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Message started by Tehrifleman on 08/23/11 at 23:16:32

Title: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Tehrifleman on 08/23/11 at 23:16:32

Got a Stage IV jet kit off Ebay. Put in a wide pipe with a relatively low restriction. Now I have to crank 4-5 times to start. Is this a petcock problem? Idle screw setting? I see some air bubbles in the clear fuel filter, what's up with that? Am I cranking to fill the bowl? Thanks to anyone who can help. BTW, my Savage wakes up the neighbors now. Mission accomplished! ;D

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by verslagen1 on 08/23/11 at 23:26:38

have you adjusted your decomp lately?

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Routy on 08/24/11 at 04:19:46

PP (petcock paranoia) is setting in at an alarming rate ! I think I'l buy some stocks in Raptor !

To try to help,.....I would think if you see any air in the fuel line it would be caused from an intermittent fuel supply from the tank. If you are getting this while on "prime", you're outta gas. If you are not on "prime" while working on the carb/fuel system, you should be.
W/ it on "prime", loosen the carb drain screw,....the air/bubbles will go on thru into the carb bowl and no more should appear, and the carb will fill up,.....providing you shut the drain off.

And are you talking 4-5 engine revolutions ? Sounds normal to me.

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/24/11 at 06:42:45

Im assuming you arent letting it sit long enough to evaporate he gas down in the bowl,, so,, , what are your Start procedures? What were they before you rejeted? Mine doesnt want to light off even on a warm day after sitting a few days unless I hit the choke, If I so much as turn the gas 1/8th turn, its done, not staring till I let it sit a while, seem most things have a "personality" & if we dont work with it, itll be a hassle.
I would, just for the sake of figuring things out, put it on prime to start. Might as well just eliminate gas in the bowl as a problem, then do everything just as you have been,, & see if tht makes a difference.

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Oldfeller on 08/24/11 at 10:20:03

Put the bike in prime, whack the float bowl a couple of times with a big screwdriver handle and try starting it again after letting it sit for an hour.

BE PATIENT, help is coming ..... if it runs good after this, you know something. If it doesn't, you know something else. Both ways are valuable data.

Obviously every responder so far thinks something is up, but nobody is gonna say the evil petcork word unless you do a few simple tests first.

The tests are simple enough and an hour isn't very long to invest in keeping everybody happy.

Report back when you are done and tell us what happened.

Hint: when you finish that, then they will want you to do Serobot's Test to see if your diaphragm is leaking any gasoline. You could do it now, but that would be cheating.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429

;)

Cutting to the chase and getting a Raptor right off the bat without allowing them to get you to fiddle a bit and dicky around with it a few times spoils all their fun. You are supposed to be "analyzing your issues" now, not jumping to a conclusion by going and doing something that always works.

Then they want to yell at me for "shotgunning" and spreading "petcork paranoia" because you took a shortcut.

Shame on you ..... you will be getting me into trouble again.

You see, you can get a petcork to "get better" temporarily by changing out the vac hose and putting clamps on it (improves the suck a little). This is cheap, and it works until things get worse, then it stops working. They know that, but it is one of the traditional steps they want you to go through.

Gotta keep up our traditions you know.

::)

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Serowbot on 08/24/11 at 10:52:26

Let's just try to help people... Petcock test is a part of that... ;)...

Personally,.. I think the hard starting is just the price you're gonna' pay for an open pipe...
I'd try the petcock test,..
How to check your petcock,... (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1)
...if that ain't it,... you'd probably do better installing a baffle...

(maybe, it's the sugar your neighbor put in your crankcase)... ;D...

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Oldfeller on 08/24/11 at 11:13:27

Yeah, what Serobot said !!! Read that thread carefully.

+1

Also, since you are doing performance mods you are likely going to become a wicker --- if you do go to wicking at speed, please understand the vac petcock isn't necessarily going to want to supply enough gasoline as fast as your modified high revving engine wants to use it up.

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by bill67 on 08/24/11 at 11:16:18

37060B110A050F060E020D630 wrote:

If it started before you put on the open pipe it has nothing to do with the petcock.

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Oldfeller on 08/24/11 at 11:22:46

Bill has said a true thing, with zero back pressure in the exhaust system all fuel mix issues are aggravated and all fuel subsystems are put under stress because they are operating outside their design parameters.

Sticking in a baffle (good advice) provides some back pressure and the constant velocity carburetor will work a bit better and there will be a wee bit more stable suction on the intake side to correctly operate the vac petcock.

Diamond Jim peed blood trying to get the straight pipe on Black Beauty to work right, but he wound up putting a baffle in it in the end. And he was pretty good with tuning a Savage carb set up.

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Bubba on 08/24/11 at 11:52:06

TRM, are you choking the bike when starting? If not, then do so. If it fires up on choke then you're still too lean. You can try to mess with the air mix screw and see if that helps also.
Caution - if you haven't taken the brass plug out of the air mix screw be especially careful doing so.

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Tehrifleman on 08/24/11 at 21:04:43

OK. Startup procedure. Fuel is on, choke is all on. Won't start at all at half choke, and wants to pull the choke handle in by itself. I crank 3 times full choke, smell gasoline, then get a start. Does that help any? I'm going to get the Raptor petcock anyway, but I'm also prolly going to be changing out the starter. Lots of cranks building up on it. The pipe has a baffle, but it is still pretty open. It could be that the fuel in the bowl is evaporating, startup is harder on a hot day.

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/24/11 at 21:28:53

Before you do anything that spends $$$, try what someone else said,,put some restriction in the exhaust, heck, anything, just wad up some stainless steel & poke in the end O the pipe,, see if it changes how it starts,

IDK about that It wants to close the choke itself, but Ive seen mine wiggle while I was startin, too,,

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Routy on 08/24/11 at 22:54:20

1F2E2339222D272E262A254B0 wrote:

OK. It could be that the fuel in the bowl is evaporating, startup is harder on a hot day.

---------------------------------------------------------
Is there anything hard about loosening the drain screw to see if the bowl has fuel in it ?

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/25/11 at 03:33:56

Put it on prime & wait a few seconds & yyoull know its full,

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Routy on 08/25/11 at 05:13:17

2A353334292E1F2F1F27353972400 wrote:

Put it on prime & wait a few seconds & yyoull know its full,

Not if the float is stuck in the up position :o

Come on,.....just loosen the drain screw,...it'll only hurt for a minute !

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by Oldfeller on 08/25/11 at 06:07:10

Routy, that's why we tell them to do the whack it with the screwdriver 2-3 times on the float bowl trick. He should do this at the start of any test session just to make sure his float isn't stuck at the end of its travel from the last episode.

He's gonna do it again right after he puts on his Raptor before starting the bike, he's gotta recover from the last episode.

And no, I don't think the Raptor is necessarily going to fix all of what he has going on -- it will just thin the herd a good bit. Then we can analyze what he has left with some level of certainty.

====================

The starter is durable, don't sweat using it some. Plus it is expensive, even bought used. Rule of thumb is you check the starter for "getting warm" -- if so cool out on cranking it for a bit until it cools down.

If you do just go and replace yours, I want the old one .... ;)

====================

Here's to hoping you jest have a split diaphragm in your vac petcork --- mainly cause iffin it ain't, you got some other issues to work through there partner.

You took your carb apart, and that is a whole other can of worms as you touched every critical part inside it ....

Title: Re: Hard cold starting after carb kit install
Post by verslagen1 on 08/25/11 at 11:43:15

6D5C514B505F555C545857390 wrote:

I crank 3 times full choke, smell gasoline, then get a start.
It could be that the fuel in the bowl is evaporating, startup is harder on a hot day.

A little clarification please... what do you mean "crank 3 times"?
Cranking it 3 revolutions would be about normal.
Cranking it 3 times for 30 second each would be about Abbe normal.

And, unless your bike is too hot to touch when you go to start it up, and you rode it in the last 24 hours, evaporating all of the gas in the bowl would be quite abbe normal. But if you didn't have much gas in it in the 1st place... such as is it full of water from a bad fill up? Go ahead and drain it into a cup and let it settle again.

And my ealier question about the decomp adjustment may seem obscure. Too tight an adjustment on the decomp will make for prolonged starting. Too loose and it may stall. Mine starts on the 1st rev usually.