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Message started by Jack_650 on 12/13/10 at 00:04:26

Title: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by Jack_650 on 12/13/10 at 00:04:26

What parts do I want to get to convert to chain drive to get somewhere around 70 mpg highway for my little 650? And doing this type of running am I going to have trouble keeping the oil pressure up for proper cooling in extended 45-50 mph situations. Also, when I do extended trips I carry 70-80 pounds of camping gear and such besides my svelte 180 or so pounds. I'm not worried about screaming acceleration, just steady down the road running at highway speeds.

And while I'm at it do I want to switch over to a set of one of those other Suzuki cast wheels. I still would plan on running tubes 'cause, why not? Are there ones that would get me better braking, dual discs on the front or maybe a disc on the back and still bolt on without too much modification being needed. I don't know nuffin' 'bout birthin' no babies. Or the other, older Suzuki models. I hardly know anything about this bike except what I've gotten from here the last couple three years.

An itemized list of parts from which ever bikes, gear teeth counts for my needs and the blessings of the lifers on here will do me nicely.

(And while I'm at it, anyone on here ever rebuilt one of those little VW diesels? I've got one in an '81 pickup in my driveway under 10" of new, sub-zero snow that will be getting some of my attention in the spring. I was thinking of getting some Savage decals for it so I don't feel too bad asking.)

Jack

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by Routy on 12/13/10 at 06:58:55

Quote:
What parts do I want to get to convert to chain drive to get somewhere around 70 mpg highway for my little 650?
------------------------------------------------------------------
Some here get 70 mpg ::) w/ belt drive,.....you mite push 80-90 mpg w/ chain drive !
But in all seriousness, are you sure you haven't been a little misinformed about chain drive ? The effeciency of chain drive has been seriousy discussed here before, and as I remember it, our belt drive was found to be more effecient than some chain drives.

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by MotoBuddha on 12/13/10 at 07:46:53

TAs far as chain conversion and sprocket sizes goes, there's probably more that you'll ever want to know at this link.

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1174239333

Basically, the smaller your rear sprocket, the lower your RPM for any given speed. The lower your RPM, the less fuel you use.

But if you go too small with the rear sprocket, the more revs you have to give the bike to launch it from a stop. That wouldn't effect overall mileage that much (a few seconds at higher RPM to start versus minutes at higher RPM the rest of the time). It just makes starting off a bit of a bother.

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by verslagen1 on 12/13/10 at 08:17:00

You can swap for GS450 wheels single disk in front and drum in back.
See the "whale" thread for info.

The advantage of the GS450 wheel is that it is a 16" rim. And you can use a D401 MT90-16 which come with the thickess tread available. It's also larger than stock so you gain a 5-10% lower rpm at speed.

Going double disk in front you'll need to swap the whole front end. All of the GS450's to 1100 are escentually the same. Find a model with what you want and swap it out. I'm putting on a GR650 set of forks soon and it requiring some mod's to the steering stops but almost a direct swap.

Rear is much more difficult, and probably won't get you any more braking, but maybe more feel. As our drum is quite capable of locking the rear now.

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by MotoBuddha on 12/13/10 at 09:22:26

6F7C6B6A75787E7C7728190 wrote:

Some GS450's had 18" wheels front and rear.

When you say GS front ends will swap out, do you mean they're a direct bolt on with no mods? The spindles are the same length and diameter? The bearings are the same?

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by verslagen1 on 12/13/10 at 09:49:16

193B203B162130303C35540 wrote:

Yes, as always, verify what you're buying as I see all the time parts identified incorrectly at fleabay. Sh!t, the last guy I told his parts were wrong was incredulous, told me he took it off a '99 himself, told me to check it against oem parts fische, yada yada. I told him to check himself.

I bought an '80's GS650 front end, wheel size, spindle and bearings, identical. The tripple tree is flatter the savage, meaning that the forks are offset from the spindle, let's call it an inch only to say a number. Had some trouble with a damaged part so bought an '83 GR650 tree. Forks fit in fine (35mm), required a different axle and spacers. Both the GS and the GR require the steering stops modified to keep the forks off the tank. The bearings are all taper roller bearings.

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by Jack_650 on 12/13/10 at 21:32:36

So maybe I should stretch my frame at the back, get a 20" rim, spoke it to the stock belt gear and use a Harley belt. I think I remember reading here somewhere that their belts have the same belt teeth we do, they're just a little longer and a bit narrower.

I got the bike to get me around with less gas usage and it does pretty well, but I still get only in the 50-mid 50's. I got it for long trips to out of the way places so any mileage I add just makes that much more riding I can do. I would like to hear from those that get around 70 mpg on these bikes and how they do it. These bikes are near indestructible if you take care of them.

Being a senior in the music business means the work is much harder to come by. Seems that "image" is more important than "ability". Looking young for 62 still isn't 22 now is it? Turns out we're not all Mick or Willie.

Oh well, and so it goes.

Jack

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by MotoBuddha on 12/14/10 at 05:33:45

73585A52660F0C09390 wrote:

So maybe I should stretch my frame at the back, get a 20" rim, spoke it to the stock belt gear and use a Harley belt.

I'm not following the economics of that option. A chain conversion is cheaper (and easier) than a 20" rim and tire, a new belt and stretching the swingarm.

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by Serowbot on 12/14/10 at 10:59:39

At 40 - 50 mph,... if you gear up, you'll need to be in 4th at 40-50mph...
... better than gearing up,.. just go 60 instead of 70...
it's not so much the rpm at 70 as the headwind...

For better mileage, loosen the drive belt a little, and run 3 or 4 lbs of extra air in your tires... stay with stock jetting,... then, adjust your right hand...
... if you have to,... adjust the throttle cable so that it doesn't pull to WFO on the carb...

... mostly adjust your right hand... ;)...

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by Jack_650 on 12/14/10 at 14:51:28

I ride steady and even already and I'm not a big one for using only one wheel on the ground. Not into goosing the throttle or jack rabbit starts. I'm sure the darksider on the back gives me a bit more rolling resistance but the extra grip for the brakes and the probably never having to replace it makes me happy.

I suppose we suffer a bit from out near electronic free, computer-less bikes. I guess I just want everything: 100 miles to the gallon, no tune-ups, easy to work on, great factory support, a lot of money and some warm weather up here where the domes collapses.

Jack

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/14/10 at 15:33:56

Shoot for the stars.. nothing wrong with setting high standards or having lofty goals. If that was the way everyone was, I expect the world would be a better place.

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by james may on 01/18/11 at 17:51:22

Aerodynamics actually play a huge role in fuel economy on a motorcycle.. Since their about as unaerodynamic as you can get. Ask yourself why a compact care with a 1.8liter engine that produces 160hp loaded with 5 passengers that weighs at least 3000lbs can get about 35mpg highway. And a big cruiser with a mere 1 liter to 1.2 liter with about 80hp that only weighs 800lbs also gets 35mpg. Compairing weight power and displacement the big cruiser should get at least 2 times the fuel economy to 8 times the fuel economy, but it doesn't, because of aerodynamics.

A fairing would do loads for your fuel economy especially when you really feel the wind resistance above 45-50 which is what you are talking about. With full fairing and careful driving you might push 80-100mpg. If you built a full body( streamliner ) around you and the bike it could probably reach 125MPG. It will also allow you more passing power on the highway because you won't fight against the air resistance. Gearing will probably have small results in the 5-10% improvement range rather than closer to 100% improvement with a fairing.

wiki motorcycle fairings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_fairing

this guy doubled his fuel economy with a full fairing on a 125cc scooter that was getting around 100mpg, but with the fairing gets over 200mpg

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/01/diy-streamliner-honda-motorbike-214-mpg.php

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/18/11 at 18:46:16

A guy on a 10 speed fights about the same aero load as a pickup. A motorcycle cant be any better.

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by BurnPgh on 01/18/11 at 19:03:11

5B485F5E414C4A48431C2D0 wrote:

GS450s are NOT direct swaps. '83-'86 GS550 REAR is a direct swap. I can't speak to the GS550 front but the GS450 front will need different spacers. The 450s are not actually tubeless. I've run them tubeless, and i dont see any reason not to, but they apparently arent actually rated for tubeless use. The GS550s are tubeless.

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by verslagen1 on 01/18/11 at 19:42:28

You're right burny, got to many 50's in my head, all running together.
But as I said, look up the whale thread, it's in there.
gs450 disk, trimmed down abit.
gs550 rear, yep, it's tubeless, says so on the rim.
gs650 front, same.

quite a few fronts rims are the same size and pattern, maybe the pattern I got are tubeless and the others not. Don't know why they would be different.

Title: Re: Chain conversion for max mpg
Post by Jack_650 on 01/19/11 at 23:18:06

I was, in fact, looking this past fall at some used Vetter fairings. I would have to make my own mounting hardware and trial-and-error getting it on right. Something to think about for the next big chore. After getting the fork seals done.

The whole minus degrees temps up here and two feet of compacted snow in the yard have slowed down my doing things blood flow. Turned my garage into a music studio and it's too cold to even get it warm enough to play around in. And since it's piled head high with "stuff" there's no room to even get the bike in.

And then there's the VW diesel pick-up engine I need to disassemble to find what's ailing it.

Add to that the birthday yesterday was the one to qualifies me for the national parks Golden Age Pass. At least where I went for lunch gives free cheese cake on your birthday. The waitress wouldn't sing to me though. Told me if I wanted singing, go to Chucky Cheese.

But I'm not bitter.

Jack