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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1307988679 Message started by logcabinmatt on 06/13/11 at 11:11:18 |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by logcabinmatt on 06/13/11 at 11:11:18 My Oil window is very dark, hard to tell if it is full or just covered with a dirty black oil? I just changed oil like 1000 miles ago? Any suggestions? Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by verslagen1 on 06/13/11 at 11:20:56 How many qts did you put in? |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by built2last66 on 06/13/11 at 14:22:01 Take a pic of it with the bike standing vertical, lets have a look. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/13/11 at 14:31:54 How many miles on the bike? If its all skanky in 1,000 miles, maybe you need to change oil again , cuz the PO may notta took great care of that. &. just for the record,, what kinda oil you runnin in it? |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Boofer on 06/13/11 at 16:32:56 JOG, my Rotella gets black in about 10 minutes and I really mean ten minutes, no kidding. Changed the daughter's ATV oil and didn't notice oil plug washer had fallen in the pan. She rode a big circle in the pasture. When I waved her back and "rechanged" the oil she commented that it was black mighty quick. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/13/11 at 17:09:24 210C0C050611630 wrote:
You need to put some Sea Foam in your oil to clean up the engine. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Boofer on 06/13/11 at 17:13:42 I use Seafoam in my gas, but it seems like the Rotella does a good job of scrubbing the engine. The PO of my bike had molasses in the crankcase. 7,000 miles so far, no problems. And my daughter's TRX 300 Honda was well used by twin 12 yr olds. Oil was low when I bought it. And nasty. It's ok now with regular maintanence. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/13/11 at 20:11:31 Th PO did it wrong,,, Mine has 20.000 on it & t uns a good ways b4 th oil looks nasty,, IIRC been a long time since I rode,, |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/14/11 at 10:12:27 <It's ok now with regular maintanence.> Please speak proper Billish now whenever you talk to Bill -- Seafoam is a word he understands, "regular maintenance" is another one of them foreign language terms to him. To Bill, oil should be red, not black. Remember, he wants you to put Seafoam into both your oil and your gasoline. Try asking him "Why?" and it will only confuse and distress him. Stop trying to confuse him, especially with data or facts. =========================== For example, don't do this to him -- this would be cruel and unusual punishment for nice ol' Bill. Fact, if you put a strong detergent package oil into a dirty engine, the new oil quickly picks up the pre-existing crap from every nook and cranny and suspends and holds it (that is if your oil is good enough to do this). It will get black in a hurry if it is doing its job properly. And as Boofer and JOG are trying to tell him (using them funny foreign sounding terms again) if you use a good oil regularly you can KEEP a nice clean engine. Once the engine is clean the new oil stays clean a nice long time, but eventually it turns black anyway as you make some nasty stuff simply by running your engine. The red stuff turns black too, if you would actually run it for a few thousand miles. But that would require you to actually ride your bike that much. ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/14/11 at 10:24:04 If you do preventive maintenance that all you need. KLOTZ SEA FOAM. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by MotoBuddha on 06/14/11 at 10:37:37 One of the stupid things Suzuki did on this bike was put the oil level window behind the exhaust. Another was to make it so you don't get a correct level when the bike is on the side stand (cince there's no center stand). |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/14/11 at 10:43:22 So, if you use KLOTZ and SEAFOAM it prevents you (Bill) from having to do maintenance? I get it -- prevent "it" ive maintenance But how often do you have to change your SEAFOAM ?? We know the KLOTZ is immortal, you've already explained that part -- but how about the SEAFOAM? |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Serowbot on 06/14/11 at 10:46:27 Oil color is not an indication of age or lubricity of the oil, or a dirty engine... The black doesn't come from dirty deposits in the engine, it comes from blowback of carbon past the rings... Some brands of oil will absorb this color faster than others, but that doesn't mean they lube any better... the carbons still there, whether it colors the oil or not, and it's fine enough that it doesn't really hurt anything... Change the oil at regular intervals, (I do it at 2500 to 3000 miles) regardless of color... |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by CalisOsin on 06/14/11 at 10:53:34 4C5A4D50485D504B3F0 wrote:
If that's the case, should a person with consistently black oil check their rings? seems like my oil was pretty black each time I changed it before it suddenly lost compression and died.... seems the 2 were linked huh? well the shop just adjusted the valves, but i'm guessing when they pressure test they'll find out they need to do the rings too... darn. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Serowbot on 06/14/11 at 11:00:03 If you're concerned,... do a compression check,... but, if your performance is good, and you don't burn much oil, I wouldn't worry... ... or swap to a different brand of oil... Some brands may have a different detergent blend that breaks down the carbon and absorbs the color more quickly than others... The question is,... is that a good thing or a bad thing... or does it make any difference at all?... Lubricity tests by oil experts seem to indicate that it doesn't.... |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/14/11 at 11:03:22 3B2D3A273F2A273C480 wrote:
+1 with Klotz you get a better ring to cylinder seal which prevents blow by and gives more horsepower and better gas mileage.My red oil doesn't get black. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by CalisOsin on 06/14/11 at 11:07:01 606B6E6E3435020 wrote:
+1 with Klotz you get a better ring to cylinder seal which prevents blow by and gives more horsepower and better gas mileage.My red oil doesn't get black.[/quote] ok, what kind of klotz? there's a lot! http://www.klotzlube.com/products.asp?cat=4 |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by verslagen1 on 06/14/11 at 11:15:24 242F2A2A7071460 wrote:
What year is your bike and how many miles do you have on it? |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/14/11 at 12:03:23 2006 2 1/2 blocks. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by verslagen1 on 06/14/11 at 12:21:07 646F6A6A3031060 wrote:
No bill, not the pedal car you ride to the mailbox. The boulevarde, the S40, big assed single cylinder. You know, the one you take out when your pretty neighbor is washing her car and you creak and groan bending over to check the oil. :o |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by EJID on 06/14/11 at 12:27:32 Back to the original question...I noticed when I changed my exhaust that there was an exhaust leak at the header to muffler joint which blew all sorts of exhaust black soot on the oil window. In my case it just took a good scrubbing/wipedown of the area to clear things up nicely. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by prechermike on 06/14/11 at 12:40:36 0B04070A4E0 wrote:
That's what I was thinking when I read the post. Wipe the glass and see what happens. But I didn't want to be a smart aleck. Honest! ::) |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/14/11 at 17:34:37 CalisOsin, Bill's claims for Klotz have been the fuel for several oil wars, one of the last of which was a direct Savage engine comparison test between Klotz and Mobil 1 and Rotella Syn. None of Bill's magical claims for Klotz panned out -- the red stuff turned black and had the same (or slightly worse) oil consumption. What we did learn was weight of oil seems to matter a lot, more so than brand as a matter of fact. 20w50 weight oil runs hot as the higher viscosity wastes engine power just stirring it around. The heavy stuff can't suck heat out of your head as fast as lighter oils do, nor can it dump it out through the cases as fast. Your point about very old engines "blowing by" a lot causing oil to get black is valid. I think we were talking about sucking up dirt from abused engines which is something Rotella will do that others (Mobil 1 and Klotz) are not so much good at. Bill's punishment for losing the last oil war was to promise to NEVER make unsubstantiated claims for Klotz oil to a newbie ever again. Bill, what data do you have to back up your claims, or are they more unsubstantiated nonsense all over again? |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by photojoe on 06/14/11 at 18:21:06 72797C7C2627100 wrote:
Bill, you're getting close to oil change time 8-) |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/14/11 at 19:09:53 7C5E53564C704C56513F0 wrote:
+1 with Klotz you get a better ring to cylinder seal which prevents blow by and gives more horsepower and better gas mileage.My red oil doesn't get black.[/quote] ok, what kind of klotz? there's a lot! http://www.klotzlube.com/products.asp?cat=4 [/quote] The MX4 zero wear |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/14/11 at 19:12:58 6D4E4644474E4E4750220 wrote:
Oldfellow you know none of Verys claims worked out I told you at the time the errors he was making that didn't make sense,You must have forgot. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/14/11 at 19:13:41 726A6D766D686D020 wrote:
Bill, you're getting close to oil change time 8-) [/quote] Just a block away. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by verslagen1 on 06/14/11 at 20:06:08 To throw 1 more log on the bill bond fire... I have 2 savages with about 45k miles each, both have used rotsyn mostly both have used Mobil1 20w50 for 1 month in the summer 1 has used klotz and amsoil for about 5 weeks in the summer guess which one needed rings after? |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/14/11 at 21:00:55 I'll bite the rest of you are jest too durn chicken I bet the engine that got the oil switched around the most is the one that crapped out. Why? Engines get used to one oil's film characteristics, then they want to act funny until they get used to the next oil's film characteristics. Example, my clutches always acted wonky during a change over until the second oil change of the new stuff. Next, a question -- which oil will you use after you finish your break in? All of it rolls into that one question -- you are the one who did the oil comparisons, you lived with it, you learned from it. Some of it isn't technical, it is gut interpretations of things you see as you go along. Which oil goes into the new big bored out hot cammed engine as the oil of choice to protect your investment in money and time? |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by verslagen1 on 06/14/11 at 21:37:43 rotdino is in there now, next is rotsyn. and when summer comes... I'll get around to the oil cooler project. I put the oil pressure gage in for the 1st week. and until it warmed up, idle produced 50 psi. then it dropped to 5ish. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/15/11 at 05:16:54 Bill, got anything to add to this? .... like mebbe tell us why you are still paying $12 a quart for the red stuff after it has been debunked as being no better than the $5 a quart stuff that comes in the blue gallon jugs? ======================== Verslagen, consider this when putting your oil cooler in place. You only get less than 50% of the total oil flow through the cooler using the stock connection locations. You can change that to any percentage up to 100% by fiddling with the size of the side cover gasket hole that the side gallery goes through to get to the filter area in the side cover. Block that hole off completely and you force ALL the oil to detour around through the oil cooler. And don't forget your check valves so you can still check your oil level using the little view window ..... The head is the most temp sensitive area of the engine and the passages to get there are internal to the jug and the head. Oil reaching the head cam bearing gets warmed up to engine head temperatures no matter how cool it is in the sump. Keeping oil sump temps over 212 deg is a good thing, keeps water combustion vapors from condensing in the sump. Your oil of choice is good to over 500 degrees, temps our engines never even approach on a bad day. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/15/11 at 05:26:54 Suzuki didn't put and oil cooler on the S40 because they just assumed everyone would be using oil make for motorcycles.The S40 needs and oil cooler like it needs a hole in the piston. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by CalisOsin on 06/15/11 at 09:22:54 Oldfeller - So weight matters most and changing oil brands often is a problem. So once I pick a brand and a weight, I need to stcik with it. Brand isn't my concern, but how do I pick the right weight? You said 20W50 runs hot? Should I just stick with the recommended 10W40? I live in beautiful Orange County, Ca so extreme weather isn't really a factor. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/15/11 at 12:56:38 Cal, We are jest revisiting the last 2-3 oil wars so some of these comments are jest us fielding the hot potato just lobbed at us. Truth is ANY good oil is OK, you certainly don't need to be popping $12 a quart for Klotz. The Rotdino and Rotsyn referred to as the oil war "winner" is Rotella T Triple Protection which you can buy at WalMart for $12 a gallon. Rotella T Triple Protection is a dino based oil that many here on the list use for all seasons -- it is a 15w40 oil. Read the white jug's label carefully and you will see it carries both of the current JASO ratings for motorcycle use (it is a recognized motorcycle oil). It is sold in big gallon jugs for over the road 16 wheelers and in that packaging it is dirt cheap to buy it at Wal Mart. It is the most commonly used oil for the Savage. If you want a fancy full synthetic oil (which the Savage really does not require) you can buy Rotella Synthetic in the big blue gallon jugs for $21 a gallon at Wal Mart (or $5.25 a quart) which is less than half the cost of the Klotz that beat out in the oil testing). Jest ignore Bill, he loves to provoke us all by tell newbies to go buy his red koolaid knowing full well he'll get a response of some kind. Avoid car oils with the energy star symbol on them -- they contain friction modifiers that will screw up your wet clutch. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by CalisOsin on 06/16/11 at 10:57:38 OldFeller, thanks for ther great info, I've seen the oil war pop up all over in different threads but never read the final result in any of those. And with it popping up so often it was hard to find in the search. I appreciate you spelling it out for me. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Boofer on 06/16/11 at 19:16:29 I ran 10w40 Castrol Acteveo for about 3500 miles until a friend told me to switch to Rotella T 15w40 from WalMart. Since they race Kawa amd Ktm dirt bikes I took the plunge. Another 3500 miles. I live in N Mississippi and have had no oiling problems that I know of. Bill runs Klotz and apparently gets a share of their sales. ;D ;D Kidding aside, it is a good oil, too. Pick your poison. That's all I got. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by dekuji63 on 06/16/11 at 19:38:03 Since I'm sitting in 100º weather and my first big service including oil change is coming up, will the Rot 15w40 still play nicely with that kind of ambient temperature? I'm not terribly concerned about color but if I can get some to match my bike, that would be sweet! ;) |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/16/11 at 20:21:05 Rot is made for high compression diesel engines,So you want get blow by in diesel engines because of the high compression,In a low compression engine like the S40's you will get blow by,So if your bike is black that ok because that is the same color your oil will be shortly. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Serowbot on 06/16/11 at 23:04:12 The only problem I've ever had with oil, was with Pep boys house brand... It was on sale at a giveaway price, and I had a 20 year old Datsun truck with 160k miles... The valves sounded like a box of rocks... I dumped it after 50 miles... Other than that,.. any name brand oil, not labeled "gas saver"... is good enough for this bike... The important thing is to remember to change it... As far as weight,... at least 10 on the low number if it gets cold where you are,... and at least 40 on the high side if it gets hot... 10w40 works great... 20w50 too, if you not crazy enough to ride below freezing... There,... that ought to trigger an oil war... ;D... PS... I used 10w40 Valvoline and Pennzoil car dino for the first 20k miles on my bike,... and it worked fine ('cause I bought it on sale by bulk)... Now that I'm all out of stock,... I use Rotella dino,... 'cause I've heard good things from fellow bikers and it was confirmed here... Workin' fine too... The important thing is to change it, regular... like any other oil... I do 2500 to 3000 miles... and alternate filter changes... 'cause I'm lazy... Laaazzzzyyy!!!... |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/17/11 at 00:43:15 Bill is speaking in Billish to the newbies again, so let me translate for you. ============= Rotella T was developed for 20:1 compression ratio big diesel engines that have piston side loads and bearing con rod loads that FAR FAR exceed our 10:1 Savage engine's requirements. Diesel engines commonly get their oil changed at 50,000+ mile intervals and Rotella T has been tested and used at 80,000 to 100,000 mile oil change intervals. The Savage needs to be oil changed every 2,500 to 5,000 miles because our oil filtration system really isn't all that good compared to what is on a big diesel truck. Neither is our air filtration, which is how all that silica gets into the oil in the first place. White jug Rotella T dino oil is all the stock Savage requires. It costs $12 a gallon at WalMart. Most of the moddy boys do use a synthetic oil like Rotella T-6 Synthetic (blue jug) simply to get the very high 500+ temperature overheating protection and extra film strength these synthetic oils provide. Savage engines generally stay under 350 degrees in the hottest part of the head and can use normal oils just fine. But some of us have hot cams and big pistons and other mods that make us want the extra bit of protection that Rotsyn and other full synthetic oils provide. Bill hates Rotella products for a reason, for every dubious advertising claim that his $12.00 a quart Klotz red stuff makes Rotella products have independent data from places like Bobistheoilguy.com or from the major diesel engine makers or from the major long distance bike websites saying Rotella products do the same job or better at half or less than the cost of Klotz. All his favorite BS talking points keep getting shot down in flames .... Bill likes to call Verslagen a liar periodically (because Verslagen actually tested his red koolaid in the same Savage engine head to head with Rotsyn, Mobil 1 and Amisol and published the data) and Bill keeps saying that Klotz is real motorcycle oil (implying incorrectly that Rotella isn't). His favorite claim is that Klotz is "zero wear oil" a claim that was started out by Mobil 1 in the mid 70's and follow on by Amisol, testing that was based on 100,000 mile gas engine tests that is nowhere near rigorous enough for normal diesel engine testing. 100,000 miles on a test rig isn't near the life of a diesel engine heck a diesel truck can get that much dumped on them in only one month's time. Real diesel engine tests go a million plus miles and more and guess which oil leads the pack on those long term diesel wear tests ..... Rotsyn, my favorite ;D "We don't have diesel motorcycles" This is true. Proof that even a blind pig occasionally finds an acorn of truth in all the trash he roots through. Bill generally loses his oil wars but he never never never gives up. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/17/11 at 03:37:09 Diesel engines normally run around 2500 rpm or less,If you don't run over 2500 rpm Rot in the blue and white containers might be Ok ( might be OK),Cars run around 2500 rpm,Few motorcycles run low rpm going down the road,That why motorcycle oils are different they are made to with stand 10,000 12000 rpm.Verys was using Rot oil before he did his so called test,There was know way he wasn't going to say it was the best.He said it was the best before his test.Oldfellow your biggest reason to use Rot oil has always been its cheap.Save pennies today and spend dollars tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/17/11 at 07:35:57 Diesel cars turn a reasonable RPM range -- same range as the Savage. Rotella got its motorcycle rep running in all sorts of motorcycles that rev a lot more than the Savage does. Hondas and Yamahas and Suzuki in-line fours rev right on up there with the best of them. We max out at 6,500 rpm in a stock Savage, although I have tested Rotsyn at higher rpms than that in mine and can verify it does jest fine. Here is what my last top end tear down looked like. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Condition_of_tappets.JPG Verslagen had Mobil 1 in his crankcase before he began the testing. He did Rotsyn second and reported that it was "as good as" then when everybody wanted numbers he started bought temperature gauging and started collecting accurate numbers and reporting them. Klotz was the third oil tested, Amisol was the fourth oil tested. He reported the data we all asked him to collect, and you were there with your requests as well. As a matter of fact I don't think Verslagen or Charon were Rotella fans when this all started out. Cheap? Is that do you call an award winning world class product that comes in great big jugs (takes 5 gallon jugs to change out a 16 wheeler tractor) that comes without any expensive graphics or marketing cost burdens on top of it? There is nothing cheap about Rotella T or Rotsyn. Too many top of class awards for you to be saying that. Now if you are saying I am "cheap" because I buy really great oil for less than half of what you pay for Klotz, well then you 1) pay too much for your oil and 2) have just insulted over half the list with your comments. Are you guys all "cheap" or are you just smarter than the average Billium bear? Now, do I admit being cheap? Yep, and proud of it. It is a survival trait that does me good duty in these economic times. ================ Economic Survival quiz: Which would you do? Justify your answer in writing. Buy 2 quarts of Klotz for $12.99 each (plus $8.00 shipping of course) and change your oil once for a total of around $30.00 or Buy one gallon of Rotella T next time you go by the Wal Mart for $11.99 and change your oil for a third the cost and have enough left over to change it again later for free? or Loving the extra protection a synthetic provides, buy a blue gallon jug of Rotella T6 Synthetic for $21.99 and be able to change your oil twice? |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/17/11 at 08:23:02 Charon also said 10% gas is better than 100% pure gas do you agree with him. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/17/11 at 08:45:47 Don't change the subject jest because you are starting to lose again -- Charon isn't here to defend himself and gasoline choices don't have a thing to do with yer motor oil. Charon was at least honest enough to say he changed his mind in weight of the evidence .... |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Serowbot on 06/17/11 at 08:51:38 595257570D0C3B0 wrote:
If he was talking about cabbage, I do... I don't know about the need for an oil cooler, but... I do wish our exhaust wasn't routed so close to the engine case... Has anybody considered testing the effects of adding a heat shield or header wrap in that area, on oil temp?... It could result in an easy mod... |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/17/11 at 09:26:24 40636B696A63636A7D0F0 wrote:
Everything I said Charon said I was wrong.I had Suzuki GR 650s so did Charon,I had mine geared 1000 less rpm than stock,Drove 28000 miles no problems with the higher gearing I love the relaxed rpm on freeways and trip.I had evidence it was a lot nicer high of 68 mpg. But he talked like you shouldn't gear a bike higher,He didn't know because he didn't do it, I did and i know because I did it.He also Sea Foam was no good. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by Oldfeller on 06/17/11 at 12:53:13 I have never noted any sludge or crust build up on the inside in that pipe area on my bike or on Serenity's old 57,000 mile engine. I theorize that the double wall exhaust pipe stays cool enough that the radiant heat simply warms the aluminum cases some then the heat is conducted away by the aluminum housings and the oil pool behind them and is expressed out into the air as general radiant heat from the whole lower engine. These aluminum case areas are backed up by the oil pool in the sump and the circulation filled oil filter cavity so you can see it would be kinda tough to locally overheat these side case areas as they have places to conduct that heat away to that are nice and ready at hand. ============ Bill, Charon has been gone for about 6-8 months now and he was on your side for the first 2-3 oil wars, so please quit kicking about his opinions on gasoline and gearing during a current oil war. As far as you working on a bike to change the gearing, how many years ago was that? 20-30 years ago? Focus on today .... say something good about Klotz that can be verified or say something bad about Rotella that can be proven. |
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Title: Re: Oil Change time..Oil Window confusion? Post by bill67 on 06/17/11 at 13:25:53 If the S40 was chain drive it would be geared higher,I like the belt drive I would pay $500 if I could get a pulley and belt to give me a least 500 less rpm at 60 mph.And Charon was never on by side about the oil or anything else. |
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