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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1303076792 Message started by sillydilly on 04/17/11 at 14:46:31 |
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Title: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/17/11 at 14:46:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNvJSeSe_Bg Just tore the carb apart and gave her a better cleaning. the air jet was clogged so I was certain it would run nice for sure. When I first fired it up, there was a good amount of white smoke coming from the exhaust, and what appeared to be near the right footpeg. This worried me. I let her run for a little bit but she still runs rough. I tried to do a bit of a choke/throttle demonstration hoping you guys can help me out. I know it needs a valve adjustment, but can anyone else here a bit of a knock? |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/17/11 at 15:10:59 I should also add that I think the white smoke might have been WD-40, I used it to lube up the carb slide so I think on the initial fire it came out white. Ran it again, this time feeling the clutchcover and I can make out a little bit of movement when it rattles/knocks |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by Serowbot on 04/17/11 at 15:11:35 Sounds like very loose valves,.... get them adjusted and let's see what's left... ... from your second post,... better pull that sidecase and check the camchain adjuster... coulld be about to pop out... ...also,.. while you were in the carb... did you clean the slide and make sure it moved smoothly?... |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/17/11 at 15:14:29 Ive never really done valved before, correctly. Just put it to TDC 1/2 turn after compression stroke, pop off the valve covers, and adjust them so it will fit a 0.005 but not a 0.008? |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/17/11 at 15:14:51 Ive already done the Verslavy mod |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by Serowbot on 04/17/11 at 15:18:41 How To: Adjust your Valves (http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1255580802) ... just thought of something else... check the de-comp solenoid adjustment... just make sure the cable has a little wiggle... too tight it could hold the exhaust valve slightly open... |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by verslagen1 on 04/17/11 at 16:28:30 I like .005" cause the feeler gauge seems to give less trouble, but .004 is better. If that don't take it out, the you might have stuck rings. check your compression. I had one with a burnt piston, it ran with a heavy knock or tick. But it could be the wrist pin, it was heavily galled too. BTW, this is the problem of starting a new thread, very few people will remember what was done, so you got to repeat yourself. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/17/11 at 16:41:12 When I first assembled the engine I had 150 PSI, then when I got it running it was down to 120. I was told this is because I may not have scattered the rings. I will take the head off and check, then do the valves. do I just look for play around the piston? |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by verslagen1 on 04/17/11 at 16:56:59 I tried to see it many ways, but when I got the head off it was obvious, little melt down on the edge of the piston. So I stopped trying to see alternate ways. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/17/11 at 17:05:51 Remember when I said when I turn the key on, the plug wire has a very fast, constant arc going to the engine block? You told me my coil or stator was shorting out somewhere. I never looked into it, could that be why its running sloppy? |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by verslagen1 on 04/17/11 at 17:55:31 yes |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/17/11 at 21:06:47 so just check throughout the wiring and try and find something odd, like a bare wire or something? |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by verslagen1 on 04/17/11 at 21:39:28 You might have to take every thing loose, if the short were real bad, I think it would've burned out the coil already. becare with the cdi too, real expensive. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/17/11 at 21:49:47 if Im going to bob it Id be doing a lot of snipping of wires anyway. Im willing to bet thats why its running so crappy. improper spark causing it to backfire. carbs clean as a whistle. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/19/11 at 09:17:22 Glad I pulled her apart. head bolts were finger tight O_O!!!! So far, not really any play in the piston. I cant seem to find much damage or where anywhere, unless you guys care to differ. Some internals for the bi-curious. http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9195/sany2402c.jpg http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1886/sany2399.jpg http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/964/sany2394.jpg http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/9274/sany2393.jpg http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5056/sany2387y.jpg http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/334/sany2385.jpg |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/19/11 at 09:39:40 Pretty interesting divot in that piston.. Finger tight, ehh? How many miles on it again? I pose I otta at least check a few while Im in there.. IF theyre outta whack, Ill pull the plug & get them all.. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by bill67 on 04/19/11 at 09:44:38 Sea Foam in the gas and oil help to prevent the engine for getting dirty. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by Oldfeller on 04/19/11 at 09:56:29 Rings show signs of active blow past -- I see original honing marks on the cylinder so you need to measure the piston skirt clearance and the ring zone clearance to make sure you have "in spec" clearances. Skirt .0015" to .0025" is spec good, we have seen motors that ran OK with up to .0045" at the skirt (high mileage engines almost to the point of piston slap). The upper ring area starts at around .005" clearance and it is common for carbon to build up in this area on the piston and on the cylinder wall, actually reducing this number to whatever that particular engine needs. If you clean up all the carbon deposits in the ring area you can expect have some oil use, etc. during break in until the carbon builds back up. YOU MUST RE-HONE THE BORE TO ALLOW THE RINGS TO SEAT, failure to do so will make a skeeter fogger. I'd carefully clean the rings and check them carefully for any scratches and if they are immaculate I'd put them back into a coarsely honed bore and allow them to seat in the hone marks -- as long as there are no scratches the rings will seat OK in a fresh set of coarse hone marks. Most would simply replace the rings and rehone (which is best if you are bucks up on the deal). This engine wasn't run long, it wasn't broken in right and somebody with insufficent knowledge worked on it before you went in there .... (likely the young trainee kid at some stealership) Somebody removed a base gasket or ran the engine with something that removed a bunch of barrel stack height, that is the only way a stock piston can touch the valves. Check your pieces for removal of material from the top or the bottom of the barrel -- someone may have tried to increase the compression ratio by cutting the barrel. If they did, you will have a slack cam chain with very little original wear before requiring a Slavy or a stick. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/19/11 at 10:12:14 IDK what a set of rings costs, but Id be doing my best to put new ones in there.. going back in to solve a problem later just doesn't seem like a reasonable gamble against the price of set of rings, they cant cost That much.. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 04/19/11 at 13:08:46 Cylinders at the mechanic being honed. Rings and gaskets on their way. see ya guys in a week or so! |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 05/02/11 at 12:28:43 Listened to you guys. While I was waiting for the parts, did some sandblasting and high temp painting. Gunna spend some time to make sure I get ALL the sand out of the valves/rockers now :( http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6149/sany2450.jpg http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/5060/sany2449.jpg |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/02/11 at 14:55:52 Gunna spend some time to make sure I get ALL the sand out of the valves/rockers now Id call that a very wise decision. Flush it out with a cheap brake cleaner, dont waste the $$ on Berrymans for washing sand out.. ,, stay where th air is moving, |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by Boofer on 05/02/11 at 17:10:05 Those pics are a good example for running name brand gas, keeping oil changed, and using an additive ocassionally (Optional). I haven't been inside mine yet, but my car engines are clean as can be when I get inside. Others may disagree, but that engine shouldn't be that carbonzxed imo. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 05/02/11 at 17:14:21 627D7B7C61665767576F7D713A080 wrote:
Fresh paint! Im just gunna keep hitting it with the air, making sure I get most of everything. been hitting it with some mineral spirits as well. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by BurnPgh on 05/02/11 at 21:16:49 divots in the piston are telling me you may have bent a valve. flip the head over and fill the chamber with water/solvent. If it leaks get them valves out and see if they're bent at all. If they're not bent but the chamber still wont hold liquid have a look in the tech section for stimpy's how to on valve lapping or have a machine shop look into cutting the valve seats. You cannot cut the valve faces. If you get the valve seats cut and it still wont hold liquid you need new valves. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by verslagen1 on 05/02/11 at 22:17:05 One other thing could've caused the ding in the piston. A sticky valve. |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 05/03/11 at 10:27:35 I soaked the valves in some CLR overnight just to get rid of some of that buildup everywhere, and It held some of the liquid. you can see it leaked out both the intake and exhaust holes. Ill do it again with a 1 hour test. http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3938/sany2455.jpg |
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Title: Re: Engine Knock, Tick, and backfire? Post by sillydilly on 05/03/11 at 11:30:06 so far nothing else seems to have seeped through. and if it has, it takes a long time. |
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