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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Worn camshaft /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1293851820 Message started by Mega on 12/31/10 at 19:16:58 |
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Title: Worn camshaft Post by Mega on 12/31/10 at 19:16:58 I opened up the engine today to investigate a loud tapping noise coming from the head. When I removed the valve cover I noticed the rocker arm was severly worn where it contacts the cam. The surface s now concave. Tomorrow I intend to buy a better set of calipers to measure the cam lobes, but the exhaust looks like it has some slight flattening and I'm afraid I may need a new one. Anyone have suggestions what could cause this? |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by MotoBuddha on 12/31/10 at 19:24:47 What sort of milage on your bike? |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/31/10 at 22:42:11 Coulda just been a bad casting. I had a lobe go away on a cam in a 460 Ford. A friend slapped a cam & set O lifters in it. Took him 8 hours from the time he diagnosed the Dead Miss to washing hands. & that includes the time to go buy the cam set. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by verslagen1 on 12/31/10 at 22:55:58 Year, mileage, and last time the head cover was off. Most often, it's caused by oil starvation. The cam lobes sit in a bath tub that's filled with oil. If debree or excessive RTV fills the oil path, the head will be starved of oil. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by Oldfeller on 01/01/11 at 01:48:15 To answer your question we need to know the mileage. Oil starvation is the only low mileage answer. Very high mileage answer is fairly obvious -- lotsa lotsa miles. Slolution is over $100 of new parts or else this ... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1268653293 |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by Mega on 01/01/11 at 07:16:10 It's at work, and I'll check the mileage later today. I'm going to say 16k. Definitely in the teens. This is the first I've opened it since I picked it up. I have no service history. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/01/11 at 08:14:43 WAY too young of an engine for that kind of failure. Somethings up. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by Mega on 01/01/11 at 09:07:16 Yeah, that kind of uneven wear makes me think now of a possible sticking valve. Something happened or is happening. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by Mega on 01/01/11 at 11:03:26 I checked the mileage for sure and it's less than 15k. The exhaust lobe is .01 within tolerance. So it's usable but not for long. I still haven't removed the time chain since I do not have a 36mm wrench. Sears doesn't either. I'm definitely going to pull the head off now and check for a sticky or damaged valve. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/01/11 at 11:21:31 You can get a set of 1/2" drive, deep impact sockets from Harbor Freight for cheap thatll do the job nicely. I did. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 01/01/11 at 12:15:38 Probably oil starvation. You really, really need to have the engine set at least at 1000 RPM. I had an oil pressure gauge on mine and at 1000 rpm, the oil pressure reading with a warm engine, down at the test port (sort of hidden behind the exhaust pipe down by the filter (facing front)), is only about 2 psig. (pounds per sqr inch). That's not very much oil at idle. I had experimented once and if I recall correctly, around 900 RPM it's only around 1 psig. Yea, I know it sounds neater if the rpm are lower (thump thump thump) but......... Here's a picture with the bike not fully warmed up. http://www.users.fast.net/~tommack/sm-New_tach-oil_press.JPG |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by MotoBuddha on 01/02/11 at 05:36:42 4831517D7F772D1C0 wrote:
Could you show a photo of this? |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by ralfyguy on 01/02/11 at 06:04:59 It's that plug in the clutch cover you took off and wondered about the casting imperfection. It's that hex head screw plug. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by MotoBuddha on 01/02/11 at 06:20:54 Do you mean this? http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/89099aa1.jpg |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by ralfyguy on 01/02/11 at 06:35:45 If this is the mirrored image from the clutch cover, then yes. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by MotoBuddha on 01/02/11 at 06:48:32 Mirrored? Here's a different shot. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/41cdf375.jpg |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by ralfyguy on 01/02/11 at 07:28:49 I'm sorry i was wrong. The port is next to it in the crankcase with a plug facing forward. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by MotoBuddha on 01/02/11 at 07:43:30 This, then? How do I remove the plug? Does the center part come off, revealing a socket head? http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/3328935e.jpg |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by ralfyguy on 01/02/11 at 08:02:59 That is weird, as mine has a plug with a hex head. But mine is a '06 |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by fsmidt on 01/02/11 at 08:09:39 prob. the middle thingy is an plastic cover. take a flat srewdriver to get it out,this will reveille the real plug. http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/download/id=167.html http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/download/id=166.html |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by verslagen1 on 01/02/11 at 08:14:36 4C5947434E5E2A0 wrote:
never seen on with a cap there, but that's what it is. Just like the one on the handlebar clamp. Get under it with a wood chisel and pry it off. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by MotoBuddha on 01/02/11 at 08:27:46 OK, it popped right off. So the question for T MAck 1 - FSO is whether the gauge setup was a kit or did you have to gather the fittings and hose yourself? |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by ralfyguy on 01/02/11 at 08:36:04 I think he had to get an adapter, something like M14x1.25 and then hose and gauge and stuff |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by fsmidt on 01/02/11 at 08:39:36 m12x1.5 i think,i have to look it up in our dutch forum. i bought one but never used it. i was planning to use an oilcooler. pic of my oilcooler http://www.suzukisavage.nl/ForumsPro/download/id=258.html |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/02/11 at 08:51:01 Well, thats sure a pretty thing, whats a deal like that cost? |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by fsmidt on 01/02/11 at 08:59:52 don`t know anymore. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by verslagen1 on 01/02/11 at 09:04:07 It's an odd size... Both plugs are the same size and thread m12x1.25 same as oil drain plug, the plug up top and the sparkplug. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/02/11 at 10:42:44 372433322D2026242F70410 wrote:
Smart. A manufacturer would only need one size tap on the line for the big holes. If they were all 3 different sizes, then thered be 2 more inventory items to buy & keep stocked. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by MotoBuddha on 01/02/11 at 10:55:57 M12x1.25 isn't that odd, at least when it comes to hose fittings. M12x1.25 banjo bolts are readily available, so running a pressure gauge or cooler shouldn't be a big deal. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by MotoBuddha on 01/02/11 at 11:03:25 45504E4A4757230 wrote:
Where would the return line run to? |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by verslagen1 on 01/02/11 at 12:21:32 Here's some reading for you... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1247791900/0 More... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1246933111/0 A little more... http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1151246239 There's another page, I'll have to find it. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by MotoBuddha on 01/02/11 at 13:29:09 Cool, thanks. Sorry for sort of jacking this thread. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by Mega on 01/02/11 at 17:42:14 Actually the 2nd thread posted above has a good picture of what my cam and rocker look like. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by Mega on 01/03/11 at 12:05:09 Can the head be removed with the engine still mounted? |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by verslagen1 on 01/03/11 at 12:48:20 Yes if you pull some of the head bolts. But at some point you'll wish you pulled the engine. It's a tight fit. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by Max_Morley on 01/03/11 at 17:37:39 You can do it in frame by removing the upper rear motor mount through bolts and loosening the lower one. Pegs have to be off also and the head stay. It allows the engine to tip forward enough to slip the head off the studs. Also rear wheel will have to be loosened and moved to the forward position to allow the belt to move with the engine. Max |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 01/05/11 at 13:24:06 The gauge was installed using parts I had plus a metric to NPT adapter I bought. see: http://www.egauges.com/vdo_acce.asp?Subgroup=Metric_Adapter_Bushings If I did it again, I think I would buy a oil pressure install kit at Auto-Zone for the plumbing. I used 1/8" NPT nipples and used a wire tie to clamp it on to the fitting. One of my to-do's is to post the pict's in the Tect Ref section. My first stab is in the Rubber side at http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1194960603/12#12 . It has my old tach and old gauge shown. I have new pict's to post. |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 01/05/11 at 13:34:17 Here's a picture I copied from eBay years ago that you can see the test port ...... sort of.... maybe. Just to the right and down a little from the crankshaft hole. Or using compass wording, southeast from the crankcase hole. http://www.users.fast.net/~tommack/jun23_20.jpg |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by engineer on 02/05/11 at 17:22:20 Hello fsmidt: That is a nice looking oil cooler. Where is it supposed to be mounted? Do you know where they can be purchased? Do you know what its' capacity is? I am just full of questions tonight. Thanks |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by engineer on 02/05/11 at 17:35:39 I'm a little surprised by T Mack 1 's oil guage readings of 1 and 2 psi. Guages aren't very accurate at the extreme bottom end of their range but his guage is calibrated fairly low so it is probably a reasonably accurate number. I would have expected it to be higher. I haven't studied the oil circuit very close to see how that might effect the reading at that point. Has anyone else checked their oil pressure? |
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Title: Re: Worn camshaft Post by Ed L. on 02/05/11 at 19:17:26 I put oil cooler on my '02 and hooked a gauge up to check the pressure drop at different places in the oil pathway. At 1200 rpm I was only getting about 10 psi, when I dropped the rpm down to 1000 the pressure was 5 psi with a hot engine. I was using a gauge with a range of 0-30 psi so I would think that it was accurate at the lower end. The oil cooler is set up with the flow going from the front port thru the cooler and back to the space that the oil filter sits in. I drilled and tapped a return in the side cover just above the filter. So far it has worked great and has added almost another quart to the oil capacity of the engine. The plumbing make the bike look a little frankenstein to some. |
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