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Message started by mmosel on 08/03/11 at 20:25:38

Title: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/03/11 at 20:25:38

Ok I hate posting this because there are a trillion muffler posts it seems. Forgive me for adding yet one more muffler post. :o

I just have a couple of quick questions.

I'm trying to install a Shorty Reverse Cone muffler. It came with a cool 3 piece reducer and I only needed the outer sleeve to make it fit perfectly.
However, it seems I'm a bit screwed without the proper 'bend' in the adapter area. I can't seem to get the header on straight and flat against the engine without seriously muscling it on there. I figure that thing needs to line up just right. So, do I just finesse the hell out of it, or do I need to get a proper bended adapter? It's a shame because it just slips on there nice and snug. I don't want to do any damage to the current pipes though.

So, am I stuck going to a muffler shop? And, does anyone know the proper angle off hand? 15 degrees or something?

I had this fantasy that I'd be able to just do it in one go. I was so close too. Oh well, I guess i won't be firing it up tonight.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by drums1 on 08/03/11 at 20:38:15

Ya that 1 little bend sure throws things off, eh? I used to work at a Car X, so I just rode bike to work and bent a short extension to fit, while on lunch. I'm guessing any muffler shop with a pipe bender can make you one up fairly cheap. Best to ride bike there, with the muffler too, so he can match it up as he makes it. Not sure what the exact angle is.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/03/11 at 21:43:54

Any idea what a fair price for a small adapter like this might be?

Ok looks like it needs to be 7 degrees or something.

Hopefully no more than 10-15 bucks.

Man, that stock muffler is a tank! It looks kinda like a bomb in a way. Feels like one too. But it sounds like, a sewing machine. :P
( it's not THAT bad )

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by drums1 on 08/04/11 at 06:20:59

I would think no more than $20. I agree with the sewing machine comparison. Mine never had an OE muffler since I've had it, but I have heard one--just recently. I would go straight pipe before OE muffler.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by thumperclone on 08/04/11 at 07:18:37

ive paid $0 > $5 for 1 3/4" X 7" pipe adaptor with 10 deg bend

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by EJID on 08/04/11 at 07:22:59

Here's a pic of the one I got when I put on a Softail pipe.

7 inch straight and 7 inch with about an 8 degree bend
http://p1.bikepics.com/2010/03/20/bikepics-1930927-full.jpg

Worked ok for me and allows for you to do some minor adjustments in twisting the adapter & headpipe some to get the right angle to mount the pipe. Not sure exactly how things will line up with the muffler you've got, but it's a cheap starting point.

Also, if you take the header and the pipe to the muffler shop with you they will be able to match the ID and OD of each pipe as needed so no additional adapter sleeve is required.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/04/11 at 17:30:05

Ok. Got a pipe bent! Found a local shop, the guys gave it to me for free.
Hopefully the bend is enough. I have to hacksaw off a little bit of the header pipe. And I need to figure out how to clamp the bigger end properly. I might have to hacksaw a slit into it. It's tight but not that tight.

Thanks for all your feedback so far.

http://https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-81-ZgOBF1k4/Tjs4vDa548I/AAAAAAAAAC8/jQg5fzKwE1Y/s640/pipe_bent.jpg

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/04/11 at 23:17:16

Ok, well, I just busted the stock muffler clamp.

I shimmed it trying to squeeze the pipe and tighten it down onto the header. I cut some slots in the adapter so it would come together a bit, but the clamp just didn't have the strength. I tried another clamp and it couldn't tighten it either.

So what are you all using for clamps on these pipes? Should I just go for the ugly U clamp for automotive use?

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by EJID on 08/05/11 at 07:43:35

The ugly U-Bolts will work, but I would go for a Harley style 1 3/4" clamp.

I found a 2pack on ebay for like $12 when I got mine, you might have to shop around. Bot found some at a dollar store.

Here's what I found on ebay real quick

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cobra-Stainless-T-Bolt-Exhaust-Clamp-1-75-ID-/370483727339?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item56428d0beb
http://i.ebayimg.com/01/!B95D(-wEGk~$(KGrHqYOKi!Ey77ySJBsBM7D6ct82w~~_12.JPG

Personally, I got this style:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rush-Exhaust-1-3-4-TORCA-EXHAUST-CLAMP-65283-/320718829351?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4aac54f727
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqN,!jkE3LlE-htKBOB!pt5(f!~~0_12.JPG

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/05/11 at 16:16:22

Well, I picked up a U-clamp and also a standard stainless steel hose clamp. Any reason the hose clamp wouldn't be fine? It's stainless I think, which means the melting point is well over 2000 degrees F. I think it looks better than the ugly U-clamp.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by EJID on 08/05/11 at 17:11:51

2F2F2D31272E420 wrote:

Might work, but probably does not have enough clamping strength to cinch down real tight to eliminate exhaust leaks. :-[

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/05/11 at 17:36:32

Ok I've got it all on. I'm transferring some pictures now.

The clamp is on but I still think I will have to replace it. I have a U clamp, but I'm not sure I want to use it or not, so ugly. I do plan on wrapping the header and segway pipe anyway, so that will cover the looks of it.

Hopefully it won't spring any leaks. So far it doesn't seem like there are any, but I've only started it and ran it for a few minutes.

Also not sure how hot this exhaust might get, so we'll see if the silicone gasket will hold.

Bike sounds loud, low and thumpy. Definitely something I'll have to get used to! I can always rewrap the baffle, apparently that can quieten it up, but not sure how, since the inside is almost wide open except for a small metal plate with holes in it. The baffle has holes along the inner wall of course, but I'm not sure how much sound they grab.

I'll post pics as soon as I can.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/05/11 at 18:29:13

http://https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-X_zCqJvKn7E/TjyYQQn_P4I/AAAAAAAAADU/Seu8KWL7J3Y/s800/IMG_20110805_172133.jpg

http://https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-0Iw68WzrAqA/TjyYTPFVOWI/AAAAAAAAADc/Wf4aejemNRo/s800/IMG_20110805_172154.jpg

http://https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-YmSUkZm_N7M/TjyYaj01XmI/AAAAAAAAADs/gi5nndnglsQ/s800/IMG_20110805_172209.jpg

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by EJID on 08/05/11 at 18:36:17

Looks Good!!! ;D

Looks like you used the red sealant, if so I would let it cure overnight before running it at all.

I would recommend getting a second clamp like the one holding the muffler on rather than that pipe clamp just because I think it will hold much better. Overall I like it and think with the header wrapped all the way to the muffler it will look awesome.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by MrBrownTX on 08/05/11 at 18:39:41

Excellent, I am glad you got that figured out!

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/05/11 at 18:45:01

Thanks! It's been a great learning experience. Thank god for my dremel and a metal cutting blade, because I think manually hacksawing the original header end would have taken hours.

I was afraid you might say that about the red sealant. darn, I so wanted to ride it a bit! But you're probably right, it might blow it out. :/

Only problem with one of these other clamps now is that I hope I can find one that can go on without having to take everything off again. I will do it if I have to, but I'd rather not.

Maybe I'll put the U-clamp on temporarily to help secure it while I work on getting a new clamp. I called my local HD dealer and they said all they have is a 2" clamp.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by Gyrobob on 08/06/11 at 19:06:45

2B2B2935232A460 wrote:

The red sealant is only good for maybe 400 degrees F sustained. I know the package probably says 500 with 600 intermittent, but this is pretty tough duty for the sealant,.... hi sustained temp, lots of vibration, pressure pulsing, etc.

The exhaust header near the head will be in the 800-900 degree range at full throttle. I wonder what the temp will be at that joint on a hot day going up a slight hill at a steady 70mph.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by drums1 on 08/06/11 at 20:33:20

If it fits tight and is properly seated and clamped, there is no need for silicone sealant.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by Gyrobob on 08/06/11 at 20:39:09

7C6A6D756B29180 wrote:

If it fits tight and is properly seated and clamped, there is no need for silicone sealant.

Zackly

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/07/11 at 01:01:38

Yeah, I'm not sure how well the sealant will hold. The gold stuff is only rated 50 degrees higher.

The muffler itself is sealed great. I guess I'll find out soon enough how the rest of it holds up. I still want to replace the one clamp, but I don't know yet which one can go on without taking the whole thing off again. If the sealant fails, then I'd have to take it off anyway.

I'm riding tomorrow! Can't wait to hear it open up.

I also wonder if wrapping the header pipe will make that joint hotter?
Also, would wrapping the joint eliminate leakage if the seal failed?

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by Gyrobob on 08/07/11 at 03:44:19

6C6C6E72646D010 wrote:

I still want to replace the one clamp Good idea. The skinny hose clamp doesn't have much clamping force, and it won't stay tight with the high heat, vibration, and repeated heating/cooling cycles.

If the sealant fails, then I'd have to take it off anyway. I wish I could be more encouraging, but I fear you will get more practice at exhaust system disassembly.

I also wonder if wrapping the header pipe will make that joint hotter? Yes, it will do that thing. Wrapping the header does hold heat in,.. that is why header sweaters were invented! Racers started doing it because the exhaust gas stays hotter, reducing its viscosity so it flows easier through the rest of the system.

Also, would wrapping the joint eliminate leakage if the seal failed? No.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/07/11 at 04:15:02

Thanks Gyrobob.

Ok I just scored the score of the month:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230623884094

I suggest anyone who might need a clamp like this to jump on this deal, because it's the cheapest you'll find, plus with free shipping.

So if this red sealant is a fail waiting to happen, what do you recommend then instead of the red or gold stuff?

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by Gyrobob on 08/07/11 at 04:24:27

6262607C6A630F0 wrote:

Those clamps ARE a great deal.

As Drums1 offered, a proper joint needs no sealant.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/07/11 at 04:50:55

Yeah. The segway pipe can clamp down pretty tight, but it has slits in it. I'm not sure a clamp alone can close it all the way up, it's thick metal. I wish the inside of the pipe was just a little smaller. It's not super loose or anything, but I'll feel better with some sort of sealant. I guess the DEI spray sealant might work on it. They claim a 1500 degree tolerance.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by Gyrobob on 08/07/11 at 05:17:49

0F0F0D11070E620 wrote:

How much smaller? Or,.. how much larger does the inner pipe have to be?

Muffler shops (and some racing shops) have equipment to expand or shrink tubing.

Or you could try one of these: http://cgi.ebay.com/New-1-1-2-Tail-Pipe-Expander-Kit-Exhaust-/300585705304?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45fc4ddf58

One other thought would be to shim it with some thin sheet steel.

The overall effort should be to get the pieces to just barely fit. If you have to literally force the pieces together to get them to fit over one another, you are on the right track. (Almost an interference fit) Then when you apply a heavy clamp, it becomes solid.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by 2whlthrpy on 08/07/11 at 10:36:43

IMHO those clamps look to be very thin and not strong enough to clamp the muffler.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/07/11 at 16:50:33

The muffler fit is spot on, super tight and the chrome clamp is great for that.

I was surprised by how much a simple hose clamp was able to tighten down the pipe where it connects to the header pipe. I think the new T-Bolt clamps will easily be able to tighten it down enough. They will provide more even pressure than the chrome clamp on the muffler itself. But if for some reason the T-Bolt clamp can't do it, then I'll replace it with something else.

I'll post some better pics of the clamps when they arrive, and report back on how well they actually 'clamp'.

Oh and I don't think I could expand the end of the header pipe, it's very thick, double walled hardened steel. If anything I'd get the transition pipe squeezed smaller, if they can even do that. Time will tell though if that is even needed.

I'm going to put the U-Clamp on for now, until the new clamps arrive.

Title: Re: Shorty Muffler Install
Post by mmosel on 08/07/11 at 19:57:36

My bike currently. U-clamp in place for the time being.

I rode it downtown today and it is loud. People were definitely 'noticing' it as I cruised around. Sounds very good through the gears and when accelerating. Nice rumbly sound when slowing down as well. No loud backfires at all yet. If I could dampen it by about 10 to 15% I think it would be absolutely perfect. It definitely sounds like a bike with some power now!

http://https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-levkTd_ARpU/Tj9QPjWzqII/AAAAAAAAAEA/9f96lO28BIk/s800/IMG_20110807_185929.jpg