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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1311564357 Message started by Senga on 07/24/11 at 20:25:57 |
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Title: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Senga on 07/24/11 at 20:25:57 Replaced the stock muffler this weekend with a Harley Dyna and, using Serowbot's Harley Muffler Guide, we had very few issues (Thanks Serowbot!). I absolutely love the difference in sound (goodbye go-kart), however the change increased the amount of backfires during deceleration. We tried adjusting the idle mixture screw and that seemed to help, but didn't eliminate the problem completely. The hubby and I decided to take it out for a ride and I noticed that the low end torque wasn't quite the same. We rode for about ten miles when we slowed down for a light. Hubby was slightly behind me and started waving frantically. Apparently when I slow down I'm shooting 1 1/2 foot flames out the muffler. :-/ This might be pretty cool if I were a badass, but since I'm not I need to fix this. Does anyone think the spacer mod might help? Rejet? Any other suggestions??? |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Gyrobob on 07/24/11 at 20:40:16 Yes. Rejet the main jet. Adjust the idle screw. Do the white spacer mod. Do the transient enrichment mod. Pretty impressive what kind of ripple effect you can have by just changing the back pressure, eh? Here are some threads to peruse: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1267767908 anti-backfire valve or transient enrichment valve http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1267299409 carb tuning http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1268545171 carb backfire and afterfire |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by verslagen1 on 07/24/11 at 20:43:14 have you lost your mind? you wanna fix that? that so cool! lol how's it jetted now? decel kerpows are usually due to air leaks at the header or muff clamp, check with a candle while running. don't get out of breath. ;D |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Senga on 07/24/11 at 20:47:52 3F2C3B3A25282E2C2778490 wrote:
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by verslagen1 on 07/24/11 at 20:59:50 6B5D565F59380 wrote:
Well if it's that lean, you gotta good shut off kerpow too? then you'll definitely what to read the rejet threads listed above. |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Senga on 09/04/11 at 19:31:21 Ok, so taking all of your advice we had the carb re-jetted. Since I have no idea about these things I took it and had it professionally done. A week, and $250 later, I got my baby back. They said they couldn't get rid of all of the back firing, but that it was better than it was before and that I wouldn't be shooting flames. I immediately noticed that I lost almost all of my torque and it felt like it was bogging down a lot. While taking it on extended rides we were noticing that it was STILL shooting flames. My husband also noticed that the muffler itself was glowing cherry red, not only while I'm riding, but after it's been shut off as well. Tonight we were coming home from about an hour away and decided to take the highway (I-75). Mind you this was my first experience on the highway, so I was already nervous. We had been riding for about an 20 minutes, cruising at about 70, when the bike backfired, bogged down, then the engine cut out completely. I pulled off on the side of the highway, by myself btw since the hubby was slightly ahead of me and didn't notice that I was gone. I sat there for about a minute, tried to start the bike, and luckily it did start. I mentally told myself to put my big girl panties on and get going. The hubby had pulled off about a mile up the road, so we decided to try and keep on going. We made it the rest of the way home without any issues, aside from what has become normal backfiring, bogging down and flame throwing. After getting home my husband took the bike out and really opened it up. He got off the bike and took some video of the flames while idling, as well as a picture of the glowing muffler which was taken after the bike had been off for about 30 seconds, which I'll post up here shortly. Does anyone have any recommendations at this point? My thought is that it's still running too lean. I'm convinced that they did not re-jet it properly, but not being a mechanic I really have no idea what I should do next. Should I take it back and complain, or is this just the way it is? Has anyone else experienced anything like this? I'm about ready to put the stock muffler back on and suffer through the go-kart like sound. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by mmosel on 09/04/11 at 22:43:18 Wow 250 bucks. Not cheap. The rejet is so easy too. :( I wonder what jets they put in. Also. there is a 'spacer' mod that can be done to help minimize backfiring. As for shooting flames, I'm sure a lot of the experienced people here will chime in on this soon enough. Sorry to hear of your bad luck. Did you feel like you got some power back after the rejet? I'd try to find out exactly what they did to your carb - which jets did they replace and which size jets did they put in? |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/04/11 at 23:25:19 250 DOLLARS? Thats terrible,, Il bet you coulda shipped your carb to one of the smart guys here & had it done for a LOT less,, & Il bet it would be running better,, IF youre unhappy,, take it back,, for 250 bucks, they otta stand behind it.. even if it burns their pants.. |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Routy on 09/05/11 at 06:23:29 Ok, at first you only noticed a little less low end torque, not bad, but was it for real ? From vast experience, I know that if you change the exhaust sound, it can change the mindset about performance. Second, its a louder free'er flowing muffler ! Its going to backfire louder, and shoot more...bigger flames than the stock, (no exp here, common sense only) Not that it can't be minimized somewhat, but now you have a situation where you have no idea what has been done to the carb,......scary at best. If the bike was running great before, I would have changed the muffler, then re main jetted to a 150, and see what happened, and go from there. BTW, if you were capable of changing that muffler w/o much problem, you were more than capable of changing a main jet, and maybe even doing a midrange spacer mod if needed. The tech crew here could have led you thru it. But you had it professionally done ? It couldn't have been a Suzy dealer, so did they know the bike, the carb, the muffler mod ?? |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by bill67 on 09/05/11 at 10:18:05 Senga ask the dealer what jets he but in it and maybe we could help you. |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Starlifter on 09/05/11 at 12:24:24 Sigh...this is why I've keep my bike stock all these years, it work's just fine. |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Senga on 09/05/11 at 13:43:29 @Routy- I find your comments less than helpful and more than a little bit condescending. >:( I knew that changing the back pressure would change things somewhat. I am not an idiot and can definitely tell you that I LOST torque, and that it did not get any better after the re-jet. It's not in my head as you so kindly implied. The reason I had the re-jet professionally done is because they HAVE to have more experience with doing it than I would. I'm well aware that a bigger pipe is going to backfire louder. It should NOT be throwing flames (1-1 1/2 foot) the way that it is, and the engine should not shut down at 70 mph. Maybe in your world that is ok, but "common sense" would tell you that something is wrong. In addition I have to keep the choke on at all times or the engine will stop (this was not necessary prior to the re-jet). I can deal with the backfiring, but the rest is unacceptable. @bill67 and @mmomsel- I will ask what jets they used, and thank you for the offer to help. ;) |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by LarryC on 09/05/11 at 14:06:31 WOW!!!!! Sounds like the petcock has bit the dust, check out the Serowbot petcock exam in the tech section. We'll get to the bottom of this. Where there's a wheel(or 2) there's a Way-Somebody Famous |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by drums1 on 09/05/11 at 17:52:27 My '87 has stock carb setup, HD torpedo muffler / baffle knocked out, mixture screw 2 turns out, OE air filter, OE petcock on Prime. When I shut it off after riding, I get a dull pop and a blue flame shoots out the tailpipe about 1 foot. Not sure if it does this when shifting or on decel. (Nobody ever followed me to see, and I don't look while riding.) I don't go faster than 55 since my engine got banged up, but I used to hit 85 easy. I would definately find out from your mechanic exactly what jets are in there vs. OE. Did he clean carb when rejetted or just the jets? Maybe carb has other problems not addressed. The muffler itself should definately NOT be getting that hot. Sounds kinda like a super lean condition. And as mentioned, a possible petcock issue, or both. Let us know what you find out. And good luck. |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Senga on 09/05/11 at 18:39:00 Here's a picture of the muffler after the bike had been off for about 30 seconds.... http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a20/mikeamanda/s40cherry.jpg |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Senga on 09/05/11 at 18:51:25 Here is the video of the bike sitting with us hitting the throttle. While riding the hubby says that when I'm downshifting it is a non-stop onslaught of flames.... http://youtu.be/8vZYkEj1hgc |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by groupus on 09/05/11 at 22:36:29 626D776C707665676F6176040 wrote:
i have to agree with both of these statements in some respect. i know when i ride my dad's bone stoke savage (refuses to even touch the carb tuning screw) vs. mine with (among many other things) a louder muffler, mine feels more sluggish. now, i know that my jetting may not be perfect, but i can say with some certainty that i can put down just as much or more power (read: burnouts, wheelies, quicker off the line, and general hooning around) than stock. yeah, thats not too scientific, but wtf. the feeling of less power is only because mine is louder and "complains" more under load. its a feeling, and even less scientific. Part 2: if you had the wherewithal to do research on this site about muffler modding, proper muffler alternatives, and then had the balls to go through with it, then you are definitely capable of jetting your own carb, especially when the alternative is $250 and having it done by someone who knows less about your bike than you do. not trying to criticize, but hindsight is always 20/20. just mention a muffler mod on the forum and you get 45 educated suggestions from the great people here. Ok, so cousin Jethro down at Ed & Jed's Moto-sickle Shop probably threw some smaller jets in it thinking that the flame was from too much fuel. if thats the case, you are way too lean, which causes it to run hotter and can do some nasty sh!t to your valves and other parts that, you know, make it run. lean might make the pipe glow like that. an extremely lean main could also starve the bike of fuel at high speed and cause it to shut off. 1st things 1st, find out what jets are in it and report back to the experts check the plug is the pipe bluing? if the petcock is the problem (probably not, but...), test it or try running it on prime on the highway to allow enough fuel. limit your riding for now i personally think you should sell the "glowing pipe and flameshooter" mod ;D best of luck, <- this guy |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by verslagen1 on 09/05/11 at 23:08:36 1F29222B2D4C0 wrote:
Cool, you'll want to save that video. Now let get down to brass tacks. What did jeffro do? drop the bowl, get a mirror and eye ball the jets, get the numbers. we need the numbers. You got a dyna muff, no problem. been done. Now you got the header and muffler connections leak free? Was jeffro able to do that at least? Next on the list is the TEV valve. There's a thread in the link below. open it up and clean it, just put it back together for now. OK? that's your homework for now. dang... flames 8-) |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Routy on 09/06/11 at 03:02:03 To the Dana mufflers experts here,...... is that normal to have anything inside a muffler glowing like that ? It looks like a catalitic converter inside that muffler ! Beside that, if anything ever sounded lie a go cart, that does ! Me ? (OP need not reply) I would dump that POS muffler in a heartbeat, and start over. |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by built2last66 on 09/06/11 at 06:44:21 I didn't read every post in this thread, but when I installed my HD Dyna I had blue flames shooting out of the back and major popping (even after adjusting the idle screw) until I got a #150 main jet (suggested by Serowbot and others). This is my first bike, and I was getting the bald back tire replaced at the time so I had the Suzuki shop throw in the #150 main jet and all is perfect now. And I agree with Routy.. the Dyna is not much of a upgrade in sound.. maybe a tad bit more performance, but my stock needed replacement because the previous owner had run over a curb or dumped it or something.. "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vZYkEj1hgc&feature=youtu.be" - That's how mine was, have you ever felt like a bad ass before? Welcome to the club! :D |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!!I think that Post by Serowbot on 09/06/11 at 09:08:25 I think that muffler has the center baffle punched out... ... in effect, making it a straight pipe... it may also be a Cat model (glowing at the front end))... Insert a stick into the muffler from the back end, and see if it goes more than halfway down the muffler,... if it does, the baffle is knocked out... if it stops nearer to the front, it's likely a Cat model,... if it goes all the way through, it's a non-Cat with no baffle... Get a new one... sorry... (post a pic showing how far down the stick goes, if you can)... One other thing,.. pull the vacuum line going to the right side of the carb, and see if there's any gas in that line... if there is, your petcock is bad, and the excess fuel is being burned in the exhaust pipe (flames)... I suspect a torn petcock diaphragm because the flames seem to coincide with decel (high vacuum)... a small tear will only leak at higher vacuum... Read here... it's an easy two minute test... How to check your petcock,... (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1) ;)... [edit]Very sorry you're having this problem. I feel partly responsible because you were following my instructions... I've added a warning to the tech post, to check or ask if the baffle is in tact...[/edit] Serow |
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Title: Re: Muffler is now a flame thrower!!! Post by Bubba on 09/06/11 at 09:49:14 Senga, I'd have to agree that the jets are probably too small. I put close to a straight pipe on mine and before the rejet (to larger jets) it was throwing flames too. After the rejet it doesn't flame anymore. I'm at elevation so I didn't go up too far on the jets...see signature. Hope you can get it straightened out cuz putting the stock muffler back would be an extra 15 pounds of quiet... :) |
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