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Message started by adberns on 06/23/11 at 10:47:57

Title: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by adberns on 06/23/11 at 10:47:57

Hello, all -

my friend recently acquired a 1998 Savage with 10k miles in need of some work. It sat in a barn for several years. The only riding we've done is about 12 miles from the site of purchase to my garage. When cold, it was making a noise that sounds to me like cam chain - seems to be in the bottom half of the engine, not high up like valves would be (I assume). After we got it home and it was fully warmed up, the noise was gone, and you could hear the cam chain spinning without the rattle.

Is what I heard likely the cam chain? Should I tear into it and check it's state?

It also leaks oil, but we'll talk about that in a different post, I'm sure :)

Thanks!

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by verslagen1 on 06/23/11 at 11:20:26

hard to say what it was

but I'd recomend you take the clutch off and look at it.
If done carefully, the gasket can be saved.
take a measurement and you can estimate 1000 miles per mm til you need to look at it again. 19mm is the recomended repair point.

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by adberns on 06/23/11 at 11:25:32

Hi, Verslagen -

thanks! As you recall, I've already checked with you on tensioner availability because I was sure that's what it was. Then I thought that maybe with the noise going away when hot, it wouldn't be, so I thought I'd save myself the cost of a gasket. But, yeah, better safe than sorry. Excited to get the bike working for my friend to ride. And for me to ride every once in a while - I'm not really a cruiser guy, but after riding the Savage home, I kinda want one!

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by adberns on 06/25/11 at 13:36:13

Alright, I made a video of the idle. Turns out the noise is pretty much the same cold and hot. Not sure what I was thinking. This video was taken while the engine was cold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txBAxgXLlwc

I go back and forth over whether this sounds like the prior video of cam chain noise that was posted or not.

Any thoughts?

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by Oldfeller on 06/26/11 at 10:38:20

Why should we guess?

You got several possibilities, all meaning some work. A loose cam chain is the lesser of the two and you won't know about that until you take the clutch side cover off and look.

If your cam chain is good then your rockers and cam and cam bearings are likely shot due to an oiling failure.

So, hope like hell for the cam chain to be needing a verslavy and go on in there and look.

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by adberns on 06/26/11 at 18:09:01

Dang, does it really sound like cam bearings/rockers/etc.? Wouldn't that be on the top end? To me, this seems like it's coming from the bottom. I'll check out the cam chain, and update the video as appropriate. Hopefully it'll be a good resource for others!

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by adberns on 06/27/11 at 15:56:28

So, a poll - if this were your bike making the noise, what would you do first - adjust the valves, or pull the clutch cover and check out the cam chain?

Both will be done before riding, but if doing one fixes the noise, I'll feel better faster :-)

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/27/11 at 17:11:17

Id look at the cam chain first.

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by Howitzer on 06/27/11 at 20:02:17

7F7A7C7B6C706D1E0 wrote:

That noise sounds really bad. I suspect cam chain problems.

On a different note, I've heard a few times now that the rockers can get pretty noisy. Is there anyway to fix that? Tightening?

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by Dj12midnit on 06/28/11 at 00:24:53

check the cam chain.

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by adberns on 06/29/11 at 19:52:20

OK, another stupid question. When you can hear cam chain noise, does this mean the adjuster is no longer seated? Even if the adjuster were at 18mm (the recommended service limit here), wouldn't it still be applying tension to the chain and keeping the noise down?

So when you hear the noise, does this mean the adjuster has "popped out" and now nothing is providing tension on the chain?

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by Serowbot on 06/29/11 at 20:05:19

I think it means it's reached the wiggly point at the end of it's travel...
Once it pops out,.. it's a much bigger noise... :-?...

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/29/11 at 20:14:33

Well, yea, the noise IS bigger, but it doesnt last long..

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by Howitzer on 06/29/11 at 20:38:57

21242225322E33400 wrote:

The easiest thing to do would just be to grit your teeth, and pop that clutch cover open. You'll have all your answers then, instead of conjectures.

I would guess that if you're getting noise and vibration, the adjuster is way past the 18mm mark, and starting wobble.

Title: Source of the noise
Post by adberns on 07/02/11 at 15:22:15

As you recall, I posted earlier a YouTube video of a friend's bike that had a bad noise going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txBAxgXLlwc

So, got a chance to check out the bike this weekend. Check it out.

http://https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-VQJR5UVaBg8/Tg-UAxkf1pI/AAAAAAAAAOc/8arT2AXn5jM/s800/IMG_0784.JPG

http://https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-TvU5K5EvD6s/Tg-UkpItxXI/AAAAAAAAAO4/ZXhXK5rqC6k/s800/IMG_0788.JPG

The tensioner was (obviously) completely out. The spring was actually broken, with part in the plunger and part in the body. The tensioner parts were just lightly resting on the gear, which had some wear (shown below).

http://https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pMGLqbdf1wE/Tg-UUmZZWiI/AAAAAAAAAOs/h-b8F0il26Q/s800/IMG_0786.JPG

So, time to get me a Verslavy! Luckily we didn't ride it for long with the noise, and damage seems to be minimal.

Title: Re: Source of the noise
Post by MotoBuddha on 07/02/11 at 15:32:31

Well there's your problem. :o

Aw man. I guess it could have been worse.

If your cam chain has stretched enough to let the tensioner come apart, you might want to replace it. Yeah, it's a bigger job than installing a Verslavy, but it gets to the root of the problem. (For the record, I have a new chain and a Verslavy.)

Title: Re: Source of the noise
Post by drums1 on 07/02/11 at 18:15:31

Mine was about to blow apart. I got the verslavy and it's like new--better than new. Almost 20k on bike now, but I can get at least one more summer out of it before chain job. I still have almost 2 1/2" before chain touches itself. Best mod I did this past winter.

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by adberns on 07/03/11 at 09:16:11

That's encouraging. We are going to try the Verslavy mod, and go from there. Get at least some ride time out of the current cam chain before having to tear things completely down.

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by BurnPgh on 07/03/11 at 22:58:29

you dodged an expensive bullet.

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/03/11 at 23:41:58

The Verlvy is there to Keep the tensioner from falling apart,, he dodged the bullet,, the Verslavy will give many miles of use from that chain.

Title: Re: (cam chain?) noise when cold
Post by ralfyguy on 07/04/11 at 06:22:21

I put mine in some 4,000 miles ago, and still runs like the day I put it in.