dug into it, and with the help of the knowledge here and my Clymers I got to the plug and replaced it. Re assembly is tomorrow. As a bonus I got the satisfaction of working on it myself. My roommate rebuilt his GS 500 that he recently laid down next to me. Quite a satisfying satisfying Saturday for a couple of young guys to tear up a garage that doesn't belong to them.

Kudos to all the guidance and encouragement from this forum along the way. Feels good to tear into something that the fancy rich pants mechanical engineers at this school wouldn't be able to identify on an AutoCAD drawing. ;D Now if only I could steal his wholey goodness it's late of a girlfriend I better wrap this post up and get to bed to finish the job tomorrow. 8-)