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Message started by mmosel on 08/08/11 at 20:37:26

Title: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by mmosel on 08/08/11 at 20:37:26

So, after running my bike with the Emgo Shorty, I decided that as much as I loved the sound, it was just a tad too loud. My mission is to muffle it by 10 to 15% only.

First thing I did was take off the Shorty muffler from my bike.

The end cap is screwed on by three screws. Unscrew those and then try to pull the end off. I couldn't pull it off with my hands. I finally used the end of a wooden hammer. I stuck it in the end there and gently pried it off. Was actually easy this way.

Next comes the baffle itself. This thing does not want to come out easily. But if you stick a screw driven in the narrow end, and then rest it on the little edge of the baffle, then hammer it hard a few times, the baffle comes loose.

Here's what it looked like when I pulled it out! This is a brand new muffler, ridden one time! :o

http://https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ZqHbSAs9Ygo/TkCnup2uckI/AAAAAAAAAEk/qk9UzvH7IrQ/s640/IMG_20110808_184254.jpg

Next I decided I'd experiment with adding something to the baffle, to perhaps create a little more back pressure, and maybe dampen the sound just a little. I read somewhere else that people have put sink crumb catchers on the ends with mild success. I went for the huge stainless washer ( way cheaper ) and I spaced it out with nuts and washers. Air can flow around the side and through the middle. If it needs more flow, I can either drill holes in the washer, or I can space it out more. Or I can just remove it and the holes will stay patched by the bolts.

http://https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Dupi11fVxGM/TkCnvxQcnSI/AAAAAAAAAEo/31YA66T_1So/s800/IMG_20110808_194843.jpg

Next I picked up some proper material from a local bike shop. Was only 6.95 for the pro stuff. Then I wrapped it up with tape first, and then wire ( removed the tape ).

http://https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XbiDVeePs0c/TkCnwmOQuGI/AAAAAAAAAEs/1S84I6yloxo/s640/IMG_20110808_200120.jpg

Now just work it back into the muffler, being careful to push the wire through the inner lip. Takes some patience.

Tip: Wear gloves when handling the fiberglass stuff.

http://https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-EQZqIT9dJD4/TkCnx1aO4uI/AAAAAAAAAEw/jEUoYI_Y24A/s800/IMG_20110808_200329.jpg

And there you have it. A properly packed muffler! Now to get it on the bike and determine if it has actually lowered the volume or not.
Stay tuned...

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/11 at 22:23:32

It looks like a smart job,, I sure like the way you did that washer,

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by Gyrobob on 08/09/11 at 04:52:51

5A454344595E6F5F6F57454902300 wrote:

It looks like a smart job,, I sure like the way you did that washer,

You did two changes at the same time. I'd like to hear what it sounds like with each change by itself, before using them together.

IOW, what does it sound like with the proper insulation and no washer?,... and what does it sound like with the washer but no insulation,... THEN, both changes together.

Fiberglass insulation either burns up and disintegrates right away, or soon thereafter, or some time after that. They just don't make any stuffing that lasts very long for our kind of situation where, under full throttle, the exhaust is REALLY hot and pulsing like crazy.

You might try using stainless steel packing,... the stuff they use for kitchen scrubbing. It's a bit of a gamble because the alloy they use for that varies widely. Get a few packs at Walmart, etc. Cheap.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by drums1 on 08/09/11 at 05:23:14

I tried the stainless kitchen scrubber stuff once. It made no difference in the sound. I then tried regular steel wool. It's more dense, but melts down to a ball and blows out the rear. I ended up using just a washer, inserted in the front of baffle, so it wouldn't blow out. Air flows through, and around it. Sounds good to me. Not too loud, not too quiet.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by Gyrobob on 08/09/11 at 05:53:30

5A4C4B534D0F3E0 wrote:

The stainless steel scrubber stuff doesn't work very well unless you fill in just about all of the volume of the chamber it is in. For example, in this Emgo Shorty muffler, the fiberglass (stock and mmosel's repack) filled in much less than the whole volume. If the scrubber stuff were installed that way, I doubt it would make much diff either. In any event, the stainless scrubber stuff won't absorb as much sound as the fiberglass,.. but it usually won't vaporize fairly soon like fiberglass and steel wool.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by thumperclone on 08/09/11 at 06:59:25

FMF premier multi layer

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by mmosel on 08/09/11 at 15:40:18

Yeah, not sure how long this new packing will last. Some people have reported 4000 miles on their bikes, but that naturally will vary bike to bike. There is also some stainless steal wool packing out there that I might try later on.

Here's one on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Stainless-Steel-Muffler-Packing-Exhaust-Silencer-Repack-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem56454e7042QQitemZ370529955906QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

This next link looks pretty good:

http://www.amazon.com/Two-Brothers-Racing-Stainless-005-10038S/dp/B000WKFNY6

Also, I know I did two mods at once. And that does make it hard to know exactly what is doing what to the sound. But I didn't feeling like redoing it 4 times, so I just took a chance and went for both. I'm going to go start it up in just a bit.

OR maybe ceramic wool is the ticket?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEsLktGzNx8

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by MotoBuddha on 08/09/11 at 15:54:01

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/07107f5a.jpg

I had some of this stuff left over from my other bike. It was tricky to get into the cone. I'll have to see how it works.

http://areapnolimits.com/silentsport.html

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by mmosel on 08/09/11 at 16:11:24

Success!!!!!

I just fired it up and it sounds super tight and very sporty, without being obnoxious. I think I changed the sound and muffled it by 15 to 20%.

It is true though, that I don't know exactly how much the washer is doing. If the fiberglass burns out over time, then I'll probably notice a difference in volume, and I'll then be able to tell exactly how much the washer is doing. I could take off the washer, but I'm too lazy and I'm super happy with the sound. Maybe I can record it.

This is also the first time I've run it with the new k&n air filter (drop in ). I'm gonna go take a short ride downtown now and see how she runs. :D

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by WD on 08/09/11 at 18:40:02

Next time the packing burns out, go to a woodstove/fireplace shop. Buy a couple sheets of woodstove packing,goes between the firebox and the top. If the shop is really god, they will carry what you really need. ASBESTOS wool. Or wrap the core with woodstove door gasket rope. The flat kind.

My muffler is packed with asbestos wool, copper scrubbies, stainless scrubbies and some bronze window screen to hold it all together. Still sounds like a helo, but not a Huey.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by mmosel on 08/09/11 at 21:27:55

All good tips and feedback!

WD, good stuff. Although I think I'd rather deal with ceramic than asbestos.

I might at some point experiment with adding something down the other end of the pipe for kicks.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by markbacon on 08/10/11 at 19:29:03

What I found with mine was that the perforated screen welded in halfway down the core creates a high pressure area that will eat its way through glass packing around the screen, no matter how tightly packed. To give gases some way around the screen, relieve the pressure and preserve the packing, I wrapped the core with three layers of coarse stainless mesh, then tight packed (as in need a rubber hammer to refit the core) glass.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by mmosel on 08/10/11 at 20:11:55

Yeah I've been looking for some cheap stainless mesh screen. Haven't found much available yet. There are a few small pieces on Ebay, but it seems pricey. I'd like to find a cheap source for the stuff.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by mmosel on 08/12/11 at 20:19:01

Muffler Update.

I decided to pull the baffle out again today. I found some mesh screen from a kitchen anti-splatter doohicky. I first wrapped the baffle in one layer of the screen. Then I wrapped the fiberglass packing. Then I wrapped another layer of the screen around that and wound it up tight with some tape and then the wire for when the tape burns away. I don't know how long the mesh screen will last, but it's an experiment.

I also put in a 1.5 inch crumb cup at the exit of the baffle, and then put the washer back in place.

I finally removed the mixture screw plug and I've started dialing that in.

I just got back from a ride and not only does it sound even better now, it has restored some of the power that I lost. I might still have to rejet, or perhaps try the white spacer mod, I'll see how the power feels after the next few rides. It's sounds freaking awesome! And it gets noticed, but it's not obnoxious. So it should be interesting to see how long it stays this way. Hopefully for a while!

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by Gyrobob on 08/16/11 at 20:00:42

I just had a look at the insides of our mufflers for the Double RYCA Build.

Pathetic.

The fiberglass in there looks like it'll be about as effective and durable as toilet paper.

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/RYCAEmgomufflerpack3Large.jpg

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/RYCAEmgomufflerpack2Large.jpg

I'll be checking out some of the sources you guys mentioned for more durable and sound-deadening stuffing.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/11 at 20:02:26

rather than wrapping it with wire, use expanded sheet metal.
you need to fully support it.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by Gyrobob on 08/16/11 at 20:07:14

2C3F2829363B3D3F346B5A0 wrote:

rather than wrapping it with wire, use expanded sheet metal.
you need to fully support it.

There needs to be a lot more stuffing as well,... stuffing that won't burn up and disintegrate.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/11 at 20:07:26

And it doesn't need to have full coverage. some holes is fine.
the purpose of the fiberglass is create an infinite number of passages for the gas to expand into, thereby deadening the sound.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by Gyrobob on 08/16/11 at 20:09:40

7D6E7978676A6C6E653A0B0 wrote:

And it doesn't need to have full coverage. some holes is fine.
the purpose of the fiberglass is create an infinite number of passages for the gas to expand into, thereby deadening the sound.

I agree. The first couple of inches of the holes should be uncovered to let the noise pulse into the chamber with the stuffing.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/11 at 20:15:00

734D465B565B56340 wrote:

There needs to be a lot more stuffing as well,... stuffing that won't burn up and disintegrater.

perlite ;D

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by mmosel on 08/17/11 at 01:02:47

Perlite lol. In theory, if it could be contained, and if it wouldn't melt, it might actually work.

Anyway, after my 75 mile ride on Sunday, I noticed that the chrome on my muffler is already turning blue in one spot - near where it attaches to the segway pipe. There is no 'thickness' there really, so I'm not surprised. Looks like I might be painting it sooner than later.

Another day in the life of a muffler experiment...

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by Gyrobob on 08/17/11 at 07:33:20

How about this stuff?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Stainless-Steel-434-Wool-Roll-1-lb-Reel-Coarse-/310322027669?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4840a25c95

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/11 at 08:16:58

They said 434 won't rust, but I know that 400 series ss rusts so would treat that claim with suspicion.

But other than that, looks interesting. give 'er a go.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by bill67 on 08/17/11 at 08:21:51

Fiberglass made for mufflers last a few thousand miles,You have to pack it tight so it doesn't slide down to the end.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by mmosel on 08/20/11 at 01:16:08

That stainless steel looks like a decent buy for 1lb.

Title: Re: Baffled - How to repack an Emgo Shorty Muffler
Post by mmosel on 08/20/11 at 01:48:13

I am still running an ugly u-bolt clamp and it sucks. I discovered my joint is leaking today. The clamp I ordered turned out to be too large. It said 1.75, but they didn't list the min clamping range, which turned out to be 1.82" or something. Other ads on Ebay gave better info.

So, some ads (from dif sellers) for a t-bolt clamp rated at 1.75" are actually different clamps. Pays to look for a min clamping range.