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Message started by greenmonster on 04/15/11 at 10:26:28

Title: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by greenmonster on 04/15/11 at 10:26:28

Hello folks,

So I'm thinking about a new addition to the family and there is a shiny s50 winking at me from across the way. Anybody have any thoughts on the big brother of our ride?

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 04/15/11 at 10:36:08

Ironic - I've had similar thoughts. Hope someone who knows replies.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by ALfromN.H. on 04/15/11 at 10:39:50

I thought about an S50 but I got a good deal on a C50 so I went with that. Big change from the S40 but I like it. Still keeping the thumper though.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by manitoulinbob on 04/19/11 at 17:42:34

i too am curious. i like the feel of the S50 when i have sat on it. bigger bike but still feels very light. i have to say though that i do like the belt drive of the S40 vs the shaft drive of the bigger brother. i have been looking at used S50's this spring but have yet to take the plunge. would be nice to get the chance to ride one.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by buttgoat1 on 04/20/11 at 09:12:54

LostArtist has a S50, I think.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by piglt on 04/21/11 at 07:54:27

I LOVE MY S50. got the S40 and S50 sitting side by side in my garage. Everyone I know who has one has nothing but good to say about them ;D

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by PerrydaSavage on 04/21/11 at 08:56:50

Might as well throw in my $0.02 ... I briefly owned a 2006 S50 from Oct. '07 to Jun. '08 ... bought it 'cause a co-worker was selling it for an unbelieveably good price ... and I thought it'd be a good opportunity to try a Bike similar, but bigger than my then current '03 LS650 ... so I sold the Savage and bought the S50. First off, I will say that the VS800 is a fine motorcycle ... relatively lightweight, FAST ... and of course dead reliable ... but, it didn't take me long to realize that it is (to me anyways) a Bike totally lacking in "character" ... something which the Savage/S40 has in spades! I ended up regretting selling my original Savage and missing her so much that I eventually sold the Intruder and bought another LS; an '05 S40 :) 8-)

Oh ... also, the person who designed the battery compartment for the VS800 Intruder/S50 deserves a serious beating ...

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by piglt on 04/21/11 at 10:45:13

In defense of the battery on the S50, pain to get the battery out, but no disassembley of the bike to connect to the battery tender. The terminals are in plain view and very easy to hook up. No pigtails needed ;D

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by bill67 on 04/21/11 at 11:59:23

Piglt you mean you can't see the battery water level on your S40 with out taking the battery out.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by LostArtist on 04/21/11 at 12:27:38

wonder if I can find my old posts about this bike . . . . there have been a few.

The S-50 and S-40 from a riders perspective, feel more or less the same, the S-50 will go faster but will vibe just as much as the S-40 at those higher speeds so not as comfortable, but really, from the S-40 to the S-50, not a whole lot will change from your riding experience, they both handle the same, yes the S-50 has 150 extra cc's but it also has an additional 100 lbs so, not like a blow out of performance there. The S-50 is fine up to like 70-75 mph when the vibes start creeping in, but I also need to get mine tuned so maybe it's just mine that's like that.

I disagree about the character, I think the S-50 is great the way it is character wise, it is not a good customizer though, it doesn't make a great bobber or cafe racer. it is exactly what it is if you don't like, not much you can do to change it. it doesn't make a bad chopper though with the long front end.

self maintenance:
beyond fluid changes and the battery(which isn't that bad, it's two bolts, but it is on the bottom of the bike so if you have bad knees that might suck the once a year you need to look at it, I still haven't looked at mine yet) The valves are very difficult to get to, you have to almost disassemble the top of the bike, gas tank comes of, and the carbs come off too, the gas tank is easy to get off though. and there are two carbs and two air filters on the bike so that adds to maintenance too. the bottom air filter I've heard is hard, but I haven't had too much problems. but when you get any bigger bike, there will probably be more maintenance to it, unless you get a fuel injected bike with hydraulic valves (Buell xb9s for me)

tires are the same as the S-40. Rides the same, little heavier so not quite as affected by roadway imperfections.

The S-50 is really fun though, not too heavy for parking lots but not a good touring bike, you can if you want get luggage and stuff to tour with it, the saddle bags by themselves, don't hold much though, so if you like long distance touring with tents and stuff, you're going to have to get some other kinds of luggage and what not, the gas tank is 3.2 gals or something so just a bit bigger than the S-40 but it gets 50 mpg not 60 mpg like the S-40 so there's a loss there.

I'd totally recommend the S-50 if you love the S-40 nothing is going to replace it, but if you want something almost just like it with a bit more oomph or if your S-40 is having problems or got wrecked or something and you wanted the same experience riding the S-50 is perfect as long as you're okay with the challenging self maintenance, it gets you into the V-twin club if you want to experience that for a bit as opposed to a thumper. but there are better bikes out there for that too. especially for any kind of touring. the seat is just like the s-40 too.

the more I have it the more I like it.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by jef.savage on 04/22/11 at 12:16:34

I have to agree with LostArtist that he must need a tune up, specifically a carb-sync because the S50 is a LOT faster than an S40. It's less than a 25% weight increase with a 66% hp increase (figured at 30hp vs 50hp). But I mention the carb sync because the S50 should not vibrate at speed. I have done plenty of cruising at 90mph on my S50 with no vibration problems. Also hit an indicated 112 mph with still no issues. And the bike still had something left.

The battery removal is not as easy as some other bikes but it's worth it to keep that much weight at the bottom of the bike. Most of the difficulties in working on the bike spring from its compactness. Lots of stuff is hard to get at because it's jammed into a small space. But the compactness is a large part of the bike's appeal.

I've seen great bobbers and customs built from VS800s the only limit is imagination (and $$$$). I think the popularity of the Savage as a bobber is largely due to its low cost.

The S50 is much more durable than the S40. There are lots of Intruders (Intruder is to S50/VS800 as Savage is to S40/LS650) out there with over 100,000 miles and still going strong.

I love my S50.

Just a note of interest - Suzuki lists the curb weights for the S40 and S50 as 381 and 478 while the C50 comes in at a whopping 611!! And that's not the touring model.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by mick on 04/22/11 at 13:02:00

192C3B3B302D281A283F282E2C490 wrote:

You still have the 250 ninja ,right ?

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by bill67 on 04/22/11 at 14:16:13

I had a 1990 VX 800 Suzuki,Lot more power and a smooth running engine,and a very stable motorcycle at all speeds, compared to a S40.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by PerrydaSavage on 04/23/11 at 01:28:48

Yes mick, I still have my current '07 EX250-H ... which has yet to see the Road this year due to combination of continuing cold/snowy weather up here ... and a kaput battery :(

Looking foward to trying the 'lil Ninja out though! 8-) Have to confess however that I deeply regret having sold my '05 S40 last spring, but in my defense, I wasn't exactly in a good "head space" last year when I made that decision ... ::)

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by Tincanman on 04/23/11 at 01:54:57

Get an S83!! [smiley=beer.gif][timestamp=1303548886]

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by LostArtist on 04/24/11 at 19:53:19

1924232E2C23202C234D0 wrote:

Get an S83!! [smiley=beer.gif][timestamp=1303548886]

yeah if you want something different but not really too different but gets you into a different performance range with the same ergos and just the beginning of big bike-ism at 550ish pounds the S-83 VS1400 is the way to go. that what I wanted when I got my S-50, couldn't find any with payments I was comfortable with so I got the S-50

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by jef.savage on 04/27/11 at 12:16:32

Here's mine:
http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y343/jefscoville/apr2011.jpg?t=1303931586
New this season are the sissy bar off my free parts bike which I recovered, Highway Hawk forward controls, relocated air horns to side of engine, and those long megaphones.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by prsavage on 04/28/11 at 11:17:34

I have an S50 (actually a 1997 VS800). I can honestly say in its stock form with the little buckhorn handle bars it is one of the most cramped and uncomfortable bikes I have ever been on. It seriously needs the aftermarket forward controls like in jef.savage's picture above. The buckhorn bars need to be changed for drag bars again see pic above. Currently I am looking for a better seat as the older ones like mine have a cramp inducing king-queen style that pushes the rider too far forward.

To recap: the seat pushes you forward, the foot controls force you to have your legs bent and feet back and the handle bars hold your hands too far inward with your elbows bent too much. You look like a chimpanzee riding a bike and will walk like one if you do a really long ride. And I am only 5'9"

And I seriously agree with PerryDaSavage that the battery compartment designer needs a beating. I do have bad knees and checking or changing the battery is brutal.

That said, I see the potential in the bike but it needs some serious additional investment to realize it and likely no return on resale.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by PerrydaSavage on 04/29/11 at 00:29:19

I would like to add that though the VS800 Intruder/S50 is generally a good motorcycle (that some folk actually love), for my money, a Sportster will give you a similar Bike with lots of "character" ... and the new Honda Shadow RS will give you a similar Bike with much better ergonomics.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by Red_Wine on 05/03/11 at 07:53:29

Hey jef.savage,

Could you ellaborate a bit on those air horns?? 8-) I just LOVE the idea of getting something like that on a Savage and blow it when the cagers cut me off... ;)

Thanks,

RW

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by WD on 05/04/11 at 05:52:59

Lisa's VS800 (1996 model) is without a doubt the most uncomfortable poorly designed lump of scrap metal to ever disgrace my yard. That said, once I swapped the shocks from my Savage onto it it behaved a lot better, and looked better. Smoother ride, better steering, no more dirt bike style rear fender gap.

Lisa is 5'6", so the 10" mini-apes she had me install in combination with the rear lowering is, in her words, absolutely perfect.

I'm 6'2" so if I ride her bike, my hands are on the bars, my feet are on the pegs, my butt is on the pillion.

If you want an 805cc that WON'T be handed it's butt by a Savage, get a clean used VN800A Kawasaki. Speedo stops at 140, my 99 I had for 18 months or so I broke one speedo head and one speedo drive, estimated ground speed 150 mph... VN800B is a waste of money though.

Whoever designed the early Shadow (which spawned the VN700/750, VS700/750/800/1400) is who needs to be taken out and shot. Pull the engine to properly service the valve train and carbs... >:(

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by LostArtist on 05/04/11 at 10:48:26

5043070 wrote:

???? why are you pulling the motor to service the carbs? I'm confused.

I agree the shocks do kinda suck, but not any worse than the S-40's shocks.

idk, I'm on the other end from you, I'm 5'1" and the S-50 suits me great. all the Kawasaki cruisers have forward pegs that make it a reach for me and I love the skinny cruiser kind of bikes like the Sportster and S-40 and S-50

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by jef.savage on 05/04/11 at 22:17:20

Vulcan 800 Drifter 1/02 108
Vulcan 900 Custom 2/07 105
Vulcan 1500 Drifter 7/00 99
Vulcan 1500 Classic ’96 8/96 100
Vulcan 1500 Classic FI 8/00 107
Vulcan 1500 Nomad 3/99 93
Vulcan Mean Streak 10/01 120
Vulcan 1600 Classic 7/03 110
Vulcan 2000 4/04 134

Here are the top speeds listed for every Vulcan tested by MC Conxumer News, along with the date of publication. But yours went 150? Sorry, I'm not buying it.

Also all of the bikes listed ran through the 1/4 mile in the 14's except the Meanstreak and 2000. The S50's published top end of 112 is in the same ball park as the 800 and 900 but it seems to be geared for acceleration rather than top end and weighs considerably less than any of these so it get's through a 1/4 mile in 13.3.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by jef.savage on 05/04/11 at 22:19:20

0136370C043A3D36530 wrote:

Hey jef.savage,

Could you ellaborate a bit on those air horns?? 8-) I just LOVE the idea of getting something like that on a Savage and blow it when the cagers cut me off... ;)

Thanks,

RW

Wolo Airsplitters. Very cheap on E-bay.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by Red_Wine on 05/05/11 at 15:31:27

Thank you.

Now, could you ellaborate on installation?? ;)

RW

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by jef.savage on 05/05/11 at 19:32:17

1126271C142A2D26430 wrote:

Thank you.

Now, could you ellaborate on installation?? ;)

RW

S50 has a fake air cleaner that holds the tool kit. I removed it and bolted one horn to each of the top two holes. I used a longer than normal bolt with two nuts. Put the bolt in the hole a bit and tightened down the inner nut. Slipped the horn over the end of the bolt and tightened the outer nut against the horn to hold it in place. For the compressor I used a right angle bracket. I rounded off the end and drilled one hole out a bit so I could bolt it into the bottom hole from the tool kit holder. I bent the outer end of the bracket in so it forms a small U and bolted the compressor to that. I extended the stock horn wires to the compressor.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by WD on 05/05/11 at 22:12:45

Sprocket swap, intake and air cleaner swap, port matched, hot cams, EPA crap deleted. Free breathing exhaust. Tires at max listed inflation.

Used to run it all the time with friends who ran Ducati Monsters, R1s, CBR1100RRs, real Ninjas (1000cc and up). Chindii (Evil Spirit) would run with them all day long on the slab at 120+mph without breaking a sweat.

Even my antique HDs were built to run 100+ all day long.

It's all about who you get to do your engine and how you have them set it up.

My VN800B (Classic) was stone stock, would easily run up to 110 indicated. Didn't handle worth a darn, but it could accelerate like nobody's business and maintain the speed until the tank went dry.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by WD on 05/05/11 at 22:52:04

I wear a 4XL glove, I can't get my hands anywhere near the rear carb on an Intruder. 800 Marauder or the c series they got smart, center mount fuel delivery, at the expense of a few ponies.

Luckily I haven't had to do much to Lisa's bike other than oil filters and air filters. Should tear the shaft down for a relube one of these days, it has never been off, but the cush drive leaks so much oil I may not have to worry about it. That was a bad idea when BMW came out with it in the 20s.

I'm still trying to figure out how to best put a 6" longer than stock round frame backbone into my Savage. Not as cramped as the 800 but could stand to be a bit longer for comfort. And easier oversized tank install. 2.5 gallon tank just isn't enough.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by Red_Wine on 05/06/11 at 05:41:31

Thank you jef.savage.

I understand you horn setting better now.

Best,

RW

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by LostArtist on 05/06/11 at 11:03:24

so if you're not a giant, I think the S-50 is a fine bike, not sure how WD fits better on a S-40 than an S-50, to me they feel the same ergonomically with the S-50's straight bars not the Intruders weird buckhorn bars, I've heard those did change things.

what's a cush drive?

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by LostArtist on 05/06/11 at 11:24:32

WD,

reading your other post in the other thread about apes, I now understand you have a very very customized to size Savage.

and I totally understand your frustration at the double carb set up on the S-50/intruder.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by WD on 05/06/11 at 16:00:52

Cush is short for cushioned drive, the "differential" if you will on shaft drive bikes. They work fine unless you have a leaker, when they run out of oil they tend to lock up. My 51 BMW locked its drive up at 50 mph, shaft broke, drive unit shattered, rear of transmission explode, which tore the frame in half. Not much a concern with newer bikes, much better metallurgy.

Lisa's bike runs a couple ounces of white lithium marine grade grease along with the gear oil. Much smoother, but not great for seals. Since her's has leaked since day one it shouldn't be a problem.

LA, some here over the years have thought I'm kinda strange, my first motorcycle was a 1936 HD Knucklehead chopper with apes and a foot clutch handshift (stock). And I always build my bikes for max performance, I had a 45 cubic inch (750cc) flathead Indian (Scout) that could just touch mid-90s mph. My Scout Jr (30.50 cubic inches) could just touch 60 mph.

My Savage isn't THAT modded, high bars, cut down seat, taller shocks, thicker fork oil. The rest is just cosmetic (fender, gas tank, exhaust) or mild hop-up stuff (airbox mods, exhaust mods, rejetted, full tire pressure). Haven't touched the frame yet. ;)

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by WD on 05/10/11 at 15:53:29

http://ravenscroftart.net/watchtower/LoweredIntruder.jpg

Rear shot of Lisa's bike with the stock shocks from my LS650. Drops the rear a good 4 inches. A bit more user friendly for the inseam challenged. I got tired of her boot tearing up the passenger seat/backrest covers... My Savage needed more ground clearance...

It is a two person swap if you want to lower one. Intruder has a very heavy back end compared to a Savage.

Take speed bumps slow or battery box will drag.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by mick on 05/10/11 at 17:09:03

794C5B5B504D487A485F484E4C290 wrote:

don't you have a battery tender ? Once you get out on that ninja you think you have died and gone to heaven.Expect great things.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by WD on 05/10/11 at 20:06:33

No kidding, the 250 "Ninjette" is one heck of a nice handling machine. With the right sized rider they can give the litre bikes a good run in the twisties. The 250 is better balanced.

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by PerrydaSavage on 05/11/11 at 11:08:06

Hope no one thinks that I am hijacking this Topic ... but have resolved the battery issues with my '07 EX250-H and have been out for a few scoots the past few weeks when the cold, wet Spring we're having relinquishes for the occassional hour or so! Yes mick my friend, I do have a Tender, but the batt that came with the Bike was toast ... and the brandy-new replacement was a dud also! :o ... brought that back, got another and Bike fired right up ... after I cleaned the plugs that had fouled from the previous attempts at starting! LOL!! Anyhoo, the wee pre-gen Ninjette is a fun Ride ... but my wrists, elbows and lower back are telling me that I may have to go back to another LS650 eventually ...
WD ... it sure is great to see you back on the Forms again pal! I think of you every time I wear my "Bent Bike" t-shirt! How're things since you moved from the Left Coast?

Back on topic ... the VS800/S50/Intruder could be a great Bike if only it did not have some of those "design quirks" that were engineered (and I use that word loosely) into it ... and if it had a more Sportster-like character similar to the LS650 ...

Title: Re: S50 any thoughts welcome
Post by WD on 05/11/11 at 19:29:12

Better by a long shot. I'm actually motivated to finish restomodding the Savage. And the color matched 72 Super Beetle is still here. So Pokey, Pukey (the Bug makes people gag, Kubota type 2 orange) and my 49 Dodge truck will be triplets. Cub Cadet Beige and pumpkin orange (aka Kubota orange, type 1, not as retina burning).

And I'm back in a civilized part of the country.