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Message started by IN-S40 on 03/22/11 at 07:45:30

Title: Replacing valve seals?
Post by IN-S40 on 03/22/11 at 07:45:30

Late last year I asked about my bike smoking at startup, after it warms up its fine, no smoke. Pretty much everyone said its probably the valve seals. Call me a bit OCD but I dont like it smoking, at all...
So... how hard of a job is it to replace the seals? I understand i would need a valve spring compressor to get the springs off but is there anyt other tools needed to actually remove the seals? I'm pretty mechanicly inclined, just need alittle feedback before I dig in...

Darren
IN-S40

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Oldfeller on 03/23/11 at 06:12:51

Full head teardown, special valve compressor tool is needed.

I'd wait until you had another reason to do a teardown -- and mind you another point -- I am not sure your smoking jest comes from just the drip or two from the valve stem. Excess piston clearance seems to crop up around here with enough miles on the odo ....

It is a minor annoyance, wait until a more serious problem occurs

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by IN-S40 on 03/23/11 at 08:31:16

Its an 05 with 4600 miles.. and smokes pretty heavy at startup.

Darren

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Boofer on 03/23/11 at 21:10:07

Big job, but if you can't stand it dive in. However, that may not be the trouble. However again, ;D you will get to know a lot about your bike. I'm like most on here, but I'm disabled and plan on sitting my bike on my picnic table when I get that deep inside. I would never discourage someone from doing a hobby they love. Good luck.

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Oldfeller on 03/24/11 at 02:27:38

Some facts for consideration - an '05 with less than 5,000 miles is still a virgin around here.

There has been insufficient time and way too few (by a factor of 10) miles for seals to deteriorate, or rings to wear, etc etc.

I would consider questioning your initial ring break in as done by the previous owner. Run the piss out of it using a 10w40 oil and see if the problem doesn't go away as things finally break in.

What weight and brand of oil are you currently using? What oil did the previous owner use?

Betcha we got us another improperly broken in bike showing oddities again ....

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Routy on 03/24/11 at 03:47:30

Betcha we got us another improperly broken in bike showing oddities again ....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If so, maybe not all bad :o

It has been said,....that any engine that uses some oil right from the get go, will last forver.......?? :-/

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by IN-S40 on 03/24/11 at 04:47:45

I'm pretty sure at the last change I put in Castrol 4T 10w-40. My girlfriend has a 03 with 3500 on it and not an ounce of smoke out of it at all. It smokes the worst at the first start of the day but still smokes quite a bit on previous starts during the day. :( I'll try to do a youtube video tonight when i'm back in town.

Darren
IN-S40

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Trippah on 03/24/11 at 17:59:56

Isn't that smoking first thing then cleaning up the classic description of oil seeping past rings, which makes oldfellows comment seem right on.

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Oldfeller on 03/24/11 at 19:24:35

Now this situation REALLY calls for Mr. Bill's Klotz synthetic oil -- originally developed as a smoke free synthetic two stroke oil, Klotz will drip, burn and NOT SMOKE you up while doing it .....

or so sez Bill, our resident Klotz expert

;D

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Routy on 03/24/11 at 21:11:33

Doesn't this defy the laws of gravity ?

7C5A4158584940280 wrote:

Isn't that smoking first thing then cleaning up the classic description of oil seeping past rings, which makes oldfellows comment seem right on.

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by verslagen1 on 03/24/11 at 21:40:26

Well when we lit up the rex the bug destroyer a couple of summers ago, it smoked up the whole woods. Them little hats do work and when you ain't got'm everyone downwind knows it. This is cause the valve guides sit in a pool of oil and it's quite a bit deeper on the kickstand.

If they have split or raised up off there guides then more oil can seep by them.

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by IN-S40 on 03/25/11 at 10:14:37

ok, if it is that the rings that are not broken in correctly is there a way to remedy that without an engine tear down?

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Boofer on 03/25/11 at 18:54:57

7D707D5A5F4C4C5B503E0 wrote:

S40, I think I found your problem. It will be easier to get a girlfriend who can ignore the smoke or if you really love her, slip a little chainsaw oil in her gas tank when she isn't looking. ;D

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by IN-S40 on 03/25/11 at 21:48:45

LOL!! hey thats a good idea!!! really the smoke is more of an anoyance when we go riding with our friends... i have the bug fogger.

I did find something tonight that i wonder if it has anything to do with the smoke possibly. I had the head cover off because I didnt get a good enough seal and still had a small leak. After torking it down I went to check the valve lash, never checked it before... there was NO cleareance, none nada at all so I set them at 0.10 mid point acording to the service manual specs. Wonder if that was causing a problem?

Darren

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by BurnPgh on 03/26/11 at 00:23:48

you have the piston at TDC compression before you set them? You wouldnt be the first to get compression and exhaust mixed up. and you set them at .1 what? Also no, that wouldnt explain the smoke.

If it's the ring you might might might be able to run the hell out of it like oldfeller suggested.
I had the same deal going on before i got a bore job and it got really bad toward the end. Id start up to go home from work and get a big oily cloud. Id take it up to about 2k rpm almost immediately and keep it there until the smoke stopped. Took about 10 seconds. If i just let it idle it'd billow smoke for 3-4 minutes.

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by IN-S40 on 03/26/11 at 00:36:29

yup to TDC, and the service manual says .08 - .13mm for valve clearence

I didnt figure it would cause the smoke but thought i'd throw it out there...

Darren

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Boofer on 03/26/11 at 11:56:22

Grew up helping my uncle repair boat motors. Some sat for long periods without any use. There was a spray we put into the plug hole to free up stuck rings and/ or pistons. Worked after soaking an hour or so. Now that was long ago, so a good product with some real punch to it was probably outlawed.

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by IN-S40 on 03/26/11 at 18:51:28

Thanks for the tip Boofer, I have a West Marine store just down the road so i stoped in and picked up a can of Quicksilver Engine Power Tune. According to the can it disolves all gum varnish and carbon out of the combustion chamber. sprayed it in the plug hole while at TDC and it foams up to coat the cylinder. Fingers crossed it might work....
if not at least i should have a clean cylinder..lol

Darren

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Boofer on 03/27/11 at 16:44:44

Is it too late for a disclaimer? My lawyers are writing it right now. ;D

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by Russ130 on 03/27/11 at 18:17:54

Having the same problem myself. My bike only has a few miles over 4k on it. It is a 98 however so perhaps it sat and the seals got brittle. I put some sea foam in the crankcase to see if it would help free up the rings which I believe it did. Before it smoked constantly now only at start up so the rings are set but I believe the seals are shot. Better the seals than valve guides though. I am a mechanic so wrenching on it is no problem for me. I plan on doing a re-ring and valve seal job soon along with a verslagy cam chain tensioner. While the head is off I plan on getting the valves to seat perfectly if they aren't already and porting and polishing them a bit too. Nothing too radical just cleaning up the bowls and chamber of any casting marks and smoothing out the exhaust port.

Title: Re: Replacing valve seals?
Post by IN-S40 on 03/28/11 at 12:14:45

No disclaimer needed Boofer, I know there is rarely ever a "cure in a can" but it wasnt to pricey and if it works then great! I did pick up a set of valve seals just incase it comes to it but dont really want to pull the engine just for that....

Darren