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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Political/economic question /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1310839105 Message started by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/11 at 10:58:25 |
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Title: Political/economic question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/11 at 10:58:25 Re; Minimum wage Another forum, someone suggested a higher minimum wage, I responded While we are jackin the minimum wage up, simply decreeing that employers have $$$ to pay out, lets stop piddling around.. Everyone knows the consumer drives the economy, so its important that consumers have enough $$$ to spend some , above & beyond just the essentials, food, shelter, transpo, etc... I say we hand them some MUNN EE ,, lets have a $50.00/hr minimum wage! Hey,, while we are just telling an employer he has to coff up,, lets just have him coff harder.. of course, thats gonna kill a few jobs, & close a few businesses,, but hey,, its caring & loving & it feels good, so it has to be a great idea,, & the current minimum wage does that, too..It stifles growth. NO,, the minimum wage is a bad idea, increases unemployment,, no minimum wage allows someone to work & have a check, when a $7.00 minimum wage means the employer cant hire, YES, while the labor pool is full of unemployed, you WILL see employers work people for too little,, but once an unbridled economy creates more jobs, then employers will be bidding against each other for labor. When everyone who wants a job has one, there isnt a big labor pool to draw from, so employers have to toss out more $$ to lure people in, Whats you thinking on minimum wage & why? I say I should be able to work for someone for whatever he can pay,, & thats a great way to get the unskilled into the job market,, who wants to pay someone 7+ buck an hour if they dont have the skills to do the job? Ive worked for less than minimum, just to get IN the door,, once I got in & showed them I could & would do the work,, I got raised up & put on the payroll, I say minimum wage laws stifle the economy. & while we are at it, I hate child labor laws, too,, A kid who wants to work otta be able to,, I woulda been in a machine shop, or mechnic, or welder, any number of places when I was 12,, if any one woulda let me. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by Serowbot on 07/16/11 at 11:28:55 I just don't think that a person working a full-time job in what is considered the lone superpower of the world,... should have an income that qualifies as poverty level... It just doesn't look good to the rest of the world... So, if the free market doesn't supply such a minimum,.. the government should mandate it... If a free market could pay people less, it would.. don't make it right... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/11 at 11:50:41 Thats the way its been presented ,, I know,, but,, what about people being able to pay someone 4 bux an hour, trying to launch a business,, but at 7, they just cant hire? Sure, thered be abuses, injustices, but in the long run, I think more employment, more o[p[ortunity & once the masses were employed,, then the employers would have to compete, by bribing people to come to work for them.. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by arteacher on 07/16/11 at 11:56:13 I agree... and disagree. I feel there should be a minimum wage in the service sector, as this sector is local and not competing in the world economy (the Chinese). The local companies could then pass there increased cost to the consumer. For example the waiter, buss boy and dish washer at a local restaurant get a minimum wage increase of 20%. That might increase the cost of your meal by 5%, but those min wage employees now have a couple of more bucks a week to buy stuff, and the economy is stimulated a bit. OTOH a minimum wage in the manufacturing sector is a bad idea. High labour costs are causing companies to leave the country and go to Mexico and China. The big problem is marketing. It has led us to believe that we are sub-human if we don't have (or want) a big house, two cars, a 50" flat screen,, a boat,- well you get the idea. This is why a factory worker who get $35 an hour + benefits to install lug nuts on a car thinks he or she needs a wage increase. Also both partners gotta work and the kids raise themselves, and that is not working out too well. If I had the power I would make it illegal for two people in a family to have a job until one person in every family has a decent job, and I would slap a 50 or 60% surtax on goods imported from China. I could go on for a while, but I think I've probably stirred up enough mud all ready. ;) |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/11 at 12:09:21 Art Teach said If I had the power I would make it illegal for two people in a family to have a job until one person in every family has a decent job, Man, If I had the magic wand Id hand it to ya & let you fix every family up with ONE decent job,, and I would slap a 50 or 60% surtax on goods imported from China. & IDK how that'd work out,, but I like the sound of it,, just as a knee jerk reaction.. Id sure like to see jobs here instead of "Over there",, we import way too much stuff,, from all over, not just China. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by Boule’tard on 07/16/11 at 12:40:39 Well this is more a "Tall Table" kind of subject, and you know that Justin, but as usual I partially agree with you. The minimum wage is a feel-good measure to "help the poor" that just causes jobs to dry up. Essentially it just strips the worker (as well as employer) of their right to exchange X amount of work for X amount of money. Your stuff about outlawing multiple per-family jobs and the protectionist tax on China is inconsistent with your idea of economic freedom though, and thank goodness you don't have the power to implement it. You simply don't have the right, thorough government or any other mechanism, to muck with people's livelihood in that manner, no matter how much "for their own good" you think it is. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/11 at 12:48:57 Art Teach said the thing about no one working 2 jobs till every family had at least one good one,& I agreed it would be cool, but would require a magic wand, ( I thot that would sufficiently imply my acknowledging the impossibility of it outside of magic), I remember when one good job supported a family & allowed for savings, & I dont mean lawyer & banker type jobs, My Granpa had a 13 stool snack bar, he worked it alone, added onto his house, upgraded his car got a truck, horses, leased land, & bought him a store out in the country, all on one income,, Id like to see anyone do that today,, & the Founding Fathers ubderstood the use of Tarrifs,, theres nothing wrong with protecting ones self from someone hanging it in your ear economically. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by arteacher on 07/16/11 at 13:17:23 Boule'tard: China is not playing fair- they have devalued their currency 40% to make their goods even cheaper. They cheat American companies who are manufacturing there by using the American tooling to manufacture identical products and selling them deeply discounted with another name on them. I know of an American loudspeaker manufacturer who contracted with a Chinese manufacture to make a certain number of speakers. They made them, and then used the tooling to make identical speakers, slapped a different name on them and exported them to the U.S. to sell for 1/2 the cost of the contracted ones. When the American manufacturer found out about it he went over and locked all his tooling up in a warehouse. It hurt him pretty bad, and he has little legal recourse. And this is not an isolated incident. Historically they think we are sub human, and it is therefor OK to cheat us any way they can. We send people over there to "expand the market for our exports" but they buy very little of our stuff compared to what we buy of theirs. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/16/11 at 14:33:03 I was sure hoping to get more input, I wonder where Jerry is ? Boule', If ya dont mind lettin it sit a while longer, Id appreciate it, If Jerry doesnt chime in tonite could you ship it off to the Tall Table? |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by Boule’tard on 07/16/11 at 15:57:26 Sure. Of course it is only 1/4 my decision, subject to review by Oldfeller, Verslagen1 and sluggo. Yes, we know China cheats. IMO that does not give us an excuse to curtail the rights of N.Americans (US or Canada) to try to correct it. As long as discussion is civil and nobody complains, I'm cool. I'd join in better, but I have a few items on auction closing this evening and need to answer all the last-minute questions! :D |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by verslagen1 on 07/16/11 at 16:20:30 535858515D525349483C0 wrote:
this is also to devalue their loans. exchange contracts are usually for the year. Quote:
This is a known issue, all long time contractors know this. He should have hired someone with experience to do his business over there. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by Oldfeller on 07/16/11 at 16:55:43 Hey, if we are all misbehaving, let's just call it a Fiscal Responsibility War and let it run as long as it doesn't get nasty. Then it will either peter out or we can lock it if it gets too noisy. ;) This "devalue your currency to sweep up all the manufacturing in the whole world" is working out right well for China, don't you think? Our "Hopey-Changie thang", it ain't a working out so good ... I am afraid that America can do the same devaluation thing as China until Italy Greece Spain and a half dozen others default on everything they owe, then our reward for playing that particular game is only chaos and pain as the world tanks around us. China gets to keep a fully grown and modernized industrial base (same one we gave away) when the rest of the world goes splat and belly up -- then lookie out to see jest whose well equipped armies start to go marching around sweeping up selected raw materials and natural resources. You do remember that the Biblical Armageddon was between the Powers in the North (Russia) and the Powers in the East (China)? We aren't even mentioned as we won't even be a player by then. ================ Let me give you a signal, a itty bitty tidbit from technoland since you know I like to watch that sector. China is now the worlds largest manufacturer and user of MIPS chips. Their military, power grid and key infrastructure runs ONLY on domestically produced MIPS chips that are considered 20 year outdated computing technology by Intel and Arm and AMD. China is the only one investing anything in that technology and they have recently bought the rights to it from the remainder of American MIPS Technology company. But guess which chips had the most work done on them to make them EMP resistant back in the 80's and 90's? Work funded by the US Military no less? Yup, that same old technology that China just bought up and is implementing 100% throughout their key systems is THAT technology. Pop us a few above the atmosphere EMP bombs on the East coast, one over the Great Lakes and one on the West Coast splitting the difference between Silicone Valley and Seattle and hey, America is back in the vacuum tube and rotary phone age (with darn few of them still left running). And who is to prove exactly who set them off way out in space anyway? Who are you going to counterstrike against, especially if everybody got the same treatment at the same exact time? China jest won't be as much affected as everybody else .... |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by bill67 on 07/16/11 at 19:09:37 We can thank Richard Nixon for getting us to be friends with China,Those Republicans sure can make all the right moves. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by Trippah on 07/16/11 at 19:27:43 Humerous discussion- on the one good job, that is what we had in the 50-60's until (in the spirit of unexpected consequences) declared equal pay for equal work - liberting women to join the workforce. Men used to get paid based on the job they did PLUS their needs (my oldest is going to college next year, I really need a raise). Women haven't hit parity yet but they have broken free of that financial prison of marriage which is one reason marriage is down to less than 50%..who needs it until chillen arrive. The unvarnished truth is...manufactureres will go wherever they can get something built well enough to sell for the lowest price (cost) thus allowing maximun profit. That manufacturering also brings environmental destruction (often, not always) means for the USA, unless we are willing to work for a comparible wage (which we can't because of cost of runnning a houshold) we will continue to loose out in this major economic sector. We can still "make hay" in management, engineering, and similar aspects but until the world hits wage and expense parity (which I do not think will ever happen, too many will loose a great source of income) the minimum wage allows us to be slaves that can almost house and feed ourselves. :D |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/11 at 06:27:14 Unintended consequences? It would look that way to th average person, but, if you knew who Gloria Steinham really was, then youd possibly begin to see the scientific manner in which America has been destroyed,, She, my friend, was CIA.. look her up. You guys DO remember me sayin Its all a big game,, right? Well,, we arent playing the game, its a game ON us, & its going splendidly,, |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by Midnightrider on 07/17/11 at 09:55:04 Justin some of your conspiracy theories I'm not too sure about, but I believe your "Dumbing Down Of America" is dead on it. If anyone doesnt believe it just turn on the TV and try to find something intelligent to watch. The Housewives Of New Jersey, give me a friggin break. How could anyone with half a brain sit through a bunch of stupid made up horse manure like that show, and there's plenty more just as bad or worse. Back to the subject most farm and restaraunt owners get around the minimum wage law. Everyone knows there's migrant farm workers that will work for whatever they can get. Its actually legal for a restaraunt owner to pay waitresses and bartenders below minimum wage because they are expected to be tipped. Look at all the politicians with illegal maids and groundskeepers. Ya think they get minimum wage? The minimum wage law only works with corporations afraid of being sued. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/11 at 16:08:38 Gloria Steinem - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Gloria Steinem at a news conference, Women's Action Alliance, January 12, 1972 ... she served as director of the secretly CIA-funded Independent Research ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gloria_Steinem - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight Gloria Steinem: How the CIA Used Feminism to Destabilize Society Since writing these words last week, I have discovered that before she became a feminist leader, Gloria Steinem worked for the CIA spying on Marxist ... www.jesus-is-savior.com/ Evils%20in%20America/ Feminism/ gloria_steinem-feminism.htm - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight What Gloria Steinem, Henry Kissinger Have in Common: CIA Pay ... Feb 22, 2008 ... The front organization was one of the earliest and most trusted weapons in the psychological Cold War between the U.S. and the Soviet Union. www.bloomberg.com/ apps/ news?pid=newsarchive &sid=a1M9EAly2hog &refer=home - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight savethemales.ca - How Gloria Steinem's CIA Role Was Censored Jun 17, 2010 ... (Like Barack Obama, Feminist Gloria Steinem is a CIA asset tasked with subverting the United States in the interests of Illuminati banker ... www.henrymakow.com/inside_the_cia_with_gloria_ste.html - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight Gloria Steinem - How The CIA Used Feminism To Destabilize Society Since writing these words last week, I have discovered that before she became a feminist leader, Gloria Steinem worked for the CIA spying on Marxist ... www.rense.com/general21/hw.htm - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight portland imc - 2005.02.06 - Feminist Gloria Steinem of the CIA ... Feb 6, 2005 ... Frank jokes about the role of fellow delegate Gloria Steinem, whom he describes as running around at nightclubs set up by the CIA in ... portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/02/310075.shtml - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight Gloria Steinem - How The CIA Used Feminism To Destabilize Society ... Mar 19, 2002 ... March 19, 2002. "In the 1960´s, the elite media invented second-wave feminism as part of the elite agenda to dismantle civilization and ... www.educate-yourself.org/cn/makowfeminismsteinemandcia19mar02.shtml - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight Dailymotion - Gloria Steinem: How CIA Used Feminism to Destabilize ... Jun 19, 2009 ... http://tcrnews2.com/Steinem_CIA.html Feminism exposed part the New World Order Agenda. www.dailymotion.com/ video/ x9mikt_gloria-steinem-how-cia-used-feminis_webcam - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight BLACK FEMINISM, THE CIA AND GLORIA STEINEM. (Fwd: For you that ... FACT: One of Gloria Steinem's first missions for the CIA was to manipulate the student movement (most people are STILL unaware that the National Student ... rah.posterous.com/black-feminism-the-cia-and-gloria-steinem-fwd - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight YouTube - Gloria Steinem Exposed: Feminist Spy for The CIA![ch8207] Aug 20, 2010 ... Not many people know that Feminist media darling, Gloria Steinem, was in fact working for the CIA - or that Ms. Magazine was a CIA funded ... www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ2qxGAKIu4 - View by Ixquick Proxy - Highlight Its a game,, Ask yourself this question,, How is it that a woman, ( remember that glass ceiling thing here) who had nothing to say that was in accordance with society as it was at the time, was given microphones & a podium & interviews in magazines & newspapers, to tell the women of America to throw off their shackles.. WHO decided what she was saying was what the masses needed to hear & provided the chanels to make it happen? Is there anything you wish you could tell all of America? Is there anyone out there who would make it happen for YOU?? Think about it, dont just dismiss that,, thats a very important & revealing question.. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by tcreeley on 07/17/11 at 19:24:20 If you are a neocon capitalist with a global trade agenda then you want open markets and cheap labor. It doesn't matter where the labor is, it is always cheaper to move the factory. That's what happened to the US. Last I heard china paid .35 per hour. Maybe they are up to .50 per hour now. They like free prison labor too. Our hardworking minimum wage guy who is at the poverty level can't compete with .50 an hour. I guess the answer is to lower the minimum wage to .50 an hour! (Work a 1/2 hour to get enough to buy a gum ball out of the machine.) China has the factories now (India too). We sent the machinery over. Until we regain an industrial base, we are headed for 3rd world status. But we never will get back what we gave away. Bankers, owners, investors are doing ok. Money knows no boundaries. In time the Asians will take that over too as our last sources of revenue dry up. You have to be smart to connect the dots. You have to understand. Have you noticed the attacks on education? Dismantle the schools and you have an uneducated workforce. They won't ask for high wages. They will work for nothing. The dumbing down of America has a purpose. TV, booze, drugs, die young (no SS payments), and too uneducated to know better. A work force that will work for peanuts + long hours- just to have a job. (This is the reason why we have such a legal high immigration rate. -people willing to work for nothing.) Union busting - same reason. It is awful hard to fight them. They have us working people fighting our selves. We are being sold a ton of lies. Bite the bullet time. Promote US made (no sales in the US unless it is 51% American made.) Import tariffs. The bank boys will fight this. Business will fight this, but in time as factories produce here, the wages will pump money into the economy and things will pick up. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/17/11 at 21:00:41 Want more on the Dumbing Don of America? There is supposed to be a FREE online book, by Charlotte Izerbyt ( pronounced Izzer Bee,,) She was 2nd in command of the dept Of education or something like that, back in the 60s or 70s,, I cant remember now,, but she had access to info you & I didnt,, The failure of american education,, let me ask you a question.. You HAD an education system that wa working, You TWEAKED it to "make it better",, the end result was a disappointment, Now, You Ask for more $$$ to Tweak some more Or You go back to how it was before you started tweaking. They NEVER went back to what it was before they started trying 'To make it better" & its steadily gotten worse, Accident? If you believe that, youre lacking in your thinking skills. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by tcreeley on 07/18/11 at 08:29:00 Neil Bush had a company whose business it was to "save" failing schools when No Child Left Behind was signed into law that labelled failing schools! -making some money on the side here! |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by buttgoat1 on 07/18/11 at 09:21:10 I think the big picture is what kind of jobs come along with minimum wage. Low productive menial jobs. These are not the kind of jobs to support a family on, these are what teenagers are supposed to learn how to show up, perform, get experience, and learn how to better themselves, not enable them to stay at a low level. I know there are very educated and productive people working low wage jobs just to survive short term, but that does not justify raising it. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by LostArtist on 07/18/11 at 10:36:55 This: 37282E2934330232023A28246F5D0 wrote:
is the fatal flaw in your argument. and unbridled economy will not happen with all the lobbies and what not with corruption in just your local government let alone Washington DC. Also, when everyone who wants a job has one??? some people don't want jobs, but they work anyway, some of them are darn good at what they do too and make a lot more than the people who want that job do. work is not about wanting, it's about being paid. employers will always fight to get the cheapest labor possible. also, I don't think an unbridled economy would create more jobs or raise income levels any even if was possible. there would be an increase in disabilities from dangerous jobs no longer regulated by the govt. there would be a lot of people moving around all the time cause one job in one place would pay more than the same job in another place (this already happens now anyway so immigration wouldn't just be a national border control thing anymore) there would be a period of time short or long while the economy balances out, some jobs would start paying drastically less reducing that area's local economy. anyway there's a lot of negatives to eliminating the minimum wage, and it's rough to argue to raise it, cause of all the other arguments here as well. the idea the minimum wage is an acceptable wage for middle class or even lower class americans is just stupid though, working 40 hours a week on minimum wage won't help you live, but if minimum wage was above wellfare . . . there's no argument that wages and salaries for the lower 98% of american's need to increase but giving the top 2% a tax break isn't going to work, and there's 30 years of evidence to support that. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by LostArtist on 07/18/11 at 10:40:03 6A7D6E7B7D7A7D6E711C0 wrote:
and yet, with the globalization that's been happening for the last 20 years, this is what we get, educated productive people working low wage jobs, under-employed. it wasn't the working class that asked for their jobs to be shipped over seas. . . |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by bill67 on 07/18/11 at 11:06:55 If you have no minimum wage there will be more people on welfare,I think there are to many already. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by buttgoat1 on 07/18/11 at 12:26:08 50736F685D6E68756F681C0 wrote:
and yet, with the globalization that's been happening for the last 20 years, this is what we get, educated productive people working low wage jobs, under-employed. it wasn't the working class that asked for their jobs to be shipped over seas. . . [/quote] No, the working class didn't ask for it, but they helped. there is a continual movement within companies to cut costs and stay competitive, that is nature of business. Most businesses would prefer to stay here in the US, but everyday gubmint regulations get more onerous, EPA regs will drive up electricity costs, Unions demand more. Even GE and GM, both recipients of bailout and stimulous money, are building plants overseas, and the Won parades them around as a success???? Heck, even here we have the most pro union supportes bashing any person who exercises their free choice to buy a Harley, as they gloat about their reasonablly priced Savage. They can't see the relation between a higher priced union made in the US model, but yet still hypocritically spout such short sighted nonsense. Consumers make choices every day with their wallet, and businesses have to accept that challenge to survive. Workers need to be a partner in it instead of being a hindrance. Boeing just got slammed by the labor relations board for expanding in a non-union plant, not cutting union jobs, just expanding elsewhere. The part of the story you don't hear very looudly is that the SC non union plant workers voted to decertify their union representation because the union put its own welfare ahead of the workers they supposedly represented. I bet Boeing will expand overseas next time, maybe Canada. Canada btw is recovering better than US because othe the current hostile US business administration. Apparently actually developing oil resources employs people and generates revenue. Too bad the dipsticks in DC are doing their darndest to cut our energy throats here at home. BTW, lower fuel costs would leave more money to pay workers. I suggest you call your representatives, remember that the next time you vote. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by LostArtist on 07/18/11 at 12:45:23 workers as a partner?? isn't that what unions are trying to do, like in an idealized world of course not the corrupt reality we actually live in. CEO's salaries have grown 500% or something crazy while middle class salaries have stagnated. . . so workers want to be a partner but aren't going to do everything for nothing in return. . . I just don't see many CEO's actually respecting their work force financially, just trying to minimize the cost of their workforce. what I'll remember the next time I vote is that we've been cutting income taxes for the top earners for 30 years and nothing is growing in the middle class . . . hard to keep buying that BS, yet they keep trying to sell it |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by arteacher on 07/18/11 at 12:56:11 Smart companies have embraced profit sharing for all employees. Such companies enjoy a higher level of productivity. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by buttgoat1 on 07/18/11 at 13:09:51 40637F784D7E78657F780C0 wrote:
and sweetheart deals for crony companies like GM, GE, bogus "green" companies help you how? Unions spending millions of dollars to buy gubmint officials does what for you? Right now, if you had a great idea for a new product, you would have an infentisimal chance to actually get it to market because of onerous enviromental, workplace, insurance, energy, etc regulations and restrictions. How does that help you? Excessive requirements just further entrench the established businesses, they will do what they have to do to survive. Your desirte for fairness only make the strong stronger and weak weaker. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by LostArtist on 07/18/11 at 13:23:30 71667560666166756A070 wrote:
and sweetheart deals for crony companies like GM, GE, bogus "green" companies help you how? Unions spending millions of dollars to buy gubmint officials does what for you? Right now, if you had a great idea for a new product, you would have an infentisimal chance to actually get it to market because of onerous enviromental, workplace, insurance, energy, etc regulations and restrictions. How does that help you? Excessive requirements just further entrench the established businesses, they will do what they have to do to survive. Your desirte for fairness only make the strong stronger and weak weaker. [/quote] "onerous enviromental, workplace, insurance, energy, etc regulations and restrictions. How does that help you?" what about onerous patent laws, and sweetheart deals with good old boys? that helps how?? even if you got a new product to market the established businesses already have 1000's of tricks to get you to go out of business, this is how it's been for centuries. this has nothing to to with paying employees more or growing the middle class corporations also spend billions on lobbying congress and politicians the focus needs to be on growing the middle class, and again, giving tax cuts to the higher earners doesn't seem to be working |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by buttgoat1 on 07/18/11 at 14:59:20 one thing I know, is the more government interference you have the more things get screwed up. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/18/11 at 15:15:04 524556434542455649240 wrote:
Well,, All Ive seen is a constant increase in size & scope of the goobs,, & a steady downturn in freedom & standard of living,, The government which governs least, governs best.. |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by LostArtist on 07/18/11 at 16:37:11 26393F3825221323132B39357E4C0 wrote:
Well,, All Ive seen is a constant increase in size & scope of the goobs,, & a steady downturn in freedom & standard of living,, The government which governs least, governs best.. [/quote] only if you are powerful, if you are weak you might appreciate a little more government |
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Title: Re: Political/economic question Post by mmosel on 07/21/11 at 18:08:27 Australia has a very high minimum wage. From what I gather, they have a pretty decent economy right now. Certainly more balanced than what we have. Their trade balance with China is fairly evenly matched, last time I checked. Also, it's illegal NOT to vote there. ( I'm not saying it should be illegal here, just and interesting tidbit of info ) ----------- Having said that, let me say that the minimum wage here has not gone up much compared to the cost of food and fuel, which is a reflection of the devaluation of our fiat dollars. The current Fed Reserve dollar has lost something like 98% of it's original purchasing power since it was first introduced. That's the real crime. The devaluation of currency by printing more and more and more debt based 'notes' that just waters down the whole economy until an hours wage will barely buy a gallon of gas or milk. We are at a dangerous point in the life-cycle of a fiat currency. The debt grows exponentially and cannot ever be paid off. CAN NEVER be paid off. So more debt is the only temporary solution. How long can that continue? What is the long-term solution? Complete default on all debt? The US is bankrupt and has been. This is why there are all these QEs and other 'official' terms for printing more debt notes. Oh and while we're talking about money, let's not talk about the unfairness of banks being able to lend money they don't even have, and then you have to work your ass off to pay it back. Ok.. rant off. |
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