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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1295028793 Message started by logan31907 on 01/14/11 at 10:13:13 |
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Title: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/14/11 at 10:13:13 WTF?????..... I accidentally left the choke on and drove for about 5miles and the bike died on me again. I put the choke back, and it wouldn't start. So I put the fuel switch on the "prime" position and it started up. I drove a mile with it like that, then put the switch back to "on"....it then puttered and sounded like it was misfiring (I'd rev the throttle but it wouldn't rev like it was supposed to). Then it died. So I put the switch back to "prime" and it runs fine in that position. Its doing the same thing like before. What gives?????? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- RESOLVED final update: So I've never had to put gas in my bike ever since I got it. I ran it empty last nite and then filled up my tank with 93 octane just to see what would happen. I put the fuel switch back to the normal "on" position and it now runs great! I came to the conclusion that the previous owner must have put or left old gas in the tank. Thanks for everyones help! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OP: Hey all...I have to constantly put my bike on the trickle charge. I charged my battery completely last night and then when I was riding to work, it died on me. This has happened twice now. Is the problem the stator? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ UPDATE2: so I checked all the connections and used my multimeter to check it all out and everything came out good. I just replaced the battery with a Big Crank and started it up (I had to turn the fuel switch to the "prime" position to start). I warmed it up and put the fuel switch back to the normal "on" position and went for a test drive. After about a mile, it started to die again....just like it did before. I tried to restart it with no luck. I then put the fuel switch back to the "prime" position and the bike started up. I figure I'd leave the switch on "prime" and go for another test drive. This time, the bike had no trouble and didn't cut out and I went for a 45 minute ride around town. I'd figure the reason the battery kept draining was cuz I tried to start the motor too many times. So my questions.... 1. why is my bike running good on "prime" fuel position, but not on the normal "on" position? Note...when I got my bike about a month ago, the previous owner kept it on "prime". But when I was reading my manual a couple weeks ago, the normal position is "on" (pointing straight down), so I figure I'd put it back to "on". 2. Will this do any damage to my bike, leaving it on "prime"? 3. Does my carb need cleaning? Sorry for such a long read, I thought it would help if I explained everything. |
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Title: Re: could it be the stator? Post by verslagen1 on 01/14/11 at 10:36:21 You need to check your charging system. But right away, check the connectors on the rectifier. If they come loose it won't charge. |
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Title: Re: could it be the stator? Post by LWRider on 01/14/11 at 10:48:39 My manual says to warm the engine then shut it down. Check the continuity between each of the leads coming from the stator. You should have continuity between all of them. I discovered my faulty stator this way. Another component to check is the "signal generator" aka "pickup coil." Check the resitance between the leads coming from the signal generator; it should be between 200-240 ohms. If the resistance is less or there is no resistance; it is bad. Two simple and quick tests. |
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Title: Re: could it be the stator? Post by Yonuh Adisi FSO on 01/14/11 at 10:50:30 Yes, do as Verslagen suggested first. I had the same problem with the FireLizard once. I was sure my charging system had fried for some reason but when I took the seat off I found that the wires to the rectifier had come unplugged and once I plugged them back in, no more problem. |
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Title: Re: could it be the stator? Post by ebonysresearch on 01/16/11 at 07:10:05 You will also want to check each lead on the stator to ground. If its grounding its bad. IB insulation breakdown. |
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Title: Re: could it be the stator? - i dont think so?.... Post by logan31907 on 01/19/11 at 11:25:55 OP update bump ^^^ |
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Title: Re: could it be the stator? - i dont think so?.... Post by Bubba on 01/20/11 at 06:37:43 Logan, either rebuild the petcock, buy a new one for WAY too much money or swap it out with a raptor (straight swap). http://www.ronayers.com/Search/N/687/Criteria/5LP-24500-01-00&adv=5&kw... If you go the raptor route you will need to shut off the fuel every time you turn off the bike...old school, and block off the vac line on the carb. I went the raptor route...no problems so far... |
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Title: Re: could it be the stator? - i dont think so?.... Post by verslagen1 on 01/20/11 at 07:10:37 Replace your vac line 1st, and it helps to clamp the ends. What year is the bike? When I got mine, the vac line was original, I replace it every year or so since. |
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Title: Re: could it be the stator? - i dont think so?.... Post by logan31907 on 01/20/11 at 07:38:31 Cool. Thanks for aal the help. The bike is a 01 with 8600 miles. I'm gonna try the vac lines first.......... |
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Title: Re: RESOLVED! not the stator, its the fuel! Post by logan31907 on 01/20/11 at 10:56:34 ^Bump^ OP resolved update! ;D 8-) |
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Title: Re: RESOLVED! not the stator, its the fuel! Post by TheSnakeLady on 01/20/11 at 12:14:54 That happened to me too. Bike ran great when I got it, filled it up with 87 and kaput. It stalled and would not run unless the choke was all the way on. I freaked, it was the first time I'd gone out alone AND I was 10 to 15 miles from my house. Crap! Rode home with the choke on and throttle wide open! Tore the engine apart to see what happened and come to find out... it was the gas. Drained it, put 93 in and it ran perfect! My bike will NOT run on anything less than 91, too much ethanol in it. Lesson learned! |
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Title: Re: RESOLVED! not the stator, its the fuel! Post by james may on 01/20/11 at 14:33:52 hmm that's weird I tried running 93 octane in my bike a few times, it seemed to backfire alittle more and have every so slightly less power, with 87 it runs better for me. Must be the tuning or the timing on your bikes. Or they could be crudded up in the combustion chamber, maybe try running some seafoam in there to get rid of carbon deposits. I know putting higher octane gas in an old car with detonation problems can sometimes fix the problem. Going full throttle every once in a while is also good to help prevent carbon deposits.. It lets in more oxygen and increases combustion temperature to the point that the carbon can burn off. I gotta go full throttle after a stop light at least once a trip to keep the bike in good condition of course.. :) |
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Title: Re: RESOLVED! not the stator, its the fuel! Post by TheSnakeLady on 01/20/11 at 14:44:44 I tore my carb apart last summer and completely cleaned the whole thing, got the slide movin perfect and cleaned the jets. Everything was spottles! Still won't run 87. 91s not that much more expensive and the bike seems to enjoy it so.... We'll see what happens with the new air filter, exhaust and being rejetted, mabey I'll retry 87 after all that. |
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Title: Re: RESOLVED! not the stator, its the fuel! Post by james may on 01/20/11 at 14:55:14 Not the carb the cylinder. Carbon buildup is a common cause of detonation and needing to run higher octane fuels. If you take the cylinderhead off and it's all black and cruddy that's carbon buildup and if bad enough it can increase your compression ratio making running lower octane gas more difficult. Running on higher octane gas probably won't hurt your engine or anything, but the fact that it won't run on the gas it was designed for means there is probably something wrong. To seafoam it out get a bottle of seafoam start your engine and warm it up, unplug a vacuum line and suck up 1/4 of the bottle until the engine stalls out. turn off the engine and let it sit for a few hours.. then restart and run until the smoke stops coming out of your tailpipe. You can put it in your gas too, but that takes forever(few hundred miles) and makes your engine run less efficiently. |
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Title: Re: RESOLVED! not the stator, its the fuel! Post by TheSnakeLady on 01/20/11 at 17:24:28 I'll have to try that when I get the bike put all back together (and when it gets warmer out). Thanks for the advice. |
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Title: Re: RESOLVED! not the stator, its the fuel! Post by logan31907 on 01/20/11 at 17:38:23 I'm sooo glad that I live in FL....where riding season is practically everyday and all year. except when there's a storm with 100+mph gail force winds ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: RESOLVED! not the stator, its the fuel! Post by TheSnakeLady on 01/20/11 at 19:24:50 Lol, I'm jelous! Here in New York tomarrow's high is like 10* lol. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/22/11 at 12:36:50 ^^bump^^ OP |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Boule’tard on 01/22/11 at 12:59:56 Every time you put the petcock on prime, it started up again. I think the fuel petcock is bad. Just get the Yamaha Raptor petcock for $20~25 and call it good. Remember to block off the vacuum line that went to the original petcock. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/22/11 at 13:08:54 6B667C656C7D687B6D090 wrote:
So replace the petcock? Does the raptor petcock work the same way as stock? ....as far as the fuel switch goes? It'll even stall out on the "on" fuel position. What does the petcock do? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/11 at 13:09:01 or... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1113631600 or... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1268804471 |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/22/11 at 13:09:18 6B667C656C7D687B6D090 wrote:
So replace the petcock? Does the raptor petcock work the same way as stock? ....as far as the fuel switch goes? It'll even stall out on the "on" fuel position. What does the petcock do? Someone at my job said its the carb. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/11 at 13:15:23 24272F217B7971787F480 wrote:
I'd also take the petcock off the tank and inspect it. The 1st link I gave you is for manual conversion, It'll show you how to take it apart. The diaphragm seal will most likely tear apart on you, so you might just check to see if the screws are tight. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by verslagen1 on 01/22/11 at 13:19:42 50535B550F0D050C0B3C0 wrote:
We know this bike a little better than they do. But of course we can't see it actually running. Take each bit of advice with salt and check it out. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Serowbot on 01/22/11 at 14:13:04 Test your Petcock,.. don't just turn it to Prime.. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1251932429 |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Boule’tard on 01/22/11 at 14:25:44 34373F316B6961686F580 wrote:
Yes, replace it. You will be surprised at how easily it just bolts in. The raptor operates a little different than stock. With the stock one, on means on (as in, allowing gas to flow through) only if the vacuum mechanism is hooked up and operating as it should. I suspect yours isn't. With the raptor, on=on, the same as the stock petcock in the "prime" position. The only disadvantage is that you need to remember to turn it off at the end of the day and back on when you ride again. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/22/11 at 16:02:37 373A20393021342731550 wrote:
Yes, replace it. You will be surprised at how easily it just bolts in. The raptor operates a little different than stock. With the stock one, on means on (as in, allowing gas to flow through) only if the vacuum mechanism is hooked up and operating as it should. I suspect yours isn't. With the raptor, on=on, the same as the stock petcock in the "prime" position. The only disadvantage is that you need to remember to turn it off at the end of the day and back on when you ride again. [/quote] Will I still have the ability to "prime" with the raptor petcock since "on" means "prime" ? Also, did I damage anything when I rode about 5 miles with the choke open? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/22/11 at 16:06:54 373A20393021342731550 wrote:
Yes, replace it. You will be surprised at how easily it just bolts in. The raptor operates a little different than stock. With the stock one, on means on (as in, allowing gas to flow through) only if the vacuum mechanism is hooked up and operating as it should. I suspect yours isn't. With the raptor, on=on, the same as the stock petcock in the "prime" position. The only disadvantage is that you need to remember to turn it off at the end of the day and back on when you ride again. [/quote] Will I still have the ability to "prime" with the raptor petcock since "on" means "prime" ? Also, did I damage anything when I rode about 5 miles with the choke open? How do I turn it off?....is there a different switch on the raptor petcock? And why is it necessary to turn it off? And do I turn it off after each ride? Or just at the end of the day? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Serowbot on 01/22/11 at 16:17:40 You did no harm... With a Raptor,.. on is on, off is off, and reserve is reserve... "Prime" on a vacuum petcock, is an open flow of gas to the carb, just like "on" is on a normal petcock... vac petcocks have no "Off"... |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Bubba on 01/22/11 at 16:21:12 Logan, do yourself a favor and read the links that were posted...they explain everything. For me the raptor was an easy switch, cheaper than the stock one and in the past I had ridden bikes that you had to turn the fuel off when done riding so it wasn't that hard to remember. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/22/11 at 16:30:05 5F687F7F7C2C2D252E1D0 wrote:
Sorry for all the questions. I will read the links....its just that I'm at work right now posting with my blackberry. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Bubba on 01/22/11 at 17:10:41 No apologies necessary, we all have to start somewhere. The folks here have saved me lots of heartache... :) A great forum...the BEST!!! |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Boule’tard on 01/22/11 at 17:25:22 3F3C343A60626A6364530 wrote:
Yes, like Serowbot says, the Raptor's "on" is the same as the stock petcock's "prime." That is, really ON :D With the Raptor, off=off You did not damage anything by running rich for 5 miles. Opinions differ on how often it is necessary to turn a manual petcock on and off. If the float valve in your carb is 100% trustworthy, you never need to turn it off. Most seep a little over time, therefore the shutoff valve exists. Turning it off for a 10-minute stop is a little obsessive IMO. I say turn it off overnight or any time the bike will sit for more than a couple hours. Don't worry about it too much between rides, running errands and whatnot. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/22/11 at 17:39:15 So I just got home from work, about a 10 minute ride, and I'd figure I would switch it to the "on" position to see what would happen. And it didn't die or stall on me this time. Is the petcock still the culprit if its an intermittent problem? also, with the raptor petcock, I understand that on = on, and that on = prime also. Does that mean there is no separate position/switch for prime? So on = on = prime? Would I still be using the stock fuel switch (I.e. For reserve, prime, and on). And if I still do use the stock switch, will the "prime" position still work like its suPposed to (since on=on=prime)? Its difficult for me to comprehend...I know, I'm an idiot. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Boule’tard on 01/22/11 at 17:52:28 Yes, the intermittent problem that does not show itself over a 10-mile ride is very likely still a problem with the auto-petcock sytem, such as a small hole in the vacuum diaphragm, a tiny crack in the vacuum line, or a poor-sealing hose connection. To help understand how it works.. think of the vacuum system as an invisible hand that turns the petcock from "ON" to "PRIME" as soon as you start the engine, and leaves it there until you shut it down. Converting that to Raptor/manual petcock language, it's turning the petcock from "OFF" to "ON" while the engine is running. The word "ON" on the stock petcock is a misnomer, but I guess "OFF UNLESS THE ENGINE IS ON" wouldn't fit on there. ;D |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/22/11 at 18:05:50 Ok...so, with the raptor petcock, there's 2 positions...on and reserve? And if I ever needed to use "prime" its just the "on" position? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Boule’tard on 01/22/11 at 18:22:28 There's on, off and reserve. Reserve just lets it draw the gas down to a lower level, pretty much all the gas in the tank. Correct that the Raptor's "ON" is the old "PRIME." You got it [smiley=thumbsup.gif] |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/23/11 at 11:33:49 So I did the test from the links provided. I took the vacuum off and sucked on it and gas came out. I then plugged the lines, ran it on prime, and it ran good. Petcock diaphragm |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/23/11 at 11:36:44 & the trumpets blared Dunt duh duh Duuuuuh! Congrats! |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/23/11 at 13:29:32 So I'll order a raptor petcock on ebay (unless someone knows a better vendor) ans will let ya'll know how it goes. THANK YOU EVERYONE!!!!! Suzukisavage.com kicks a$$!!!! |
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Title: Re: could it be the stator? - i dont think so?.... Post by logan31907 on 01/23/11 at 14:26:45 6D5A4D4D4E1E1F171C2F0 wrote:
What year raptor do I use? Is that link for a oem petcock or raptor? And is it new or used? I went to that site, but it only gave a product number as the description |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Serowbot on 01/23/11 at 14:54:07 That's a Raptor.... ;)... |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/23/11 at 16:44:59 3325322F37222F34400 wrote:
What year is it for? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Serowbot on 01/23/11 at 17:41:30 222129277D7F777E794E0 wrote:
What year is it for? [/quote] all of 'em... |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/23/11 at 19:26:43 6E786F726A7F72691D0 wrote:
What year is it for? [/quote] all of 'em...[/quote] Ok. So any year raptor can replace any year savage? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Boule’tard on 01/23/11 at 19:59:16 The part number Bubba gave in that link, 5LP-24500-01-00, is the Raptor 660 petcock for all years it was made (2001-05) and it fits all Savage and DR650 tanks, a few jet skis, DRZs, and a partridge in a pear tree. BUY THAT PART. ;D |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/26/11 at 10:27:23 So is there a DIY for replacing oem petcock for raptor petcock? I have a clymers manual....should I just follow those directions to remove and replace the petcock? Al the bolt patterns fit? Anything I need to adjust when replacing it? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Serowbot on 01/26/11 at 10:41:20 Direct bolt up... just block off the vac line... Read the link I already posted. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/26/11 at 10:45:52 Ok. Thanks. I thought the links were to repair the stock petcock and to test the petock. But I'm prolly wrong and will look again |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/26/11 at 11:22:16 I just wanna see Logans (bike) Run |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Bubba on 01/26/11 at 12:04:12 091610170A0D3C0C3C04161A51630 wrote:
+1 Logan, it's gonna work...P.S> just remember to take the little plastic protector off the new petcock...should just be 2 screen like entry points for fuel...if I remember correctly :P |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by youzguyz on 01/26/11 at 16:11:42 417661616232333B30030 wrote:
+1 Logan, it's gonna work...P.S> just remember to take the little plastic protector off the new petcock...should just be 2 screen like entry points for fuel...if I remember correctly :P[/quote] You remember well. As I just put a Raptor petcock on my backup Savage tonight. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 01/26/11 at 23:34:27 Im super confused. ever since I did the petcock test, my bike has been running good on the "on" position for almost 200 miles now with no problems. could it be that I ran the bike with the full choke on for almost 10 miles? arggg.....now I got oil problems !!! |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Bubba on 01/27/11 at 07:05:46 Logan, the petcock is a common failure point on the bike. Not really a failure point but it can make it difficult to diagnose poor running problems because it throws in the vac line (a point of failure). If you swap out with the raptor it's no big deal other than you avoid any more problems with the vacuum petcock (cuz you seal off the vac line on the carb). The main thing is to get used to shutting the fuel off when you're done riding for any long periods of time. The reason I swapped mine out is because I was stalling out in cool weather. For whatever reason, it fixed that problem permanently...and it was way less money then replacing it with a stock one. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 02/02/11 at 18:26:09 So the intermittent problem has been diagnosed. I posted days ago that it was only an intermittent problem with the petcock. If I fill the tank to full, it runs perfect. But when I get to the 20 to 30 mile mark that's left on the tank, that's when it will stall out and needs to be ran and started on "prime" switch. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by 2whlthrpy on 02/02/11 at 18:48:25 Logan, mine does pretty much the same thing. I grew tired of "diagnosing the problem" and bought a raptor a few days ago. If I still have problems after that then I have narrowed it down 2 failure points, well one anyway that has multiple re-percussions. This post helped me pull the trigger i might add. Thanks to all involved. [smiley=tekst-toppie.gif] |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by verslagen1 on 02/02/11 at 19:16:35 7B78707E24262E2720170 wrote:
20-30 miles left, does that mean you went 100 miles on the tank? and have you tried reserve? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 02/02/11 at 19:21:17 I always estimate 100 miles per tank. Just to be safe. But when o get to the last 30 or 20 miles on the tank, that's when it will stall |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by verslagen1 on 02/02/11 at 19:31:08 How much do you put in when you fill and do you fill right after it stalls or later? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 02/02/11 at 19:39:55 72617677686563616A35040 wrote:
I fill 93 octane til it reaches the bottom of the inside spout. It runs fine on the "on" position til there's about 25 miles left on the full tank. Once it start to stall, I fill up.the tank and rum it back on "normal" |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 02/02/11 at 19:40:13 72617677686563616A35040 wrote:
I fill 93 octane til it reaches the bottom of the inside spout. It runs fine on the "on" position til there's about 25 miles left on the full tank. Once it start to stall, I fill up.the tank and rum it back on "normal" |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by verslagen1 on 02/02/11 at 19:49:05 How much do you put in? What's your mpg? |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by logan31907 on 02/02/11 at 20:20:32 203324253A3731333867560 wrote:
I put gas all up to the bottom of the fuel cylinder. Not sure my mph. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by verslagen1 on 02/02/11 at 20:33:49 can't answer your question then. can't say whether you're normal or not. worry or don't worry. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by verslagen1 on 02/02/11 at 21:13:40 If this was my bike... I go 100 miles between fills, a fill up is 2.1 gals about 10 miles from fill up, I go on reserve. |
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Title: Re: WTF?!?!?! NOT RESOLVED..... Post by Bubba on 02/03/11 at 07:00:49 I dunno, it sounds to me as though everything is normal. Your "stalling" is just the point where you have used up the gas in the "on" position and then you to switch over to your "reserve" fuel. am I missing something????? |
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