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Message started by jrm8486 on 12/10/10 at 11:42:18

Title: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by jrm8486 on 12/10/10 at 11:42:18

Does anyone have this muffler on there bike? I re jetted w/52.5pilot and 152.5 main w/ air pod and dyna,also 1/2 spacer.ran good. new muffler spiting and popping like mad even when adjusting air mix screw.do I have to re jet again and to what? any help?

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by jrm8486 on 12/10/10 at 12:55:23

Bike runs fine w/half choke out idles high but no backfiring,I think I should wait until I put the crush gasket in between new muffler and pipe,might this cause a backfiring w/ exhaust leak?

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by EJID on 12/10/10 at 14:16:47

Even the slightest exhaust leak can magnify the popping and cracking, found that out myself.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by jrm8486 on 12/16/10 at 07:01:14

Put the new gasket in and still backfiring,I'm going to try and adj. one more time then not sure if I want to re jet or put the dyna back on.don't mind the noise but the backfiring has to go.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by jrm8486 on 12/17/10 at 04:52:23

Nobody out there has a Jardine w/ air pod filter? still wondering what jetting your using?could use some help.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/17/10 at 05:04:50

Well, IM not quite AT sea level,, & you are, arent you?
Anyway, I have a 150 main, stock pilot & 14 discs on the S/trapp. Its not a big backfiring mess,,
Once youve got the leaky pipe sealed off, you can ride a bit & see if youre sooting up stuff with the exhaust. Mine soots up the brake arm some.
Figuring out just what part of the throttle is rich & where things go a bit lean isnt my forte at all. I know theres a way to roll off throttle a bit & feel to see if it picks up, indicating a lean condition.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by weracerc on 12/17/10 at 05:58:08

I have a stock air box, carb, header & jardine - I have not done anything to the guts of the carb - just adjusted the idle screw a little.....I have the snap crackle & pops and the loud backfiring and loud Bang when I shut it off......I like the noise - between the noise and the hi-vis riding gear they better dang well know I am in traffic with them - and the critters can hear me coming from quite a distance - gives them time to run, (away from - not in front of) me

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by bill67 on 12/17/10 at 06:04:11

weracerc you would be surprised how much power you would pick up by going to a richer high speed jet

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by weracerc on 12/17/10 at 06:28:18

eventually i plan to do some carb work - right now being still being a newb more or less i dont need too much power - I figured by the time i have about 5K miles (3400 to go) I will be ready for some more power.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/17/10 at 08:14:17

It wont be uncontrollable. Your wrist handles that part of it.Your engine will last longer jetted correctly.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by weracerc on 12/17/10 at 12:34:45

so get the Lancer kit, drop the bowl and put what back in it.....figuring it is box stock right now - I dont know for sure since I am 3rd owner.....2nd owner said he did not do anything to it but ride it - he did not know if 1st owner did anything to it carb wise or not.....had the stock exhaust on it when i got it and backfired then, not as impressively as it does now.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by spacepirates on 12/17/10 at 13:36:25

I've got a cone filter and a jardine, but haven't got the jetting right at all, so it'd be useless to tell you what i've got in there.

last time i tried, i ended up going through three sizes of pilots, none of which got a perfect idle or died when adjusting the mixture screw. (it was my understanding that finding the best idle jet setting was to put a jet in, put the screw in until it dies, turn the screw out until it dies, and set the screw somewhere in the middle).

I got some muffler sealant stuff now, and plan on trying my hand again at jetting next season. maybe i'll pick up a carb from a junkyard to toy with.

one good thing is that my jardine is now a deep dark blue color, which i like much better than the chrome. not good at all for the bike, but i don't mind the side effect.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by jrm8486 on 12/18/10 at 12:07:08

just rode my bike and adj.brass mix screw ,I think its all the way out,but not as bad w/ backfiring,so should I go from 52.5 jet to 55? any ideas?

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by Serowbot on 12/18/10 at 14:59:18

322A35606C606E580 wrote:

just rode my bike and adj.brass mix screw ,I think its all the way out,but not as bad w/ backfiring,so should I go from 52.5 jet to 55? any ideas?

Yes,... if it gets much more than three turns out, there is a danger of it falling out... go up a step on the pilot... (PS, it's an expensive screw to loose)...

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by jrm8486 on 12/19/10 at 14:27:15

just tried my bike again and guess I'll have to go up a jet to 55 just running like crap unless choke is half out.really don't feel like taking everything apart again but have no choice.Jardine was a direct bolt on w/ my 05,but had a amal carb on that one.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/19/10 at 14:35:37

You could add s pring from a ball point pen. then you can be 3 turns out + & still have sufficient spring pressure on it to keep vibration from backing it out.. hopefully... :)

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by jrm8486 on 01/07/11 at 08:07:45

Just re jetted to 55 pilot on my bike and think I got it,seems to be running fine now.try to ride it this afternoon and see.boy its loud!

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by thabrock on 10/22/12 at 15:01:36

I know this is a old thread.

I bet your bike is screaming now due to the lack of posts now.

I am just wondering what the final set up was.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by 07s40scotty on 10/22/12 at 17:45:21

I have a Jardine on my bike & a stock air filter. I have heard from a few quite reliable sources on the site that Jardines are not the easiest to " fine tune and that it maybe impossible ::) " And I'd have to AGREE

I have a 152.5 main & a stock 52.5 pilot with the air mix screw out 1.25 turns. I have a dyna jet needle, (because its adjustable & because I've tried 3 different sizes in the stage 1 kit) and 1/2 spacer.

It has great throttle response & I think I've gained some power but who knows. It will occasionally afterfire at shut off. I can usually stop this by idleing for 15 seconds. As far as backfiring- it don't on accelleration & a slight crackle on decel like it should. Thats at 80 degrees & light riding. It will sometimes backfire on upshift (very rarely) when it gets in the 90's & I'm really gettin on it.

I live in TN and prior outcomes are no gurantee of future results. ;)
IHTH!

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by JBK on 10/22/12 at 17:57:48

I got the Jardine w/cone filter on my 2001 but my air mixture screw is all the way in with no hope of turning out. Anyone know what the stock jets on this are and what I should go up to?

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by misterbbq on 10/23/12 at 10:49:35

at least some of it depends upon where you are.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by dmj13 on 11/12/12 at 12:32:36

Just bumping this thread to see if anyone else has Jardine tuning experience. I've been working out some issues brought on, at least partially, by trying to do things quick instead of right. I got them sorted out and this is where I am at as of today:

-Took the bike over to a buddy's house and had him weld the Jardine to the header pipe. I didn't want to weld it initially, as an aftermarket pipe, but I was not sealing it any other way. Looks good right now- no noticable leaks at header or muffler/header joints.
- After trying a couple things: currently at a 55 pilot, 1/2 spacer, and 152.5 main jet, 2 turns (approximate) out on idle mix screw. I've got a noticable increase in power and change in power band. So much so that at times I felt like I had another gear- but top-end aside the major improvement is in low/mid-range.
- Backfires have significantly decreased, but still have occasional backfire on decel from around 1/4 throttle. Going to try dropping down to 1/4 spacer and see if it goes away. First, I am going to tape and mark my throttle/throttle housing and see if I can nail down where the lean mix is more specifically. Backfires decrease to almost none with choke out to the first notch. That tells me it HAS to be a lean mix in the idle/midrange circuit. Ideas?
- I HAVE CAUSED a shut-off afterfire which did not exist before. Not sure what that is about. Hopefully it will resolve with additional spacer mod. Or I don't have the idle mix tuned right.
- Raptor Petcock is installed, and I am running a Uni foam filter. I need to double check the seal at the vacuum ine after replacing the petcock. Right now it is a tube filled with sealant, doubled over and zip-tied shut. Not sure if an incomplete seal there could be causing issues.

I live in San Antonio. I don't know what altitude I am at, but today reflects the info above, and it was cool and clear in the 50s and low 60s F.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by BOBD on 11/12/12 at 13:36:45

I have a Jardine with 145 main jet and 55 pilot jet, don't know what you are talking about as far as spacers go. I have the air/fuel mixture out 4 turns and no backfiring except sometimes when I shut it off, just a little fart though. I'm at 1000 ft.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by gdrseeker on 11/12/12 at 14:35:39

I have a Jardine Muffler welded on so there are no leaks. It has the stock air box.

I am at 4500 Feet.

Running stock spacer on the needle and 145 Main Jet with 55 Pilot Jet. 1.5 turns out on the air fuel mix screw. I only get a little crackle no popping on deceleration and a small puff on shutoff unless Idle for 15 or 20 sec before shutting off then no poof at all.

I think I have mine dialed in great at the moment and I think it depends on the bike the altitude the temperature humidity etc. just gota mess with it and see. I was able to do all my re jetting while still having the carb attached to the bike just dropping the float bowl. it wasn't that hard I adjusted and swapped jets multiple times to find what worked.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by 07s40scotty on 11/12/12 at 19:12:05

Mine is jetted as stated above. As I'm sure you know the afterfire is caused by unburned fuel' When you let off the throttle you are running rich for a second & this unburnt fuel is ignited in your pipe by the heat and carbons in there. You have a open pipe that lets the system breathe better. The slight afterfire is normal on decel... if you hate it give it a slight throttle (enuf to satisfy the bike) without speeding up.

Check your plug to see how it looks. Rich. lean, or a nice cream color?
Your air mixture screw may need a better fine tuning ::)

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by verslagen1 on 11/12/12 at 19:32:52

684E414E5052680F0B3B0 wrote:

you should go up a size... after 3 turns the spring and o-ring that hold it in place get a little weak.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by 07s40scotty on 11/12/12 at 19:39:16

this is serowbots- lots of great info...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1309246277

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by dmj13 on 11/12/12 at 19:53:06

Thanks all. I've read up on the carb tuning posts several times and have worked on car carbeurators before. I feel very comfortable with the theory, I'm just surpised at that I still seem to be running lean at the low end with a half spacer mod and 55 pilot installed. Just gathering anecdotal info to double check myself.
honestly, if I had a garage instead of a parking lot to do the work in this wouldn't be nearly the hassle. I'm trying to save work at this point :P

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by LANCER on 11/13/12 at 03:48:38

The spacer mod on the needle controls the 1/4-3/4 throttle range while the pilot circuit controls idle to 1/4. There is some crossover effect of course but these are primary.
It is the pilot circuit that is the prime cause of backfiring when it is running lean, followed by an air leak in the exhaust system, so assuming the exhaust is air tight and if there is still backfiring when you have a #55 pilot jet and you have adjusted it all the way to 3 turns out, then you need to go up to a 57.5 pilot and readjust the pilot screw. If that does not solve the backfiring problem then you must assume that you have crud inside the carb and it's time ti dissemble and clean every single tiny passageway in it.

Title: Re: Re jetting w/Jardine Muffler?
Post by dmj13 on 11/13/12 at 04:56:40

I am going to tape the throttle and throttle body off today and mark them so I can get a solid idea of where the backfire is happening. Just by feel and eyeballs, though, I think the backfires are happening on decel from around 1/4 throttle, which is why I am hoping knocking the spacer down to a 1/4 equivalent will do the trick.