SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Ryca rear brake adjusting /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1314247438 Message started by wombat on 08/24/11 at 21:43:58

Title: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by wombat on 08/24/11 at 21:43:58 I can’t figure out how to adjust the rear brake with Ryca’s linkage. I’ve watched the video and read the assembly guide and just don’t get it. No matter how I set things up the pedal has to be depressed way too far before the pads touch the drum. It doesn’t seem to matter how I angle the lever on the drum itself. Plus, since the arm on the rearset (which accepts the clevis) rotates 360--to any angle it's pulled to, there’s no adjustment  possible there. Maybe the connecting rod is too long. it could be a reject since the threads are all mashed up anyway. Any ideas? Could someone give me the length of their connecting rod for comparison? Dave

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by MotoBuddha on 08/25/11 at 08:51:23 It could be that the length of the tab on the lever is shorter than stock. That would change the ratio between the amount of pedal movement and brake arm movement. No amount of adjusting will change that. If that's the case, your options are: - Just get used to the longer pedal travel - Modify the tab on the brake lever, making it longer - Shorten the brake arm or fit a shorter one from some other bike - Get thicker brake shoes so they engage with less lever travel - Weld some extra material to the brake shoes where they contact the actuator rod so the shoes start out closer to the drum, requiring less pedal travel to actuate - Weld some material to the actuator rod so the shoes start out closer to the drum, requiring less pedal travel to actuate

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by RpNSht on 08/25/11 at 11:20:49 my rear brake is pretty sloppy too. ive spent a lot of time trying to get it like ryan's. (he can lock his rear up in no time at all.) but i cant figure it out for the life of me. i even had my pops take a look at it (whos an engineer) and it doesnt make sense to him either.... i did consider this: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1309536719/0 notice the rear disc brake (so tight) but it seems like its a TON of work for a stock width tire...

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/11 at 11:52:29 How about some pic's?

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by wombat on 08/26/11 at 19:11:16 140710110E0305070C53620 wrote: How about some pic's? Really nothing to show. Most bikes have a stop on the foot pedal to keep the attached arm, and its linkage rod, from letting the lever on the drum going all the way back. With this set up you simply adjust the length of the rod to get the desired amount of travel in the foot pedal. But the Ryca setup has no stop, so you are always pulling the lever on the drum its full distance no matter what the length of the adjustable rod. Which makes for a huge amount of travel in the foot pedal. The guys at Ryca aren't dumb, so there must be a solution. But it beat me.

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by verslagen1 on 08/26/11 at 19:42:01 61797B747762160 wrote: Really nothing to show. It may seem that way, but someone might see the problem you're having and set you straight.  We're kinda relying on you to know how it's supposed to be.  Yet something is still wrong.  A pic can't hurt.

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by Seroj on 08/27/11 at 07:41:22 This is a design flaw in my opinion. Wombat is right - there's no "stop" to keep the spring from pulling the pedal back all the way. No way to adjust it for more or less free play. This is because the whole rearset assembly pivots. I thought about putting some kind of pin through the rearset assembly to limit it's counterclockwise rotation, but I never got that far.

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by MotoBuddha on 08/27/11 at 10:18:57 The shoes contacting the drum is your pedal travel limiter. The shoes can't travel further, which means the cam can't turn further, which means the lever can't move further, which means the rod can't move further, which means the pedal can't move further. So the first question is, how much travel is there in the brake drum lever? Disconnect the rod and work the lever by hand. You shouldn’t have more than about a quarter inch. Even an eight inch is fine. The shoes being off the drum by a molecule’s thickness is still off. If you have more travel than a quarter inch, then it might be time to replace your shoes. If the lever doesn’t stop at all, then you have problems inside the brake. Either the cam or the spot on the shoes the cam rides are worn. Or the springs have come off. Or maybe the splines on the lever or cam are worn, or the pinch bolt is loose, allowing the lever to spin on the cam. If all that is good, then it’s a matter of adjusting the rod. Tighten the rod adjuster nut until the pedal is at the angle you want. After looking at the assembly closer, that previous statement needs to be modified. Attach the rod to the lever on the drum. Attach the clevis to the other end so there are some threads available both directions. Disassemble the footpeg-lever assembly. Connect the tab to the clevis then hold it in its approximate position. Make a temporary mark or use a piece of tape to mark the angle of the tab on the faceplate of the rearset bracket. You'll probably need an extra set of hands for the next part. Hold the locking ring and tab in position and slide the bolt-footpeg-lever-locating pin assembly through the tab and locking ring and into the hole in the bracket, keeping the lever at approximately the desired angle. If the locating pin won't mesh with one of the holes in the tab, move it to a different hole on the lever and try again, and again, until you get the best match you can. Then disconnect the clevis, remove all the rearset parts, tighten the locking ring (rotating the footrest so the locating pin fits into the notch), and bolt the rearset assembly to the bracket. Reattach the clevis. Check the pedal for position by sitting on the bike.  Fine tune the position by adjusting the clevis on the rod -- tighten to raise the pedal tip, loosen to lower it. I haven’t measured, but I’m guessing the stub on the brake pedal is about half as long as the lever on the brake. That means the pedal would move about twice as far as the brake lever. A lot of slop at the brake means even more at the pedal.

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by phantom on 08/28/11 at 13:45:55 Wombat: Lets see if this helps. 1. open the brake lever return spring a little. 2. reset the brake lever,  there is a scribe line on the brake shaft. Position the brake lever pinch slot at about a 2 o'clock position to the scribe line. 3. Adjust your brake pedal as desired utilizing the rotating cam and pin. Make sure the pin is properly recessed in the brake pedal arm or the large serated nut will not look straight and seated properly. When finished, you will have about 1/4 inch travel at the brake lever and 3/4 inch at the brake pedal.   Have Fun!  Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by MotoBuddha on 08/28/11 at 15:02:14 352D2F202336420 wrote: Could someone give me the length of their connecting rod for comparison? Tip to tip in a straight line, 21 7/8"

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by wombat on 08/29/11 at 22:22:09 I already have the pinch slot at the 2 o'clock position in relation to the scribe line. But by having the lever pointing so far back, the hook on the return spring no longer makes constant contact with the lever. Not sure what you mean by "open the brake lever return spring a little." If I uncoil it a bit (which is would be hard to do as it is tightly wound) the spring would make even less contact. Please explain. 262227203D3A333126540 wrote: Wombat: Lets see if this helps. 1. open the brake lever return spring a little. 2. reset the brake lever,  there is a scribe line on the brake shaft. Position the brake lever pinch slot at about a 2 o'clock position to the scribe line. 3. Adjust your brake pedal as desired utilizing the rotating cam and pin. Make sure the pin is properly recessed in the brake pedal arm or the large serated nut will not look straight and seated properly. When finished, you will have about 1/4 inch travel at the brake lever and 3/4 inch at the brake pedal.   Have Fun!  Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by wombat on 08/29/11 at 22:50:40 I guess I'm not making myself clear. What I'm trying to do is reduce the play in the foot pedal, thereby decreasing the distance the pedal travels. What you seem to be describing is how to adjust the intial angle of the pedal--which is not my issue.   All bikes I've ever seen with rear drum brakes, even the stock S40, have a stop to limit how high the pedal can go. Once the pedal is at that stop, held there by the brake's spring, you take up on the rod (or cable) to reduce play, or loosen the adjusting nut to increase play. You seem to imply that there is a way to change the amount of travel in the brake drum lever. Please explain how (and not be changing brake shoes, mine are brand new. Plus you should be able to adjust travel as the shoes wear down). Thanks for your suggestions.       47657E65487F6E6E626B0A0 wrote: The shoes contacting the drum is your pedal travel limiter. The shoes can't travel further, which means the cam can't turn further, which means the lever can't move further, which means the rod can't move further, which means the pedal can't move further. So the first question is, how much travel is there in the brake drum lever? Disconnect the rod and work the lever by hand. You shouldn’t have more than about a quarter inch. Even an eight inch is fine. The shoes being off the drum by a molecule’s thickness is still off. If you have more travel than a quarter inch, then it might be time to replace your shoes. If the lever doesn’t stop at all, then you have problems inside the brake. Either the cam or the spot on the shoes the cam rides are worn. Or the springs have come off. Or maybe the splines on the lever or cam are worn, or the pinch bolt is loose, allowing the lever to spin on the cam. If all that is good, then it’s a matter of adjusting the rod. Tighten the rod adjuster nut until the pedal is at the angle you want. After looking at the assembly closer, that previous statement needs to be modified. Attach the rod to the lever on the drum. Attach the clevis to the other end so there are some threads available both directions. Disassemble the footpeg-lever assembly. Connect the tab to the clevis then hold it in its approximate position. Make a temporary mark or use a piece of tape to mark the angle of the tab on the faceplate of the rearset bracket. You'll probably need an extra set of hands for the next part. Hold the locking ring and tab in position and slide the bolt-footpeg-lever-locating pin assembly through the tab and locking ring and into the hole in the bracket, keeping the lever at approximately the desired angle. If the locating pin won't mesh with one of the holes in the tab, move it to a different hole on the lever and try again, and again, until you get the best match you can. Then disconnect the clevis, remove all the rearset parts, tighten the locking ring (rotating the footrest so the locating pin fits into the notch), and bolt the rearset assembly to the bracket. Reattach the clevis. Check the pedal for position by sitting on the bike.  Fine tune the position by adjusting the clevis on the rod -- tighten to raise the pedal tip, loosen to lower it. I haven’t measured, but I’m guessing the stub on the brake pedal is about half as long as the lever on the brake. That means the pedal would move about twice as far as the brake lever. A lot of slop at the brake means even more at the pedal.

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by phantom on 08/31/11 at 06:42:14 Wombat, I went back out to my bike and removed the pin holding the brake rod to the brake pedal upper arm, in other words, it is disconnected. I left the brake lever go to it's relaxed position. At this point the brake cam shaft with a serated line was positionned at 11:00 o'clock. The brake lever pinched slot was at about 2:00 o'clock relative to the scribe line. When I re-installed the pin securing the brake rod to the brake pedal upper arm, the brake pedal is sitting at about 3:30 position. The brake pedal upper arm is sitting at about 11:00 o'clock position. Motobuddha previously stated that the brake shoe contacting the drum is your lower stop which is correct, your upper stop limit is controlled by the resistance of the overhaul system. I will now explain this upper limit resistance: The brake rod attach point to the brake lever makes contact with the inside of the brake lever. If you had the brake rod disconnected at the brake pedal upper arm you will find as the spring attempts to return the brake arm releasing the brake, the brake rod makes contact inside the swivel joint at the bottom the brake rod. When you pull the brake rod upward to reattach at the brake pedal upper arm you feel the resistance and this resistance is your upper limit. Have fun! Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by Chicagobob on 08/31/11 at 07:53:03 Don't know if this helps, but if the rearsets are like those from Tarozzi, the lever angle is adjustable by disassembling the unit and placing the pin in a different hole, the holes are at different degrees around the perimeter of the mounting bolt, so each one gives you a slightly different lever angle.  You might be able to get better leverage and comfort that way.

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by wombat on 08/31/11 at 15:01:33 First, realize you have been dealing with a mechanical idiot. Given that, let’s continue: My brake lever, rod, connections, and foot pedal are set up as you describe. This gives the foot pedal 1” of play. Not great, but acceptable. Got it. No problem. What I still can’t figure out is how do I make adjustments to reduce this play now, and also in the future when play increases because the brake pads are wearing down? To reduce the distance the foot pedal travels, you have to reduce the distance the lever at the brake travels What nut do I tighten (loosen?), what widget do I spin to make this happen?   Thanks once again. 383C393E23242D2F384A0 wrote: Wombat, I went back out to my bike and removed the pin holding the brake rod to the brake pedal upper arm, in other words, it is disconnected. I left the brake lever go to it's relaxed position. At this point the brake cam shaft with a serated line was positionned at 11:00 o'clock. The brake lever pinched slot was at about 2:00 o'clock relative to the scribe line. When I re-installed the pin securing the brake rod to the brake pedal upper arm, the brake pedal is sitting at about 3:30 position. The brake pedal upper arm is sitting at about 11:00 o'clock position. Motobuddha previously stated that the brake shoe contacting the drum is your lower stop which is correct, your upper stop limit is controlled by the resistance of the overhaul system. I will now explain this upper limit resistance: The brake rod attach point to the brake lever makes contact with the inside of the brake lever. If you had the brake rod disconnected at the brake pedal upper arm you will find as the spring attempts to return the brake arm releasing the brake, the brake rod makes contact inside the swivel joint at the bottom the brake rod. When you pull the brake rod upward to reattach at the brake pedal upper arm you feel the resistance and this resistance is your upper limit. Have fun! Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by phantom on 08/31/11 at 18:39:20 Wombat,First you should still have some thread at the forward end of the brake rod, about a 1/4 inch. you can use to shorten it . The back end at the brake rod should be flush with the nut . Second you can relocate the brake lever forward one more seration on the brake cam scribe line this will also shorten the pedal travel .  Third you can relocate the pedal cam and pin. All will decrease the travel required to apply the brake . However make sure the back wheel is still free to rotate. Have Fun Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by phantom on 09/01/11 at 04:34:00 Wombat, My third step was not correct. The pedal / arm adjustment will not change travel only reposition as to your foot requirement.  Have Fun! Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by wombat on 09/01/11 at 10:41:39 Steps #2 and #3 also not correct Tried step #1: As with step #3, this does not change the travel, it only repositions the pedal higher as you tighten up on the nut. Tried step #2: No matter where you locate the brake lever on the cam the distance (or angle) it has to travel before the pads hit the drum is always the same. Oh well, thanks for the suggestions. I appreciate your effort. 595D585F42454C4E592B0 wrote: Wombat, My third step was not correct. The pedal / arm adjustment will not change travel only reposition as to your foot requirement.  Have Fun! Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by phantom on 09/01/11 at 11:43:47 Wombat: No, step two is correct, however you are not following what I am saying. The more you move the brake cam relative to the lever forward you are decreasing the travel before brake/drum contact. If you held the brake lever at the same angle and rotated the cam with the scribe line one or two serrations counterclock wise and reconnected you would be closer to brake shoe/drum contact. This would decrease your brake pedal travel. I don't really agree with the term. but RYCA calls this preload. Remember you are looking for about a 1/4 in forward brake lever travel before the brake makes contact with the drum.  Have  fun!  Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by wombat on 09/01/11 at 13:55:14 You're probably right. Ryan of Ryca explains how this is done in a new video he just posted on youtube. Check it out. And thanks once again!   4B4F4A4D50575E5C4B390 wrote: Wombat: No, step two is correct, however you are not following what I am saying. The more you move the brake cam relative to the lever forward you are decreasing the travel before brake/drum contact. If you held the brake lever at the same angle and rotated the cam with the scribe line one or two serrations counterclock wise and reconnected you would be closer to brake shoe/drum contact. This would decrease your brake pedal travel. I don't really agree with the term. but RYCA calls this preload. Remember you are looking for about a 1/4 in forward brake lever travel before the brake makes contact with the drum.  Have  fun!  Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by phantom on 09/01/11 at 15:03:33 Wombat, Yes a picture is worth a thousand words. But thanks for you reassurance.  Have Fun  Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by rycamotors on 09/01/11 at 16:26:39 I just posted a video on our youtube account with a tip on the rear brake.

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by MotoBuddha on 09/01/11 at 19:37:46 Here's a thought. The more the tab on the pedal angles toward the back, rather that sticking straight up, the more the tab is moving upward rather than forward when the pedal is pressed. (It takes forward movement to pull the lever on the drum, right?) If the tab is moving upward, it takes more pedal travel to move the tab enough to engage the brake. So if the tab isn't already nearly straight up, set it so it is, then readjust the lever on the drum so it connects to the rod, which is now further forward.

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by phantom on 09/02/11 at 03:27:34 MotoBuddha, good analysis. Step three is back in play.  Have Fun Phantom

Title: Re: Ryca rear brake adjusting Post by MotoBuddha on 09/03/11 at 10:21:29 Another thing effecting brake setup is the position of the axle. The brake rod is a fixed length (unless you modify it). So if the wheel/axle assembly is more forward or rearward in order to tension the belt (or chain) properly, it changes the angles of the brake actuation lever and the tab on the pedal. I'm doing a chain conversion, so I have more options regarding axle position. Here's mine set up with the axle tick mark at the farthest reference line. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/376e7ac4.jpg http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/f4760bee.jpg Travel in the brake actuation lever is about 3/16". The travel at the end of the pedal is about 3/4". I might need to change the angle of the pedal once I get the seat on and sit in riding position. If I needed to move the rear wheel/axle forward, I'd have to angle the brake actuation lever more to the rear -- or shorten the rod and rethread the end. Angling the actuation lever further back makes the spring useless. But I don't think it's really necessary, because the internal brake springs are pulling on the shoes, which make the cam and lever want to snap back into place.

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