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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Carb screws /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1310316827 Message started by Scott2.0 on 07/10/11 at 09:53:46 |
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Title: Carb screws Post by Scott2.0 on 07/10/11 at 09:53:46 I finally got the carb off for the first time and rejetted and now I've flipped the thing over trying to take out the four screws to access the white spacer. These screws will not budge and I'm afraid I'm going to strip them. Any advice? Thanks in advance! |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by jdeluca on 07/10/11 at 10:00:41 Soak with some WD-40 or PB Blaster and try some channel locks or vise grips on the sides of them. There's also a method using a flat punch on them, but I had good luck with blaster and channel locks. After you get them out, bring them to Home Depot or Lowe's or Ace Hardware and repalce them with some stainless instead of that crappy brass. Four new screws would cost like $4 for stainless...I wanna say they were M4, but any of those stores should have a thread checker. Probably wouldn't hurt to replace the ones on the transient enrichment valve cover and the ones on the float bowl... |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Scott2.0 on 07/10/11 at 10:07:19 Thanks for the advice. I've tried WD-40 with no luck although I'm not too surprised. I'm off to get some PB Blaster and will pray that the channel locks work. I've already managed to strip one pretty badly (so pissed at myself). Thanks again. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/10/11 at 10:45:54 They arent #2 Phillips, either.. some kinda JIS sumthin er other.. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/11 at 11:14:01 5C6C607B7B3D213F0F0 wrote:
very common, the thread lock used is akin to the red stuff. very tough to get off. there's a ss carb screw set kit made up by motobuda? in the marketplace. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by MotoBuddha on 07/10/11 at 11:24:39 I used pliers, from the side, to get the screws out. Squeeze hard enough to leave dents in the screw heads, then turn. And, yeah, I have sets of stainless steel socket heads screws to replace the stock ones. Bargain price. (Shameless self promoting) http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1307376830/0#4 |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Gyrobob on 07/10/11 at 11:46:12 6858544F4F09150B3B0 wrote:
If you've already munged up the screw heads, this technique might not be so important, aside from the fact it will get the screws out. I have an obsession (one of my many personality defects) about messing up screw heads, rounding of nut faces, putting wrench scratches on nearby surfaces, kinking things etc., so I was pleased to have been taught this trick decades ago by a mechanic that used to work on space equipment way back when. It's big advantage to me is that it will get the screw out without destroying the screw head. I'll admit, though, sometimes this doesn't work, and you may have to resort to using huge pliers or vice-grips to crimp the head enough to put enough torque on it to get it out. Bye bye screw head,,....go to the parts store to buy replacement parts Anyway,.. put the carb in a vise thusly: http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh253/Gyrobob_theOriginal/Motorcycle/RYCA%20CS-1%20LS650%20S40%20Savage/LS650carb9Jun78Medium.jpg Get a flat faced punch. A thick nail with the point filed flat will do nicely. Put the tip of the punch on the side of the screw head as shown in the pic. Tap the punch a few times. Then move it 90 degrees or so,.. tap some more. Keep moving the punch around as you tap and soon you will see a tiny bit of movement as the screw head moves from side to side. At this point, the thing is loose enough to unscrew. I doubt WD-40 will do much to loosen up red lock-tight. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/11 at 11:53:58 Please note the soft jaw protectors in the above photo. and PB blasters has been known to work with the suzuki thread locker. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by MotoBuddha on 07/10/11 at 12:13:14 485B4C4D525F595B500F3E0 wrote:
Also heat. A palm sized butane torch aimed at the screw head. The bolt gets hot and softens the thread locker. But maybe the reason I didn't have problems with any of my carb screws was that I had soaked the whole thing in this overnight: http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/8cc30734.jpg |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by dasch on 07/10/11 at 12:29:12 My vote goes to vice grips and replace with allen heads. M4 it is. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by MotoBuddha on 07/10/11 at 13:42:20 M4 on the transient enrichment valve cover, but not the other screws. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/10/11 at 13:58:09 I have a little butane powered soldering iron I got at Lowes for less tha 15 Bux,, Take the soldering tip off & use it as an open flame, thats how I solder with it,, A boogered up screw can be repaired with a pin punch & a careflully applied light hammer, the metal can be driven back where it came from,, &, the screw loosens at the same time, WD40 isnt near the penetrating oil that Kroil or just plain Wintergreen OIl is.. I dont even keep WD40 now, since the propellant wont mke an engine fire off,, that stuffs about worthless, IMO. Unless you need Water Displacing spray,, then, its the berries.. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Scott2.0 on 07/10/11 at 14:21:07 Guys thanks for all the advice. PB Blaster and a pair of vice grips did the trick. I was ready to shoot myself for a minute. Thanks for coming through! While an enormous pain in the ass for someone mechanically uninclined (word?) like myself, rejetting and doing the white spacer mod has turned sleepy Sally into a bike that's now almost deserving of being called a Savage. Throttle response is much improved, it feels peppier and even during hard 1-2 shifts there's no longer any backfiring. For those interested, I used a 55 pilot (without bleed holes), 152.5 main, and 2 #4 washers in place of the white spacer. I have a HD muff and de-snorkeled using a stock filter/box setup. I have a K&N on order. Thanks again! |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Routy on 07/10/11 at 16:11:15 I find it strange out of all these posts, not one word mentioned about using a little impact driver,.....when in reality it would have done the trick right from the get-go ! If you don't have one, get one. I know, it hard to use an impact driver w/o removing the carb from the engine. But once its off, an impact driver is the dog's bark !....or is it the cat's meow ? :o |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/11 at 16:24:18 37382239252330323A3423510 wrote:
be sure to support the tab the screw is on or you'll break it off with the impact driver. ;D maybe why no one's mentioned it. 8-) |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Edgar on 07/10/11 at 16:30:37 Do you guys apply any loctite when reassembling? |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Gyrobob on 07/10/11 at 17:39:47 697A6D6C737E787A712E1F0 wrote:
be sure to support the tab the screw is on or you'll break it off with the impact driver. ;D maybe why no one's mentioned it. 8-)[/quote] Very true. Impact drivers can be brutal. Besides, with soft-headed screws like these that are, in effect, welded to the carb body, using an impact driver will make quick work of the screw head -- it'll look like you took a drill bit to it. Been there, done that more than once :( Then, your last resort is to dremel (or chisel) a slot in the head and use a big fat flat screwdriver with vise grips on the handle and a 310lb buddy to push down on the screwdriver while you put the torque on it with the vice grips. :P |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Gyrobob on 07/10/11 at 17:45:34 1A3B383E2D5F0 wrote:
Call me crazy, but I use RTV. The real benefit to loctite is to seal the threads so they don't come loose from increased clearances due to intergranular corrosion caused by the different metallurgy of the nut and bolt. It is not primarily used as glue. RTV seals the threads too, and sort of glues the threads, but it never bonds so hard that you can't take it apart later. It has pretty good heat resistance (especially the high temp type) and it keeps anything it is on from rusting. RTV is WWWWAAAAYYYYYYY cheaper, too. Kinda messy, though. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/11 at 18:07:12 5273707665170 wrote:
no |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/11 at 18:08:33 6E505B464B464B290 wrote:
be sure to support the tab the screw is on or you'll break it off with the impact driver. ;D maybe why no one's mentioned it. 8-)[/quote] Very true. Impact drivers can be brutal. Besides, with soft-headed screws like these that are, in effect, welded to the carb body, using an impact driver will make quick work of the screw head -- it'll look like you took a drill bit to it. Been there, done that more than once :( Then, your last resort is to dremel (or chisel) a slot in the head and use a big fat flat screwdriver with vise grips on the handle and a 310lb buddy to push down on the screwdriver while you put the torque on it with the vice grips. :P[/quote] If you got vice grips... and the head is still on the screw... whadayaneed a screwdriver for? Just use the vice grips on the head. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Gyrobob on 07/10/11 at 20:30:32 Quote:
One normal progression for these situations is: 1. Try real hard to get the phillips head screw out with a screwdriver. 2. Utter a few expletives about the stupid f***ing screw that now has its slots rounded out. 3. The set of vise grips you have weighs about 5 pounds and is more suited to working on bridges, but one works with what one has, eh? 4. You clamp the vice grips on the 1/4" diameter screw head, partially crushing it, but that's okay because you want to get a good grip on it. 5. You start to move the vise grips counterclockwise (right? :-/). It just starts to move, and SPLING!!,.. it lets go of the screw, leaving the screwhead looking quite mangled and shaped somewhat like an upside down cone. 6. You reapply the vise grips, further deforming the head but you are not dismayed because you will toss this screw once you get it out. 7. SPLING!!! the vise grips pop off all by themselves. 8. The screwhead has lost about 2/3 of its mass. There is very little left to grab. 9. Find the dremel tool, cut a slot in what is left in the head, and go find Bubba. 10. Apply the vise grips to a big fat screwdriver while Bubba holds the screwdriver down in the slot. Torque out the screw. 11. Give Bubba a beer. OR Skip steps 1 thru 11,... Use a little heat and a flat faced punch, and jiggle the screw loose so's you can back it out normally with a screwdriver. No expletives, no beer for Bubba. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by jdeluca on 07/10/11 at 20:41:43 hahaha...Thanks Gyro! |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by verslagen1 on 07/10/11 at 21:36:46 I suppose since the newb can't handle a pair of vice grips, one would wonder if they can handle a screwdriver or a dremel or a torch. they should stick to sucking down beer and take the bike to the stealership. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Gyrobob on 07/11/11 at 05:09:45 746770716E6365676C33020 wrote:
Sound advice, based on two time-honored axioms: 1. One must know one's limitations. 2. One must maintain an awareness of the big picture. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Scott2.0 on 07/11/11 at 05:32:58 716275746B6660626936070 wrote:
I actually said I WAS able to get them off with vice grips after spraying the crap out of them with PB Blaster. I tried before without it and couldn't get them, hence the post. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Routy on 07/11/11 at 06:46:48 The sad reality is that an experienced person doesen't have a problem getting the screws out. The very simple trick is to not let the heads of the screws get messed up in the first place ! The second you've let a screwdriver slip on a screw, you have not only made a mistake, but you have also shown gross inexperience. And I get tired of hearing about the "soft headed screws" These screws are no softer than any other mild steel grade 3 screw. But it does make for a good excuse for the inexperienced. I wrote a post on how to get carb screws out w/o damaging the screw heads,......lotta good that did. But in short, the simple trick is,....apply enough pressure to the driver that it has no chance of slipping ! If you find there is no way of doing that, you just made your first mistake. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/11/11 at 08:09:46 & theyre not #2 phillips,, the right tool helps, Im sure, I was able to get them with a #2,, but, Ive got years of experience handling screws that arent being nice. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by BillF6531 on 07/11/11 at 08:38:10 If there is any resistance when removing the the screw, and any suggestion that further attempt will destroy the head - it's not Phillips, it's JIS - I move on to Plan B. That involves using a Phillips bit of the correct size mounted in my electric drill - in reverse mode. Downward pressure and the sudden impact quickly removes the screw. On the odd occasion I've damaged the head doing this. Plan C is the same, but with the drill in forward mode. This never fails, since the shock breaks the head off of the screw, and the remaining stud can be removed with your fingers. Works for me. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/11/11 at 08:41:11 A pin punch can be used to put the metal back where it goes if a screwdriver slips some,, unless the metal gets sheered off. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Gyrobob on 07/12/11 at 10:16:47 4D5254534E4978487840525E15270 wrote:
Yes, you can "sculpt" the metal around the slots back into place, but it only looks nice, it is not back to original strength. I have done this many times to hide my hamfistedness with the screwdriver. The metal you pushed back into place, though, is just a trifle stronger than pudding. |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Digger on 08/13/11 at 20:49:34 In addition to the many good techniques that have already been shared here: My usual technique with the screws on Japanese carbs is to use care when unscrewing them for the first time, as they're generally stuck on there pretty good and it is easy to foul the heads. I use a JIS screwdriver on them: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/Garage/JISScrewdrivesandBitsE.jpg If the screws are particularly obstinate, I use some Grip Doctor I've had banging around the garage for years: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/Garage/GripDoctorE.jpg I've heard that valve lapping compound, or even Ajax or Comet abrasive cleaners work well, too. If I did not damage the OEM carb screws on removal, I reuse them. When I put the screws back in, I always treat the threads with some Anti-Seize (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/lubricants/specialty_lubricants/Permatex_Anti-Seize_Lubricant_a.htm). I make sure some of the Anti-Seize gets smeared underneath the screw head....something I never do for any other application. I never have any problems after that. JM2CW! |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by Digger on 08/13/11 at 20:52:49 As long as we're talking about stubborn little screws, does anyone have any experience with one of these?: Screw Pliers (http://www.kk.org/cooltools/archives/005368.php) Sure looks like the ticket....IF it works as advertised! |
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Title: Re: Carb screws Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/13/11 at 21:12:00 Id try it, but I wouldnt be shocked if it didnt work as well as I Wished it would. Heey Now!! Next ime Im struggling with a crummy screw, I may just JB weld a screwdriver tip in it,, then come rip it out tomorrow,, |
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