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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1311352892 Message started by AlphaBarney on 07/22/11 at 09:41:31 |
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Title: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by AlphaBarney on 07/22/11 at 09:41:31 Let me say hi to everyone first. I've been lurching around the site soaking up as much info as I can. Now I've got my own question. I recently bought an 05 S40 with ~5000mi on her. The first thing I did was get the Clymer manual and go through the regular maintenance that I could do for the 5000mi interval, including the oil and filter. Which brings me to my question. The PO had been using a 20W50 conventional oil, and I noticed on my oil cap that 10W40 was the recommended weight, so I switched to that (Valvoline 10W40 4-stroke oil). I've put about 611 miles on it since changing the oil and filter and am starting to hear some noises from the engine. The noises seem to be rhythmic with the time of the stroke/piston, but isn't consistent. I seem to be hearing it mainly around 45-50mph, in 5th gear. Don't hear it when idling, cant hear it when >55-60mph because of wind noise and normal thumping. Am new to motorcycles, she's my first, but don't want to have to bring it into the shop. One of the reasons I chose the S40 was because it was supposed to be pretty easy to do most of the maintenance myself and a great overall starter bike. I tried to find a thread on it around here, but couldn't really get one, and am lost. I am wondering if I confused the engine by changing oil weight (same brand/type as PO), or if maybe the 10W40 is too thin and/or breaking down. It has been upper 90's-low 100's here in Raleigh, NC Any thoughts? I was going to just change the oil back to 20W50 to get a thicker coating for the rest of the summer, but I wanted to check here first because I know changing weights often is bad for the engine. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by Serowbot on 07/22/11 at 09:49:59 She'll be a little noisier in the heat,... that's normal for a big air-cooled thumper... air-cooled bikes have looser tolerances to account for heat expansion,... thinner cylinder walls/no water jacket to absorb noise,... and, of coarse we have big valves... all add up to more noise... 10w-40 is fine,.. as long as it's not an "energy saving" blend... 20w-50 is good too... better in summer, but not really necessary... I think you're fine... I used Valvoline 10w-40 for years... past couple,I switched to Shell Rotella T 15w-40 diesel oil... Any good quality, name brand oil is good... main thing is change it regularly. I go 2500 to 3k miles... Welcome to the site... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by AlphaBarney on 07/22/11 at 10:05:19 Thanks Sero. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't tearing apart piston rings or under-lubricating the engine. And NO! not the energy saving stuff read a lot about that stuff. I guess this weekend I can do some other work on her then. I do still need to pull the spark plug and check that. When I bought her I hadn't heard any backfires at all, but when I pulled the air filter when I got the manual I found out why-it may have been a teensy-bit dirty causing it to run rich...plug was black. Changed the air filter and plug and she's been running lean and popping on decel since. I know it's common I just have to get the stones to pull the idle mixture cap and make the adjustments mentioned around here. I read somewhere that running too lean can actually burn holes into the piston head...could that be a problem if I don't adjust the air/fuel mix? Like I said, she is straight up stock in every way right now. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by spacepirates on 07/22/11 at 10:11:54 Perhaps you would describe the noise as a "ticking" kind of sound? -- that would be the valves. they make noise. quite a bit. especially when it is hot. Check your Clymer/Owner's manual on when to adjust the valves (7500mi seems to pop into my head, but i'm not sure). Don't sweat it, ticking isn't bad, and if you search for it (ticking, valves, noise, whatever) you'll find a bunch of information on it. so much information on it, that some people get worried when they don't hear it! If the bike runs well and seems to behave like a bike should (good throttle response, no lack of power, etc) then you're good to go. Oil is a sensitive topic around here. Everyone has their own views on what you should run, why that weight/brand/type is the best, and why the others are sludge. For example, I switched to Rotella T6 5W-40 mostly for cold weather starting (though the effect is arguable). Sticking with the recommended weight is a good solid idea, and i suppose in theory it is possible that the heavier weight oil was masking some sounds, but that doesn't mean they are bad. Pick an oil that is within your budget that you (and i do mean YOU, not some random opinionated guy) have faith in and stick with it. You've got a good bike and a good forum. With a little bit of guidance and a little TLC, you can do all the maintenance on your bike and run that odometer sky high for a long time to come. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by spacepirates on 07/22/11 at 10:16:46 113C2038311231223E3529500 wrote:
Lean can be damaging, but it'd have to be a lot leaner than what stock allows and run for a long time. the idle mixture plug isn't anything to be scared of, just go slow and remember that brass is soft. if you really are scared (about the plug or about anything else), you can always call out for help. people on this forum are mighty nice, and if someone is within decent riding distance, they'll probably be happy to lend a hand. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by Boofer on 07/22/11 at 11:12:49 I have a trick when the engine seems a little loud. I raise my face shield halfway, lean closely over the tank, and hear that quiet sewing machine/Briggs & Stratton sound. Just don't get hypnotized and forget to look up or you will have other issues. I run Rotella, which is a little quieter than the Castrol imo, but you need to get used to how your engine sounds. And I think we all hate running when it's over 95 degrees and the oil looks like colored water. But it works with any good oil. Anybody remember the valve noise in the old 235 six cylinder Chevy motors? That's how you knew it was running. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by verslagen1 on 07/22/11 at 11:38:41 002D3129200320332F2438410 wrote:
How does it sound? Same sound only louder? ticking? or knocking? Even with only 5k miles on it, I'd reccomend checking the cam chain. Anyone with a new2them bike should. PO's have many times handed a maitenance issue to a newb who ignored it and then it blew up. As far as oil goes, 10w40 won't break down unless it gets really hot. Hot as in can't keep your feet on the pegs w/o burning your knees. But if it makes the noise go away, by all means feel free to use it. Valvoline is good stuff whatever weight you use. The advantage of the 10w40 is better head cooling. 20w50 is good for the crank bearings. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by AlphaBarney on 07/22/11 at 13:01:21 Thanks everyone. I have tried the face shield up trick, and leaning down. Verslagen, I would best describe it as a random rubbing/scraping noise, somewhat high pitched that comes and goes at that speed. I was confusing it for wind noise for a little until I really listened to it and put it with the stroke rhythm. I should check the valves anyway, so while I have it apart maybe I'll look at the cam chain too. I'll look at the manual today. I don't have that special tool to get the crankcase inspection cover off, the manual suggests a wide tip screwdriver, any home-made alternatives that anyone has found to work well? |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by AlphaBarney on 07/22/11 at 13:07:31 I guess I should also inform, no power loss, still have great throttle response, putts around great at 50-60mph without thought, vibration of the bike starts at about 65mph-70mph, but still runs well. And gas mileage is hold well between 50-54mpg: city-highway. Maybe I'm just babying her, I dunno. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by BurnPgh on 07/22/11 at 13:56:49 church key bottle opener and a screwdriver. Old brake pad and a pair of vise grips. Claw hammer - if its short enough you can get the claws in the groove and turn the hammer like a breaker bar. I highly suggest investing in the timing insection cover off a suzuki vs800. 'bout $10. It takes a 10mm allen key instead of a "special tool"/whatchacanjerryrig. I kept the original cover until rather recently and just effed it up more and more every time i rigged a way to get it off. got tired of it. No hassle now. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by Grand Strand on 07/22/11 at 15:00:35 2116110D33040B630 wrote:
:-? Huh? Sounds interesting but I dont understand! :-/ |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by 2whlthrpy on 07/22/11 at 16:00:59 I used a circular spark plug gapper and large vise grips to remove the inspection cover. Easy peasy. Any port in a storm. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by drulg on 07/22/11 at 16:43:27 If you can try to use an oil design for motorcycles and specially for wet clutch, motorcycle oils (and Harley oils) are different than car engine oils, since the same oil is lubricating engine, transmission and clutch they have different aditives that work better than regular engine oil that can cause your tranmission parts and clutch plates to wore out faster than what they should or clutch slip |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by Serowbot on 07/22/11 at 17:01:27 210C1008012201120E0519600 wrote:
1... What you describe could be the speedo bezel rattle... try pressing your thumb against the bottom edge of the mount and pushing slightly,... if the noise stops, there's an easy fix in the Tech section... .... could also be the the drive belt... it can make all kinds of tricky noises... pull in the clutch while you are hearing it, and rev the engine a couple of times... if the sound doesn't go up and down with the engine, it's probably the belt... again,.. a million fixes in the Tech section... These two things account for 80% of noises. the other one is the headlight bezel... 2... timing cover... next time you do front brake pads,... save the old plates... they work great in that slot... 'till then, a big fat washer in a vise grip does the job too... |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by Grand Strand on 07/22/11 at 18:19:38 3D386F6D6B64645C0 wrote:
:-? Huh? Sounds interesting but I dont understand! :-/ [/quote] I don't have that special tool to get the crankcase inspection cover off, the manual suggests a wide tip screwdriver, any home-made alternatives that anyone has found to work well? Got it. It helps when you read! Duh... [smiley=undecided.gif] |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/22/11 at 19:07:48 Keep the idle at 1,000 or a bit more, |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by Markusublime on 07/22/11 at 20:15:04 Are you hearing it on the left side of the bike?You maybe hearing the drive belt,I hear mine make the same kinda noise you described (high pitch whining that comes and goes).I tend to hear mine while accelerating and as the swing arm moves up and down with the road surface.it comes from the changes in tension on the belt as the swing arm goes through the arc shape that comes from the suspension geometry.with the milage on your bike I wouldn't be too worried but there is a tool for checking it in the toolkit on the bike. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by AlphaBarney on 07/23/11 at 09:04:05 Sero, you hit it right on the head with the drive-belt. I didn't even think about that, but yes when I pull the clutch the noise stops. I'll definitely be looking into those fixes. I should still think about tuning up the valves and looking at the cam anyway, but at least I know it's nothing major right now. Thanks everyone. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by arteacher on 07/23/11 at 15:41:26 " The advantage of the 10w40 is better head cooling. 20w50 is good for the crank bearings. " Why is that? I ask because I changed the oil for the first time since I bought the bike and used 20-50 Amsoil. The dealer had put in 10-40 bulk oil at its only other change when they put it in storage in the fall. After an hour running at 4500 rpm in very hot weather I noticed the valves were noisy just before I shut it down. The noise was normal when I started it up again. It may have been my imagination but it seemed to run cooler with the new oil. |
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Title: Re: Unwanted engine noises!! Oil issues?? Post by verslagen1 on 07/23/11 at 16:09:34 646F6F666A65647E7F0B0 wrote:
I did some oil trials last summer. Looking for a magic snake oil that would cure my summer oil burning problem. Didn't find one, not klotz, not amsoil, not mobil1, all 20w50. And the average head temp when up with the 20w50 vs the 5w40 for the same ambient temperatures. |
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