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Message started by FrankYoungWolf on 02/03/11 at 07:36:28

Title: Is this too much?
Post by FrankYoungWolf on 02/03/11 at 07:36:28

I am looking at having my head gasket replaced, my front fork seals done, and also my shift rod replaced from where it broke in two. The guy said that while he was doing the head gasket he would do the rings and all that entails as well. The over all charge after parts and labor is around $785.00. Since I have no clue on any of this i thought i would ask my most esteemed elders and know it alls! thanx guys, ( and gals)

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by verslagen1 on 02/03/11 at 08:27:29

gasket set $90
ring set $30
shift rod $10
fork seals $50
fork oil $20
motor oil $20
filter $5
RTV $10

Known parts $235 large round numbers.
$550 labor resonable.

I assume he going to bore it, why not throw in a wiseco hi-comp piston kit? And a lancer cam?

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by FrankYoungWolf on 02/03/11 at 08:39:50

What exactly would that do?

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by verslagen1 on 02/03/11 at 08:57:20

aside from the shift rod...
why all the work?

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by MotoBuddha on 02/03/11 at 09:03:46

1521323D380A3C263D34043C3F35530 wrote:

It's not that hard to do yourself. I mean, I'm a half step up from being a Neanderthal and I can do it. The Clymer manual and the folks here can walk you through it.

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by FrankYoungWolf on 02/03/11 at 09:26:27

Well I have a lot of leakage from my front seals, and There is a lot of oil on the front part of my engine, Around the cooling fins (isn't that what those are?) so when i asked the locally owned non chain Motorcycle shop to look at it he is the one who told me thats what it needed., I would attempt this but honestly, I have no tools and I have no clue!

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by verslagen1 on 02/03/11 at 10:39:23

While you're not that far from the rings, I'd say leave them be.
Replace the head gasket, ok
Repace the head plug, ok, make sure he uses RTV on the plug.

How many miles?
If over 40k, then do the rings.

Head gasket leaks are seen under the head. Caused by not retorquing the head and can be slowed to a minimum if you retorque it. But won't get rid of it.

Head plug leaks are seen all over the top of the head and usually caused by not RTVing the head plug or age.

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by FrankYoungWolf on 02/03/11 at 11:23:12

Yea the bike only has like 8k miles on it I only paid like 800 bucks for it and I do Love it, some one was telling me that doing all this would be akin to having a new engine (maybe rebuilt?) but like I said, that is a lot of money, ( thank goodness for tax returns huh?) was wondering about the earlier post what exactly would be the benefit of boring it, and throwing in a wiseco hi-comp piston kit? And a lancer cam? like I said thats why I come on here to learn and share! Thanks for all the help?

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by verslagen1 on 02/03/11 at 11:40:15

well, at 8k I wouldn't do a rebore and piston rings unless you had a problem. I don't see that you do, normal leakage. Depending where you are at with the repair work, I'd get the shift rod fixed and let the rest go till you have a clear picture of what you need fixed. Head plug is understandable, head gasket, not so. clean it good, note where it's leaking, then fix it. as I said, head gaskets leaks under the head. so look close on the fin where those 2 nuts are from underneath. if that's wet up to the cylinder, then replace it. if it's just from the top, then head plug.

benefit of the wiseco hi-comp piston... a little extra power
same with the lancer cam resulting in a much bigger smile.
the con is a drop in mpg.

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by FrankYoungWolf on 02/03/11 at 11:44:00

Awesome! Thanx for the heads up, will reevaulate and see where to go from here. Thank you for the advice!

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by Oldfeller on 02/03/11 at 12:19:18

I'm with Verslagen -- your bike has a minor leak that so far has NEVER been the head gasket EVER.

If I was a betting man I'd be laying money on the plug over the stud nut that you can see by shining a flash light deep in beside the left of the exhaust pipe as you kneel down beside the bike. This leak is cosmetic and can be ignored for a bit until you get enough confidence to fix it yourself.

You can replace the shift rod yourself (just note which threads are LEFT HANDED and don't get yourself confused when picking which end goes where).

The rest of it was the mechanic trying to pick your pocket -- shameful what they do to people "helping them" ain't it?

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by bill67 on 02/03/11 at 13:24:17

People have to remember your motorcycle dealer isn't Good Will,their in business to make money like every other business

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/03/11 at 16:37:51

Id be afraid youd get a new rubber plug & a well cleaned engine for your $$$.

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by Trippah on 02/04/11 at 08:31:58

Since it is not a Suzi dealer, he may well NOT know about our head plug leak, leading him to believe that a ring job was possibly needed. (That is the beneefit of the doubt qualifier). Did he do a compression check?

The "lancer cam" certainly could be done while the top end is off for the plug replacement..it will give morelow and mid range boost at a slight loss of overall MPG.

Going to the the high compression piston will give a bit more get up and go at even more cost of MPG's, possibly reliablility and higher octane fuel. Like others before, unless you are going for rocket, I'd also recommend against the pistonat this point. If you are going for a rocket, I'd look into other bikes. As you apparantly don't do you own wrenching..the less modification the more riding you'll get to do. ::)

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by Oldfeller on 02/04/11 at 10:36:00

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/175x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_2529.jpg

This is a $10 Harbor Freight Compression Tester. I own one of them, so I can say it works pretty good, just be sure you get a 12mm adaptor with your unit as sometimes they have one and sometimes they don't.
vendor and packaging changes according to availability
(not complex, very simple to use).

Before I tell myself I have a problem, I personally check to see if I have the problem.

Cold cranking compression on a Savage has a very broad service range, from 145 psi to 203 psi.

Technically speaking, I am not remembering anyone who has had to replace any rings apart from a seizure event of some sort which was also perhaps an oil pressure loss event.

Our highest mileage pistons will eventually wear to the point you get noticeable piston slap or piston knock noise at idle and off idle while still running the bike OK compression wise.

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 02/05/11 at 09:00:00

Adding my two cents.
I'm not 100% sure the MC shop you took it had vast experience on the LS650 engine.

The std oil leak that gets oil over the fins is most likely the rubber plug in the head. It's the oil leak that all the older Savages get. Suzuki redesigned the plug to help reduce the leak. Like Oldfeller said, you can see the underside of the plug in the head cavity above the spot where the exhaust pipe is attached to the engine. The reason the plug is there is to cover the access hole to one of the nuts holding the head on.

The fix entails, removing seat & gas tank. Removing the head cover (note: there are no gaskets on the cover, only sealer). replacing the plug (remember to clean the opening to remove oil film - alcohol works for this), reapplying sealer, putting the cover on, and tank & seat. A person that worked on LS650 engines can do it in about 30 mins. Someone that is not familiar, maybe 2+ hours.

It may be a good idea to check the tightness (torque) of the head bolts while the head cover is off. That is one of the preventive maint. items.

Title: Re: Is this too much?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 02/05/11 at 09:32:10

Ive got 20,000 miles on mine, never touched a headbolt. I was gonna, when I did the camchain, but fergot & had the cover on,, wasnt takin it back off for that.