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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Crappy Welding Main Frames
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Message started by Routy on 12/19/10 at 09:55:43

Title: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by Routy on 12/19/10 at 09:55:43

I have always thought the welding on my bike's main frame is just plain crappy, wondering if I got one that was made on Friday or Monday. But after many pictures I've seen here, I don't feel singled out,....its all just plain crappy. I've even seen pcs of Mig wire sticking out of the welds, and gobs of weld hanging like it almost ended up a big drip on the floor. Seems to me like they not only hired anybody off the street to weld, but also have about the worst quality control I've seen.
I commented only because most any other welding I've seen from other countries has been beautiful,....just wondering why Suzuki is different.
But if no history of frame failures here, I guess the welding is good enough, and when the price is right we don't complain. And the only time I really see it is when I'm down low changing oil or something.

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by sexombob on 12/19/10 at 10:09:16

I think on all the cheaper bikes, they're not going to spend the extra money and effort to make better looking welds. Function over fashion i suppose. take the sv650 for example. The welds below the tank are clearly visible and ugly looking but what can you do? I'm just happy the engines and trannies are strong and long lasting.

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by Routy on 12/20/10 at 05:52:56

I haven't really looked at the welding on other motorcycles to compare, but several years ago I was really into Recumbent bicycles, (bent bikes) and I remember the low end model of EZRacers that was mfg'd in Freedom Ca. It wasn't selling well at around $1,000, and the welding wasn't pretty either. They were forced to get that competive model made overseas to get the price down to the compeditors price of $750.
The first models back were unbelievable,.....not only had the retail price had dropped to $695, all the welding was beautiful Heli-arc !
All the compeditors bikes were from overseas also, and the welding was superb on every one of them. Thats why this sloppy welding on Suzuki frames really surprised me, and also because welding/metal fab was my thing for most of my life.

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by Lupo on 12/20/10 at 14:30:44

When I built my bike I cleaned up all the welds. It looks like the frame welds are robotics. Look at how the stitch continues beyond the bonding points. Most of the welds are about 25% more then needed. I think a human would stop and go on to another weld where a machine applies whatever is dialed in.

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by bill67 on 12/20/10 at 14:51:21

My wife welded for about fives years,Then they put her in the office for quality control on the welding.

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by ralfyguy on 12/20/10 at 16:27:23

My frame is no better. In fact it has like gritty sprinkles under the paint all over, and when I clean it, either the rag snags on it or sometimes my hands and knuckles and takes some skin and meat off. Some areas look like they were trying to breadcrumb it or something and then painted over the top.

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by Routy on 12/21/10 at 05:48:24

We call them "weld berries" or splatter.....sometimes caused from a machine being too hot. And a welder is sometimes set too hot for the inexperienced welder that can't hardly help get decent weld penetration by accident if nothing else. :o
I really don't believe that these frames are machine welded,...because the only consistency I see in the welds is that their all sloppy.

Hard to believe, but I'm not complaining, just commenting. As long as my frame doesn't start hi centering over a speed bump, it must be ok ! ? ;D

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by Routy on 12/21/10 at 05:58:35

242F2A2A7071460 wrote:

My wife welded for Suzuki for about fives years,Then they put her in the office for quality control on the welding.

Does this explain it all ? ;D

Just kidding Bill

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by babyhog on 12/21/10 at 07:30:10

Routy, since I don't think you will mind me asking a semi-related question... my husband does some welding, and the guys where I work weld daily. I have seen plenty of good welds and bad welds. I also know there are "specifications" to welding to ensure that the bond will be strong enough for the intended purpose. Does machine-welded stuff get inspected to make sure the welds are the proper length/thickness/whatever-word-fits-here? What are the chances of a machine weld being unsafe? Hopefully they care more about safety than they do about making it look good (because they sure don't care much about the looks, huh)

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by Boofer on 12/21/10 at 08:00:34

Apparently you people are taking waaay too much time washing and waxing instead of riding. Around here if you don't wash off the oil leaks and ride on dusty roads the bad welds just seem to vanish. Maybe if BMW made a Savage? ;D

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by Routy on 12/21/10 at 08:43:55

BH,
I really don't know much about programmed machine welding, except a lot of it that I have seen is beautiful and consistent. But I would have to guess that a machine weld is no better than what has been programmed into it,....or no better than the programmer.

7370717C7E641D0 wrote:

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by wingsout on 12/22/10 at 16:21:09

A lot of things come into play when welding;

Metal Inert Gas (MIG) is considered to be fast and efficient although not as strong as SMAW ( shielded metal arc welding) or TIG (tungsten inert gas). Wire speed plays a big role in MIG welding---shielding gas is usually CO2; some wire is flux cored which is not recommended.

The main things to look for in a weld are uniformity of bead ,undercutting, and air entrapment. If any of these things are present the weld is probably weak and may or may not be subject to failure.

The only sure way to tell if a weld is subject to failure is to X-ray it.

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/22/10 at 20:11:53

Just read a little ditty on welding up bicycle frames. Seems the parent material will break, depending on design ( lugged or not) & weld type. IIRC, they decided brazed frames held up better.

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by 12Bravo on 12/23/10 at 06:13:06

I was military certified in welding and have done welding in the Army and in industrial plants as a civilian. There are a lot of variables when it comes to welding. A lot depends on what type of metal you are welding on if SMAW is better than MIG. Our bikes looks like they are welded by hand but I have yet to see one have any welds break. Might be different if someone was jumping a Savage all of the time (motocross)

Title: Re: Crappy Welding Main Frames
Post by Routy on 12/23/10 at 07:37:16

Yep, most the welds look like the machines are turned up HOT for hi production. When welding hot, there is a lot better chance of good penetration, but it can sure take its toll in appearance. Being a wellder at trade, I would much rather see the hot splattery welds than cold balled up welds sitting on top (scary) but it does surprise me that there is virtually no cleanup,....not even hitting the lumps on these welds. But we know it all comes back to hi production....productivity. And like said, frame/weld failures are near non existent, so who's to complain.