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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Advice re: part out / repair /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1301323073 Message started by Freddie on 03/28/11 at 07:37:53 |
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Title: Advice re: part out / repair Post by Freddie on 03/28/11 at 07:37:53 I have a 2001 Savage, approx 18K. I just got a quote of $900+ to repair the engine: cam, valves, chain; I provided the shop with the modified cam adjuster. I have serious reservations about paying that as I have had two other costly repairs on the engine. Most of the riding of this bike has been backroads, not pushing it to any limits. A few times, I have had to travel the interstates but typically no longer than 30 miles at a stretch. If the bike was stopped for any length of time, it did not idle, it was turned off to avoid overheating. The mechanic said these engines require regular top end rebuilds at similar intervals. I have reservations about repairing and am considering parting it out. I have noticed that some of the posters seem to have good use from their bikes but this engine seems not to be of similar quality. I am neither mechanically inclined nor have a garage in which to work; however, I am looking to those of you with more experience with Suzukis for your comments either way. At the present time, I'm leaning toward parting it out unless my wife and son convince me otherwise. Do not be concerned about offending me with any suggestions. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by splash07 on 03/28/11 at 08:29:34 I would say do NOT part it out. First, do you like to ride motorcycles? Second, if yes, do you like riding this motorcycle? Third, how mechanically inclined do you want to be? My point is that if you have the motivation to become mechanically inclined there is no better platform to learn on than the savage. The repairs you describe can be done by you for a fraction of the cost that a repair shop will charge. And I am living proof that you don't even need a garage. I rebuilt my savage the first time in my living room using nothing but hand tools and a clymer manual. the fact is that if you part it out you will still end up shelling out a good bit of money to replace it with a working bike. So my vote is to keep it and shell out the $25 bucks for the shop manual and start the learning process, besides you already have one of the most valuable resources available to a savage rider....this site. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/11 at 09:02:03 What were your other repairs at what mileage and costs? Being that I wrench on my own bike, I know the noises that she makes and why. When to worry and when not to. The savage is my 1st m/c and after 5 years I know it reasonably well. Previous experience was HS shop and a vw van. Which I burnt up once and dropped the engine many times to fix one thing or another. Since engines now have more things hanging off them then in them they have gone beyond my scope of interest. So I understand not wanting to wrench on it nor having the space to do so. I have said that I've 2 savages both over 40k, with not much more work than putting in verslavies. So as far as whether the bike is capable or not is self evident. But I also reallize there are lemons and things happen. For you to need 3 major repairs in 20k is indicative of a problem. Maybe the same problem that we've heard before, greedy mechanics. Maybe not. So let us know, what your repairs were and why. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by Serowbot on 03/28/11 at 09:14:10 An 01' with 16k miles... I'd say is worth $1000 to $1200 dollars. I wouldn't put $900 in it. I'd put an ad on Craigslist and try to sell it to a guy that likes to wrench. Non-running, I'd try for $400 OBO... Put what money you get towards another ride. Parting out a bike, will take nearly as much wrenching as fixing it,... maybe more. PS... Did you do regular oil changes?... Also,... Where are you located?.. Someone on the forum might be close, and interested in a purchase, or wrenching for you? |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by Freddie on 03/28/11 at 15:40:09 Thanks for the comments. I elected not to put the $900 in it. I can not find my receipts for the previous work and at nearly 60 y.o. I prefer not to rely on my memory for specifics. Also, after speaking with a fellow who seems to knowledgeable about the bike, it appears that I may be an exception to the adage, "You get what you paid for." I consulted with my wife and son and we all recall that the mechanics went into the head and accessed the cylinder area; once again the actual repairs can not be documented. We are relying on the comments from the mechanics. Today, I walked into the shop that did the last work and spoke to the mechanics. I realize that I violated several rules about patrons being in the work area but my walk about was most enlightening. I believe some of the less than positive comments that I have heard about dealership mechanics have a strong foundation, or at least from my observations. At the request of my son, I have delayed parting the bike out. I have found an independent mechanic who plans to do some review and cost analysis. I spent over an hour talking with him. One possibility he mentioned was to explore the availability of a used engine if the work needed on the current engine would be excessive. My son seems to have a special connection with this bike since it was "his first bike." So, as it stands now, I shall await the feedback from the independent fellow, keep reviewing all the wealth of information on this site, and explore the availablily of a used engine. Now, does anyone with experience care to provide me with guidance on that topic? |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by BurnPgh on 03/28/11 at 16:22:40 depending on whats wrong with it that great majority of that $900 quote is labor to take it apart and put it back together. If you need new valves (and seats cut), new springs, new piston(fancy schmancy hi-comp wiseco, not a cheaper OEM), new rings, a bore/hone and a new cam chain and guides you're looking at about (doing math) about $450-500. Half what you were quoted. Spend the $35 on a clymers manual, refer your son here if need be and let him grab some wrenches and begin the disassembly process. Take the bits to the indy mechanic and let him do the actual work, them bring it home and put it back together. S'what I did. PS - the $500 geuss is including what I paid for labor i couldnt do. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by Oldfeller on 03/28/11 at 16:43:13 Freddy old boy, 2-3 top end "failures" on a Savage is not unheard of -- on a bike with over 50,000 miles on it that is. The first failure on the real world example was mileage pure and simple, the last two were due to errors in repair work on the original failure. Something is up with your bike and/or your repair persons. Somebody either screwed up a previous repair job causing you to have low oil pressure to the head OR they are lying to you now, trusting that you will give them a bunch more money to do pretty much nothing. You haven't told us squat about what's wrong with the bike now, what symptoms it exhibited or anything of substance about it. What exactly is wrong with the bike now. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/11 at 16:47:28 agree with burn I do but let's go into it a little further... Quote:
I'm guessin' at all the prices, haven't looked at them in quite a while. You shouldn't need a cam unless they screwed up last time and plugged your oil port to the head. (250?) Valves should also be ok. Chain, yep if you're not doing the verslavy (which you had) you'd replace the chain and guides. think it's 90 + 60 + 50, plus gaskets(20). Someone who knows how, can have it on the bench in many pieces in 2 hrs. (90 per hr?) Send the head out (100 maybe 100 for parts) At 20k piston may be loose but ok to go further. replace head and base gasket (40?) that adds up to 900 and I didn't even put it back together, about 3 hrs. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by Freddie on 03/28/11 at 18:40:30 The reason for taking into the shop: Intermittent power loss and an intermittent deep sound that seemed to have been coming from the engine. I've tried to describe it to others and done a poor job so will not attempt to do so here. The intermittent sound was one that I had not heard before and was at a volume that caused me concern. Since there was an accompanying interrmittent power loss, I felt it should be checked; ideally, reduce the potential for damage. I realize for you that have good mechanical skills, these comments provides little insight but hope that it will provide some understanding. I added to my other post on this site some observations that has led me to believe that I did not get what I paid for. I have also heard comments from others -- regretfull;y now and not before I paid for repairs -- that the quality of the workmanship from the two shops is questionable. I can not believe all the collective experiences and knowledge on this web site. So thanks for the input. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by verslagen1 on 03/28/11 at 20:45:14 0A2921122C3F2437217072450 wrote:
Now you've whetted my appetite... Intermittent power loss-like a bucking bronc, or twist the throttle and nothing? Or going along at speed and suddenly cut out? intermittent deep sound like a wood pecker or grinding like a chain across an aluminum pot? |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by Oldfeller on 03/29/11 at 07:29:22 Step 1 -- Run it in Prime at all times to take out all the "fuzzy" petcock symptoms. Raise your idle speed to at least 1,000 rpm at idle (this is the large knob type screw on the carb trottle cable half moon) Sounds like puttputtputtputtputtputtputtputt. If this changes the other symptoms, please tell us. Don't get frustrated, so far your explanations are just fine. Put it in prime, put gas in it every week and keep riding it and keep on talking to us. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/29/11 at 07:31:47 at 16,000 miles, Id have to have a look at that cam chain. & yes, put it on prime. Probably be a good idea to plug the vacuum line off at the carb, too. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by Oldfeller on 03/29/11 at 07:36:21 Justin, he said he paid the stealership to put in a new cam and a new cam chain already .... unless they simply didn't do it or did it incorrectly he should be good. But we shall see ..... let's take out all the fuzzy petcock symptoms so we can see more clearly and more quickly. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by Freddie on 03/29/11 at 10:24:53 Shall address the several points in this one post: Intermittent power loss: I would twist the throttle and it would lag, much as I do getting out of the bed in the morning. Given a little time, it would pick up but the power would drop off. I was hesitant to demand too much -- such as when you pull out of an intersection and see a car pop over the hill and have to move quickly -- as I did not want to do more damage. The deep sound would be similar to that of a loud muffler with some metal clanking -- now you see why I hesitated to describe it. I do occasionally run it in prime but have not considered full time. The petcock has about 5K on it. Unrelated question: I have always run premium level gas in it because I felt that with the small air cooled engine that would be more beneficial. Anyone run mid-grade or lower? Just wondering. As I have read over the various posts, I find myself becoming more reluctant to let it go. I started remembering some bikes that I have owned, sold out of financial necessity at the time, and now longing to have at least one or more of them back. Thanks again for the advice. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by verslagen1 on 03/29/11 at 11:31:43 6E4D4576485B4053451416210 wrote:
I believe this is a sticky slide in the carb, add some seafoam to the tank to see if it goes away. Quote:
Any tapping around the oil filter? I've never heard what the plunger sounds like when it falls out, but that may be it. Or bits of the guide getting lodged somewhere. Quote:
Most run regular, some do run premium. The engine has low compression and regular is supposed to run best. Someday I'll have to try it on a particularly hot day. Thanks for going over this with us however painful it might be for you. I've learnt loads from all the problems we have, minor or major. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by Freddie on 05/14/11 at 15:42:06 Update: Just got the 2001 Savage back two days ago from an independent mechanic who came highly recommended. Repairs were about $300 less than the quote from the dealership. Seems that there was some misdiagnosis by the dealership mechanics. Parts this time: cam and chain, rocker arm, and, of course gasket. I sincerely hope that this will solve the issues. As I visited the shop to check on the progress, it was interesting to see the other bikes that were brought to him that had previously been in dealership garages: partially disassembled and parts in boxes accpompanied by less than pleasant stories. Seems I am not the only one with, as a friend of mine says, "a war story." |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by BurnPgh on 05/14/11 at 17:24:19 did he tell you why you need a cam, chain and rocker arm? Did he provide you with your old parts? im still suspect that the underlying problem has been fixed. Sure the damage may be fixed, but what the hell caused it? the only incidents of damaged cams and rocker arms have been caused by oil starvation. Have you, a shop, or a previous owner done anything to the clutch taht you know of? Hate to be paranoid but I wouldnt start riding it just yet. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by verslagen1 on 05/14/11 at 18:00:08 Great freddie, anytime a mechanic goes into the top end it will be about $500 or more. I think that mechanic is a keeper. If the cam and rocker where worn out, most likely oil starvation. A few ways for this to happen. not enough oil in the case. I've found mine down a qt. from time to time and after 40k miles no appreciable wear. So you'd have to run it dry to get damage that way. putting the oil pump drive gear on backwards and loosing all pressure when the gear disconnects from the clutch. and obstructions in the oil path. just as excessive rtv in the head cover. If you get the parts back from the mechanic, take pictures and post. Also, we can use the cam as a core to get it reprofiled. |
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Title: Re: Advice part out / repair Post by Freddie on 05/15/11 at 07:14:22 He installed the Verslavy tensioner and was most impressed by the design. One aspect I liked about this mechanic is that he took the old parts, laid them out and explained why he replaced certain parts. He even added a demonstration of how the Verslavy tensioner worked benefitted the engine. Since he was taking his time, I did not interrupt him to say that a friend had already gone into a similar detailed explanation that convinced me to order one. I was so appreciative by his personal service and attention to detail that I just enjoyed the explanation. |
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