SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Need Help!!
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1307939069

Message started by MagickNinja on 06/12/11 at 21:24:28

Title: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/12/11 at 21:24:28

Ok so, I'm new here and would like to say hello first. I read alot on this site before purchasing my bike and I'm hoping someone might be able to help. I apologize for the long post, might as well explain it all.

I bought a 1987 LS650 with 13k miles for $600. Needs a back tire, turn signal and a peg as the kickstand doesn't stay down on its own and the guy who sold it to me dropped it in his driveway. I felt I got a great deal, the bike is beautiful. Seat needs redone but all the chrome is in nice shape as well as the paint. It's painted a dark blue and has skulls with a full house poker hand on both sides of the tank (Aces and 8s) and lighter blue pinstriping. Even though it was dropped, I can't tell any damage aside from a busted signal lens and a broken peg.

My younger brother is a mechanic and has worked on many bikes but usually dirtbikes. We went through the carb and cleaned it, checked all the jets and he said it looked surprisingly good and the gas in the tank was still good. The previous owner claimed it needed carbs cleaned or a new fuel line because it, "just didn't run right."

We replaced all the little hoses just to be safe. New battery, oil change, the usual stuff. Our first day of fun was hell because the bike would start right up and idle great but didn't seem to wanna rev at all. I told him about the spacer I read about on this forum and we tried multiple adjustments and nothing seemed to change...the bike ran the same.

Today we realized that the carb had been put together wrong when we first got it, and we were putting back together as we found it. Once my brother put it together right she would fire right up, idle great and rev up! YES!.....no...don't get exicted because for the next 4 hours my brother and I tried original spacer, 1 washer, 2 washers, 3 washers etc and no matter what we did, she bogs in the midrange under load.

Once the carb was setup right, we noticed the difference with different spacers but on every try the bike took off pretty well but would bog in the midrange or you'd have to very gradually give it gas to gain speed.

Also, I've read nothing but backfire, backfire, backfire about these bikes yet mine does not! ON ANY SETTING! The most we noticed was a tiny lil "PUH" on shutdown. Why? The original plug was white, the bike obviously ran lean but it doesn't suffer from the backfire at all.

After lots of trying today we got it running and idling great, and take off is "decent", the bike is even rideable but it's not "right". We think maybe because of our elevation some of the usual stuff doesn't apply? I live in Boise, Id and we're at 2700-3000ft. No matter how lean we ran it, it didn't backfire. It doesn't smoke or smell funny at all. Sitting still the bike sounds like shes ready to rock but soon as you take off its fighting to take the throttle.

My brother thinks rejetting might help. We think perhaps someone owned this bike somewhere else, brought it to Idaho or sold it to someone and its never been right since due to the change in elevation.

Also we noticed today that some oil was on the jug fins, we wiped it clean and ran it down the road and back and a little more had shown up. Looks like the valve cover is leaking a bit and my brother also said a valve job would probably be a great idea anyway. After looking closely at the leak, we found small boogers of orange "hi-temp" and my brother shook his head and said someone was definately into it already. We did notice a tap the very first time we started it, but never heard it since.

Oh, and we checked the petcock, all is well. So, any idea? Does this just sound like a bike that needs rejetted because of the elevation or does this sound like something else? Do you have to remove the engine to change the valve cover gasket? Doesn't look like much room between the valve cover and the frame.

I've read about carb changes and my brother thinks this vacuum stuff is a bit unnecessary and thinks I'd be better off with a more simple carb thats easier to adjust like that of a dirtbike.

I'd just take the thing to a shop but I really don't know of any here that I could trust, not to mention I bought the bike because of the low maintenance appeal and simplicity. We seem close but maybe we're missing something. Thanks in advance for any help!

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by verslagen1 on 06/12/11 at 21:48:55

Hey magic welcome

Yes I think you need a rejet, but the idle jet is just fine maybe rich. Leave it till we figure out the main jet. what is it? for an '87 a 155 would be stock. there's a number stamped on the head. Check the link below. look at carb spec's for the setup of the carb.

the kickstand is pretty touchy, but sounds like yours is bent or something.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/12/11 at 21:52:53

PPics of sidestand mite help.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/12/11 at 22:07:01

I'd post pics but I was under the impression I couldn't yet?

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by verslagen1 on 06/12/11 at 22:19:27

check the link below for how to post pics

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/12/11 at 22:28:27

I'll have to check the jet tomorrow. I live in the mountains 23 miles away but leave the bike at his place til we work out the bugs. If it's stock, would be want to go up or down in size?

Also, the small oil leak is coming from between the top 2 fins it seems. Is this suppose to have a gasket? I can't seem to find a replacement anywhere.

I'd like to add that even though I've only ridden this bike a few times, and it hasnt run right yet, I love it already. It's my 3rd bike, first being a '94 Suzuki GSF400 Bandit and the other being a '79 Kawasaki KZ750.

Didn't care for the Kawasaki, but man that Bandit was an absolute blast to ride. I just had a tendancy to go too fast without realizing it. This Savage is...well sexy and for me comfortable (5'11 200lbs).

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/12/11 at 22:35:24

Only pic I have at the moment. I can take more tomorrow of the kickstand or anything else.

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j126/infernalharvest/0609011846.jpg

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by verslagen1 on 06/12/11 at 22:36:39

There's a plug that's under the cover that notorious for leaking.
most shops don't apply rtv to it and after awhile it leaks.

the head cover goes on with rtv only.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/12/11 at 22:50:10

thanks for your help.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by jdeluca on 06/13/11 at 03:18:43

This will clear up that little oil leak...
http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1099227295
When I picked up my plug, it was like $15 at the dealer.
As for the carb/bogging down, I'm no "expert", but I'd agree with verslagen1 as far as checking the main jet and going from there.
Nice looking bike, I'd say you got a steal!

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by VAFarmer on 06/13/11 at 05:11:43

Very nice score, Majick.

I am also new, and didn't get as good of a deal as you did, but mine HAS been pretty much trouble free.

I hadn't been on a bike in years......but my hour commute and this 3.50 gas has me back on one.
Are you liking the power on it so far? I am exacty your build 5'11 and float between 190 and 2.

When I bought it, I thought it might be a little underpowered, but got to open it up this weekend. My bike seems to like the top end .

Good luck and God bless,

Farmer

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/13/11 at 13:57:19

64737453405F5740320 wrote:

Thanks! Yeah, the guy was asking $1000 on craigs. I noticed his ad was a few weeks old and gave him a call. I didn't even make an offer and the guy said I could come get it for $600. The guy had money...beautiful house and 2 Honda trail 110s that had less than 400 miles and were all original in showroom condition. He said he bought the bike for $600 from his friend, just wanted to break even on the deal. I was happy to oblige him.

Unfortunately, I've only gotten to ride it about 5 times, each time being a couple blocks and not leaving 2nd gear. It feels like it has loads of power just waiting to come out but this carb issue is holding her back. I have chirped the tire a couple times and she doesn't even run right yet.

With the small amount I've ridden it, I find it very comfortable. I think the power will be more than adequate. I live Idaho, and summer time is camping and cruising. Lots of windy mountain roads with 60mph speed limits and no traffic (maybe a deer or elk though!). I can't wait for it to get running correctly because I have no intention of selling her anytime soon. I think me and my girl are gonna take good care of her and see her through many many of miles.

When I first saw the bike, first thing I thought was "shame...its too small". I was bummed but decided to go check it out in person anyway. I had recently tried out a Yamaha Maxim XS400 and even though it appeared small, it fit me decently.

The Savage fits me pretty darn well. My legs are in a comfortable position without being too bent or too straight and my reach for the handlebars was a bit too close but we fixed that with an adjustment.

I should point out my younger brother is 6ft and about 165lbs. and during all this he's ridden it much more than I. He has a 1981 Yamaha Virago 750 bobber and we actually put the bikes side by side to compare. His bike seemed bulkier but overall was very similar with the Savage having a more "american" rake to the front.

His Virago is a hardtail, sits real low with drag bars. He first said I should dump my pullback bars but now that he's been riding it alot and working on it, he said to me, "I don't know man...everytime I ride this bike I like it more and more. It's more comfortable than my Virago by far, I'm really starting to dig this bike." I looked at him and said, "No, it's NOT for sale."

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by verslagen1 on 06/13/11 at 14:09:36

05292F212B230621262229480 wrote:

" I looked at him and said, "No, it's NOT for sale."

Stick to yer guns boy, he'll horn in on your riding time.

Just fixed up another savage for my brother to ride too.
He couldn't beleave the torque for such a little bike.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/13/11 at 14:10:09

4A44454C554341200 wrote:

Thanks! Yeah I thought it was nice too. It's not decals eithers, it's all hand painted. Needs a touch up here n there but it's nice.

I dunno, I've been reading alot and I find it funny that my brother keeps telling me to ditch that carb and go with something like the VM. Seems like a hassle though, I don't have $300 to buy some premade Kit. Anyone know how to get a custom cable? I can get a VM brand new for $75.

I think we need to tear it apart again. We must've missed something and talking to my older brother (also a mechanic) he thinks we should just rebuild it...looked around for a rebuilt kit and didn't find one. You'd think with the popularity and fact that they still make these bikes this would be easy to find.

Thanks for your help.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by jdeluca on 06/13/11 at 19:18:12

For the hell of it, pull that carb back off, disassemble it, and boil it in a 75%/25% water/lemon juice mix for like 10 minutes (metal parts only, no rubber) and then rinsing it with some WD-40. The carb itself isn't a bad carb, just has some ridiculously small passaged (Right Serowbot?)
Lancer would definitely be able to set you on the right path as far as a VM carb and new cables...

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by papi_ocho on 06/14/11 at 06:24:34

505E5F564F595B3A0 wrote:

Does that really work?

I need to clean my carb BAD! and replace a damaged jet or two :-? Opps

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/17/11 at 13:59:52

415245445B5650525906370 wrote:

[quote author=05292F212B230621262229480 link=1307939069/0#11 date=1307998639]" I looked at him and said, "No, it's NOT for sale."

Stick to yer guns boy, he'll horn in on your riding time.

Just fixed up another savage for my brother to ride too.
He couldn't beleave the torque for such a little bike.[/quote]

lol I will! I see him eyeballin' it all the time now. He's even made comments that since he's the mechanic he should get to take her out on her first major ride...I laughed.

He said the same thing! When I first showed him the bike he was skeptical to say the least. He had just worked on my bass players (I'm in a band) old 70s Honda XR500 and was thinking I wouldn't be getting much more out of this Savage than that enduro. But after riding it a couple times he's since blown that idea out of the water and thinks this Savage is a beast.

To be honest, ever since I got this bike on such a great steal he's been kinda bummed about his bike. It just doesn't have the same appeal it use to when he looks at it and then looks at mine. I feel for him...but he ain't gettin' my Savage!

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/17/11 at 14:00:36

7465746D6B676C6B040 wrote:

[quote author=505E5F564F595B3A0 link=1307939069/0#14 date=1308017892]For the hell of it, pull that carb back off, disassemble it, and boil it in a 75%/25% water/lemon juice mix for like 10 minutes (metal parts only, no rubber) and then rinsing it with some WD-40. The carb itself isn't a bad carb, just has some ridiculously small passaged (Right Serowbot?)
Lancer would definitely be able to set you on the right path as far as a VM carb and new cables...

Does that really work?

I need to clean my carb BAD! and replace a damaged jet or two :-? Opps
[/quote]

actually yes, boiling carbs with water/lemon juice is considered one of the best ways to clean carbs yourself.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/17/11 at 14:46:42

I'm going to boil my carb today. I also noticed in the jetting guide it recommends running a 155 main with the cone filter and a HD muffler. I believe my bike already has the 155 stock ('86 and '87). I already ordered a cone filter and just noticed a rail mount dyna muffler for $60 after shipping on ebay. But I may look around locally to see what harley shops have stuff to buy and how cheap.

If my logic is correct, by putting on the HD muffler and new filter, I should NOT have to rejet because I'm already at the recommended 155 main correct? Remember I'm at 2700-3000ft elevation.

There is a shop here called Cyclone Cycles, it's an hour drive for me to go see him but I keep hearing he's the best and cheapest around. He's also the only shop around with an EGA and can tell me exactly what jets and mixture I need. Its only $50 to do this so once the bike runs right I think I will.

Thanks for all your help!

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/18/11 at 13:21:16

The bike still refuses to run correctly.

We totally disassembled the carb, took all the jets out and checked everything. Everything is clean, like very clean. The main is a 155 and the pilot is a 47.5. We tried a different pilot jet that had bleeder holes and you could tell the bike was running richer but still did the same thing...Now I'm wondering if it's the carb at all.

Just to explain again, the bike acts as if it has a rev-limiter. When sitting at idle it sounds great. When revving it at a stand still you can tell it should be revving faster but it still revs. Then when you take off and hit the gas, after about 2/4 throttle it doesn't go anymore, it just stays. Sounds like a rev limiter. It doesn't want to take the throttle. Only takes gas gradually. I do not know how my elevation (2700ft) affects things.

The general consensus around here seems to be the bike isn't getting enough fuel...but this makes no sense to me as the bike doesn't backfire. If the bike was running lean...why am I not showing the extremely well documented and known problem of these bikes backfiring. At this point, I'd LOVE to hear a backfire because at least it'd be something different than what I've been hearing. Thus far, only a tiny "Puh" is heard on shutdown.

I've tried running the bike with the filter out and it doesn't seem to make much difference other than it gets louder. I've tried every spacer setting from stock to no spacer and the bike did not change. I think with no spacer we could smell some gas but it acted the same. With 2/4 washers, the bike revved it's highest, but still not like it should and no matter what it doesn't take the throttle on take off. You have to gradually give it gas.

We've checked the petcock, running in Prime or On doesn't seem to make much difference. On Prime the gas comes out of the petcock in a steady stream.

I'm really getting frustrated here. I'm starting to see why I got such a great deal.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/18/11 at 14:32:53

Have you looked to see if you can see any sign of a mechanic venturing into the engine Anywhere? Look closely for wrench marks, grease/dirt moved away from a bolt head.

Either way, you need to check your cam timing.
The quickest, easiest way? I wouldnt know offhand,,

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by Serowbot on 06/18/11 at 14:45:00

When you checked the petcock,... did you block off the vacuum tap?... or just turn to prime?...
Do this test...
How to check your petcock,... (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1)

... also,... is there a small washer under the main jet?... There should be...

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by OE on 06/18/11 at 15:19:44

I've never heard of anyone replacing the slide but considering it's vacuum operated, if there's a leak in the diaphragm or in the top of the carburetor it would cause it not to open properly.

The slide and diaphragm come as one assembly and it's not cheap so it would be a pretty expensive experiment. Anywhere between $125 and $145 at the dealer.

You are aware there's a tab on the diaphragm that's supposed to go into a small indentation on top of the carb body.

I know you've had the slide out several times changing the spacer so you've probably checked the diaphram already but I thought I'd throw this out anyway just in case.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/18/11 at 16:09:17

I wish w had a KNown Good Carb & a Nown Good petcock we could ship from victim to victim,, so they could prove where the problem is.

Im still huntin a known good tpyist

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/18/11 at 16:21:20

637C7A7D60675666566E7C703B090 wrote:

I noticed a small oil look at the top fin on the gear shift side and my brother noticed orange hitemp after close inspection but from what I understand, these don't have a gasket for this part and is suppose to be assembled this way.

My brother also mentioned possible valve issues but thinks its unlikely due to how well the bike runs otherwise. You'd think she was tip-top how she starts and idles. It even seems to have good take off power but quickly becomes rich or lean and ruins it.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/18/11 at 16:27:08

6F796E736B7E73681C0 wrote:

If I remember right we just put it on Prime and pulled the hose, it was shootin' a steady stream of gas. Then during test runs we'd try both ON and PRIME and didn't notice a significant difference.

The washer is there like it should be. I'm not thinking we are starving for gas, I'm thinking maybe we are getting too much.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/18/11 at 16:34:46

1311353030392E5C0 wrote:

My brother was aware of the diaphram and the notch in the top since the first time we took it apart. Like I said he's got lots of experience working on single cylinder bikes, just usually dirtbikes. He's no stranger to a carb.

Yeah, I've heard about the ridiculous expenses, which is why I'm looking at a VM. I wish I had a carb that I knew functioned to throw on and just see if it fixed the issue or not. I don't want to spend $135 on a new carb and jets etc. just to find out it didn't fix it.

Thanks for your input, it is appreciated.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/18/11 at 16:47:03

is my logic wrong in thinking maybe I'm getting too much gas? If I was running lean I'd expect backfiring. I was talking with my brother about it and he mentioned the only time it backfired was when he put the carb together with the white spacer AND a washer. Then while revving it backfired alot and ran poorly.

Too much gas so I mentioned floats, but its not overflowing or leaking. We thought about the needle jet but it was nice and clean. Could all of this really be caused by a overly rich Main jet?

My main is a 155, which came stock so I don't see how it could be the problem. The jetting chart recommends I run a 147.5 since I'm using a stock muffler and filter, but apparently the bike ran with a 155 from the factory so I'm just lost.

The pipe isn't blue, it's a goldish color. The original plug came out whitish as though it ran lean stock as everyone has mentioned. The exhaust doesn't show any signs of being clogged.

The more we look the more it seems to not be a carb issue or something really simple we're over-looking.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by Serowbot on 06/18/11 at 17:10:56

Do a proper test of the petcock...

Pretty sure that's the problem. Gas is leaking down the petcock vacuum tap into the intake...

Follow instructions here...How to check your petcock,... (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429/1)

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/18/11 at 17:34:14

7563746971646972060 wrote:

I told my brother what you said. He's going to suck on the hose and see if gas comes through. I'll let you know what he finds.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/19/11 at 00:43:58

283E29342C39342F5B0 wrote:

checked the petcock, it's fine. doesn't leak, everything is working normal. *shrug*

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/19/11 at 12:59:50

apparently this isn't something that can be fixed by messing around and asking questions here. I have 2 choices, chop it into tiny pieces and throw it over a cliff for my frustration (sounds like a good idea atm) or take it to a bike shop, bend over and pay out the ... just to find out the problem was something stupid.

I'm gonna take it to a local shop tomorrow morning. If he says he can't fix it, it's going over a cliff. If he can, I'll report back with the problem and perhaps that can help others save the frustration. Nothing in the table of contents helped me. I've spent the last week reading this website everyday. It's a load of awesome information but unfortunately none of it was my problem. Leave it to me to get the oddball bike that doesn't act like most do. I'm still baffled by the no backfire thing...I'm curious if it's going to backfire alot when I get it back.

Thank you all for your input and help. It's clear that I'm the 3rd person to encounter this problem. The guy I bought the bike from said he bought it from his friend as a "fixer". He said it needed a new fuel line or carb cleaned. His friend couldn't figure this problem out and apparently neither could the guy I got it from. Lets hope this dude at the shop figures it out. Thanks again.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/11 at 16:16:03

WAIT!! Did you plug the tube on the carb the vac line goes on?

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/19/11 at 17:42:11

081711160B0C3D0D3D05171B50620 wrote:

WAIT!! Did you plug the tube on the carb the vac line goes on?

Not sure exactly what he did. I'll have to ask him. I know he said he sucked real hard on the line and no gas came out but it did have a tiny bit inside the hose.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/19/11 at 17:56:52

Unless the Vacuum Source on the Carb is PLugged Off,, you have a vacuum leak. Testing the petcock requires following the instructions on the site, follow the steps carefully.

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/19/11 at 23:34:47

Ok so, get ready to laugh. The bike is fixed for the most part.

We tested the petcock as described and it turned out fine. BUT, my brother took it for a ride with the vacuum line off of the carb and it didn't bog...so then we're thinking ok...more air made the bike right. So we put it back together, plugged off the vacuum stuff and took for a ride again...it bogged. So then we took the air filter completely out of the bike and ran it again, no bogging. So, then we hooked the lines back up, put petcock to ON and tried, no bogging, ran fine.

Upon close inspection the filter wasn't very dirty but someone put way too much oil on it. We removed the air filter completely and put the snorkle back on and the bike ran pretty good. Takes off good and takes the gas throughout the throttle range. I think we still need to do some tweaking as it wasn't perfect but we're close!

So then my brother reminded me of the Savage 650 bobber we saw on youtube that had straight header and a turn-out tip and how good it sounded. So we decided to take the muffler off (GASP). We got it off and my brother happened to have a slash cut beauty tip for a car and it slipped right on and covered up the uglyness.

Let me tell you...wow thats loud lol. It sounds totally different than the stock muffler obviously. Had a real nice thump on idle and sounds just obnoxious when you rev it.

So then we took it for a ride this way, no air filter, no muffler, and she seemed to have more power than ever before. The crackling when you let off the gas is just awesome. I really want to run it this way, I'll have to see if I get pulled over. Here in Boise every single Harley that rides by is straight pipes and obnoxiously loud so I doubt I'll have too much trouble. Can't say that about the neighbors though.

If it is too much, I grabbed a couple mufflers out of my triumph parts and this one I have almost fits. It looks like a miniature Dyna, even has a similar rail mount on it. The parts were all for my 1973 Bonneville 750 and some 650 parts as I got a frame and motor in a box too. Not sure if this exhaust came from the 750 or 650 parts, I have quite a few extra pipes and mufflers for the triumph laying around so I couldn't tell you offhand which it came from. But if its just too loud I know we can make this one work. If anyone is interested I can take a pic of it tomorrow and post it.

I'm going to buy a filter for it, get a nice cone one so she can breathe. It's funny because I had asked about the jetting chart and how it recommends to run a 155 with the high flow filter and better muffler. My bike has a 155 main jet stock, so I guess it's no wonder the more we take off, the better it runs.

What size filter should I get? Didn't see any 40mm on ebay but was plenty 42mm. Need to order some new footpegs too. The left one by the shifter is broken. Looks like these would bolt right on....

http://www.cruisercustomizing.com/detail.cfm?product_id=700&manufacturer_id=16

anyone tried them? Thoughts?

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 06/20/11 at 04:47:25

YEE HA!,,, Im not gonna laff,, Im happy for ya. Who ever said check the air filter needs a slap on the back..

Title: Re: Need Help!!
Post by MagickNinja on 06/20/11 at 11:03:40

2A353334292E1F2F1F27353972400 wrote:

YEE HA!,,, Im not gonna laff,, Im happy for ya. Who ever said check the air filter needs a slap on the back..

I don't recall anyone mentioning the air filter but yeah. Probably because it's kind of expected that someone would check it. Which we did check it more than once and it looked pretty clean. We even ran it without the filter but we were also doing alot of experimenting with the carb too so I don't know. In the end it was way too much oil on the filter, it's a wonder she started at all.

It's still not taking gas super great, it doesn't bog or anything but on a low rpm takeoff it takes a moment to catch up. Once I get everything on the bike like I want it I'll take it to that guy and have him hook it up to the EGA and tell me exactly what jets and mixture I need.

The carb is now back to completely stock as I was getting ready to take this to a shop and didn't want to cause confusion so I put it back together with the white spacer. I bet if I messed with the needle position now it would fix my slow takeoff!

Still no backfiring...this still bugs me as so many people complain about it and I feel like if the bike was setup right it would backfire but it doesn't. I'm not looking for cool backfire sounds as some kinda macho thing, I've just read so much about these bikes doing this naturally and it drives me nuts that mine doesn't. Makes me feel like something isn't right.

Thanks for not laughing Justin, its appreciated. And thanks to everyone who tried to help.