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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Savage Idles only /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1310573434 Message started by Dave_Bennett on 07/13/11 at 09:10:34 |
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Title: Savage Idles only Post by Dave_Bennett on 07/13/11 at 09:10:34 I am working on a 2000 Savage and have the most frustrating problem. The bike will idle, but the moment you touch the throttle, the engine chokes and dies. I have rebuilt the carburetor completely, adjusted the float according to the clymer manual specs, set the idle air screw adjustment to 1 1/2 turns, but nothing has helped. I have also set the valve clearance to .004 on both the intake and exhaust valves. I owned my own savage a few years ago and I remember all the help I received from you folks here, so I thought I would pick your brains in attempt to fix this for my customer. Does anyone have any suggestions on what else may be causing this to happen? Dave in Ivor VA |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by Boule’tard on 07/13/11 at 09:20:17 Next time it does that, take a whiff of the exhaust and/or plug reading and determine if it is a lean condition or a rich one. If lean, look for leaks in the intake boot or vac. line for the petcock, or a clogged main jet (yeah I know you probably just did that). If it's rich, perhaps the main jet is loose or needle is set wrong in the needle jet. Also check that the choke isn't sticking. Edit: oh yeah, check all that junk with the vacuum diaphragm and spring in the top of the carb too. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by Serowbot on 07/13/11 at 10:42:07 How to check your petcock,... (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1) |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by Dave_Bennett on 07/13/11 at 11:38:04 Those are great suggestions. I will check them also, but I think I might have found a BIG clue. I did a cylinter leak down test. I have 120 pounds of compression at 80% leakdown. I am thinking the valves and/or seats need to be, lapped, pulled, replaced, (insert verb here). Anyone concur? Also, can the cylinder be pulled with the engine still on the bike? |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by verslagen1 on 07/13/11 at 11:44:04 That might be the case, but it wouldn't cause it to bog with a little throttle, just not run as well as can be expected. check the main jet, you may have left the washer out from under the jet. this will let the slide suck the whole assembly up and you get a lot more gas then needed. from experience... pull the engine, you'll have a lot less trouble than trying to work around it in the frame. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by Serowbot on 07/13/11 at 11:51:25 The fuel problem that you have, may have caused a gas wash in the cylinder... that can give you a low compression reading... Happened in my car once,... and compression dropped to nearly nothing... If you want,... Try a teaspoon of oil in the spark plug hole, and a few cranks to distribute the oil around the cylinder,... then test again... |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by CalisOsin on 07/13/11 at 12:02:38 7F697E637B6E63780C0 wrote:
I don't want to hijack this thread, but can you explain that a little more? I have never heard of that before. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by papi_ocho on 07/13/11 at 12:36:54 0B2924213B073B2126480 wrote:
I don't want to hijack this thread, but can you explain that a little more? I have never heard of that before.[/quote] oil in the plug should be common practice when bringing a long standing bike back into service. esentially raw fuel dumps into the cylinder and washes away any lubrication- piston, walls, rings. that slight wash can change the champers compresion as well as its ability to hold pressure during a leak down test. back to original topic> had the same problem with my carb after putting the bike back into service after a LONG STORY. i went into the carb without cleaning jets and that was my mistake. i went BACK into the carb again cleaned out the Main, then the pilot. there was absolutly no light visible thru the jet. Dont clean it with a tooth pic. and tada clean jet, decent runniing bike. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by Serowbot on 07/13/11 at 12:42:48 If you are running real stumbly, way too rich, ...or if you have to crank for a long time without firing,.... gas, instead of being consumed, washes down the cylinder walls and removes the oil oil film that makes a compression seal between the rings and the cylinder... EDIT... Papi beat me to the explanation... and he did a better job of it... ;D ;D ;D... Nice one, Papi.. ;)... |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by CalisOsin on 07/13/11 at 13:07:13 Gracias Papi, and thanks Serow! |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by Dave_Bennett on 07/25/11 at 09:10:26 Ok, I am back seeking more advice. I have tried everything I can think of, but I still can not get the bike to do more than idle. Then I touch the throttle, it dies and if I try it often enough, gas flows out the carb vent tubes. We have checked the timing and that is set right, the valves are properly gapped, the carb has been gone through (numerous times) and all the parts are there. Couple of questions on the carb. The body of the carb has the 24c4 part number on it. According to the manual, the needle for that model is a fixed position needle and the one that was in it and that came with the rebuild kit is adjustable. Will this needle work? According to the manual, the main jet on the 24C4 is supposed to be 145. Originally, when the carb came in to the shop, it did not have a main jet in it, but someone had put two pilot jets in it. The rebuild kit came with a 130 jet, and that is what we put in. The pilot jet next to the main jet is supposed to be a 52.5, but the one in there is 47.5. The Needle jet on the top left front under the diaphram should be an X-7m. The one installed only has 230 stamped on it. The pilot air jet is listed as "NA" in the manual, but there is a jet there that corresponds to the pilot air jet shown in the parts schematic over at suzukipartshouse.com for a carburetor on a 2001 LS650, the one in the schematic is listad as a 45 and there is a 45 in the carb. Can anyone see any parts that are not the right ones for this model carb? I assume that X-7m is a part number. Anyone know if that 230 jet is the same as the X-7m? I am running out of ideas, and I really do not want to have to tell the customer that he has a hodge podge of carb parts that someone else put together and slapped on his bike, and the only option is to find an entire carb that is made for the bike; unless of course that is exactly what is needed. He bought the bike used, and it did not run when he got it. I have at least gotten it to start, but I would really like for it to be right when it leaves the shop. Any help is REALLY appreciated. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by Serowbot on 07/25/11 at 09:46:54 It sounds like a fuel problem,... so I'd keep my focus there... Is there any way you can post us a picture of the carb?... ... or,... compare what you are working on, to these pics... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1191899985 |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by serenity3743 on 07/25/11 at 10:36:25 Here's something to consider: Does the exhaust have a clog? A stopped- exhaust would probably let the bike idle, but not rev. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by Boofer on 07/25/11 at 17:51:08 Crap, Serenity. I was going to type that, but you beat me to it. How about this smarty pants; the stator may be going bad and will only run at idle like the 1980 and older CX 500s do some times. Also a wire may be holding on by insulation only but comes off when the engine is torqued slightly...or Gremlins? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/11 at 18:06:07 here are the links to the stock carb thread... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1098869040 and one more to the dyno jet conversion chart... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1104263751 A 130 main jet is way to small, that's problem number 1. I say go with a 150 if you got one. the 52 pilot should be fine. Can't tell you what the 230 is, only dyno jet parts have different numbers on them and some one may have mixed the parts up. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by dasch on 07/26/11 at 06:01:58 130 and 47.5 was what I had in my carb, including the adjustable needle. Love the circlip adjustment, but replaced jets with 150 and 50 now. Can't tell you if that works in your carb, It runs great in mine. And didn't someone like a week ago also mentioned a jet with 230 stamped on it. He called it Air jet or to that effect?? Regardless, I'm thinking the fuel should never gush through carb vents, unless the float sticks or float valve doesn't shut. It might be the float problem, theoretically. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by spacepirates on 07/26/11 at 07:42:19 If you can, I'd clean all the stock carb parts very well (boil them in lemon juice maybe?) and try those before the rebuilt kit. If they aren't bent/broken, you should be able to clean them. carbs can be very finicky sometimes. to check the floats, you can use your imagination to hook up a clear hose to the carb drain (I used a grease fitting with the ball and spring taken out of it on another carb). loop that up and zip-tie it to the carb such that the open end of the hose is above the carb. that'll let you see where the fuel level is (and how the float is operating) while the bike is running. I do wonder what would cause the gas to flow out of the vents. That is kind of worrisome. might be caused by a float that no longer likes to float, or a float valve that no longer likes to seal. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by dasch on 07/26/11 at 11:59:09 So hypothetically we are saying, float stays up stuck as the fuel level in the bowl goes down quick. Yuo can't rev, since there's but fumes in the bowl. Eventually, float drops down and stays stuck down, bowl overfills and pi$$es out on vent tubes. Level gets high enough, float goes back up and seals shut... That is the theory behind it... Stretched, but it might worth it. |
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Title: Re: Savage Idles only Post by zx6chris on 07/26/11 at 13:50:10 mine was doing the same think and it turned out to be a blocked jet where the main pin goes through and the diafram was mucky too kleaned it and she fired and reved up fine well after a quick cough and a pop |
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