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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> wont start, different issue /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1291515249 Message started by greenmonster on 12/04/10 at 18:14:09 |
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Title: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/04/10 at 18:14:09 Okay, so I've got an 86 savage. I love the girl but I'm getting ready to put a bullet into one of us. In the last couple months I've replaced the voltage regulator because the battery was barely seeing a voltage differential when I had the bike rev'd way higher than I would normally put it while riding. That got it some better but I think that I'd done too much damage to the battery from flat lining it too many times. I still wasn't seeing as much juice after having swapped the regulator as I had expected so I retested the magneto, the readings that I got were 107, 104, and 98. I know that the Clymer says that they should all be over 100 but I figured that 98 wasn't that far under and that it was probably just a bad wire... I learned better. I week or two after this I had some moron cab driver bolt out in front of me and I slammed on the brakes to avoid hitting him. I don't know exactly why but the bike stalled and when I went to start it again, still rolling, I got some absolutely horrible sounds. Like grinding gears. I pulled over and she wouldn't start, just gave me a free spinning sound when I hit the starter. I managed to run start her to get home but she hasn't started since. Since the starter engages I knew it wasn't that so I pulled off the left side of the crankcase to reveal a wonderful collection of missing teeth on the starter driven sprocket. I shouldn't actually call them missing, I found them all deposited either stuck to the rotor or else sitting in the bottom of the crankcase. The inside of the rotor is marred and the stator is definately on its last legs. Since I've accounted for all the teeth I'm not worried about chunks of metal circulating through guts of my bike. I've replaced the damaged gear and put the old girl back together again. Put in a brand new battery and had the hopes of going for a quick ride in the cool sunlight today. I hit the starter button and it spun a couple times (I'm pretty sure that I heard a chuff but that could have been wishful thinking) before it stopped. And by stopped I mean, ther is no engine noise, I hear the decompression switch and the starter solinoid go and then the headlight dims and the neutral light fades almost out. I've pulled the starter again, thinking that perhaps that could be the culprit. It fires over nicely. I tried to run start it but as soon as I let the clutch out the back tire locks up. I know that I'm missing something, or that I must have put something back together improperly but I can't see it cause I'm too close to the issue. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I know you guys have a wealth of information because I've solved a lot of other issues just from watching the forum and searching before. Thanks in advance. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Serowbot on 12/04/10 at 18:32:54 Make sure that the decomp is actually pulling the lever enough to raise the valve?.... |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Routy on 12/05/10 at 06:45:22 Others could tell you better, but seems like a push start could be very tricky because you'd have to hit the starter button at precisely the exact second that you dump the clutch, so that the compression is released on the very first revolution ?? At any rate, sounds like a compression release problem,.......not speaking of your charging problem. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/10 at 09:34:12 If the neutral light is going out, then it's the battery and you'll never get it started. Voltage to the CDI has to be at least 10 v or it won't fire. There are several ways to do a push start. I do a starter aided push start. This procedure is for a stock bike with all of the safeties working. The starter will cut out anytime the clutch is released. We are going to use that to our advantage to get the decomp activated, and the engine rotating before we let out the clutch and letting the bikes motion take over the turning of the engine to start it. 1. Prep the bike as usual to start. 2. Put it in 1st gear, remember this is starter aided. 3. Run it up to as fast as you can go, I'm old and gimpy so don't give me any sh!t about it's too hard. 4. Hop on, push the starter button as it start to turn the engine over release the clutch. It will chug a couple of times as the battery recovers from the starter drain then it will fire up. In 1st gear at about 5mph give or take a few, the starter will turn the engine at about the same speed. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/10 at 09:40:27 Busted teeth issue, this is a common problem with the pre'90's bikes but never with the later bikes. Why, cause they added a torque limiter to the gear train. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1288911670 |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by feelinjunky on 12/05/10 at 09:56:31 Yea, I would make sure the battery isn't the problem. It may be "brand new" but if it's been sitting on the shelf a long time, it needs to be charged. Hook it up to your car battery and if it doesn't start, you know the battery isn't the problem. OR just charge your new battery until it stops drawing current from the charger. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/05/10 at 17:10:47 I'm pretty sure it's not the battery. When I said brand new I meant, I put the acid in myself and charged it for the day before I tried anything. I'm going to go try verslagen1's push assisted start. Though I'm not sure how well it will work since the tire locked up when I tried doing a run start with it before, and the starter doesn't seem to be doing anything. But I'm a long way from flat out refusing to try something. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/10 at 17:23:53 brand new bad batteries aren't rare. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/05/10 at 17:29:14 So, I've tried the push start. When I push the starter it behaves the same as sitting still, dims the lights. When I let the clutch out in 1st and 2nd gear it locks up the back tire and that's the end of it. I know I was going fast enough to start it if it were just the battery because I've had to do that several times before. Tried it in 3rd and 4th, with expected results. Nothing happened electrically other than the lights dimming. The only real difference was that the wheel didn't lock just slowed me quickly. I took some readings on the battery just so that we could get that out of the way as an issue. 12.6V that dropped to 12 when I turned the ignition switch into the on position. This dropped to about 6 when I pushed the starter. Then returned when I stopped pushing the starter. There's no way that I could have messed up the timing while replacing the starter sprocket is there? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/05/10 at 17:56:37 I don't think it's possible to mess up the timing unless you've mixed pre 90 and post 90 parts. If it's locking up in all gears and with the starter, I suspect the decomp adjustment or if it's working at all. other possibility is a short. You can operate the lever manually although it is hard. Other possibility but you've kinda ruled it out. There's a washer that likes to get on the wrong shaft when you put the stator cover back on. this will jamb up the starter. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Serowbot on 12/05/10 at 17:57:31 Pull the spark plug,.. and see how it cranks... If'n it cranks good like that, look into the decomp system... |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Max_Morley on 12/05/10 at 17:57:44 If the battery goes to 6 V when you push the starter you have either; 1- a bad battery or 2- a dead short to ground when the starter circuit is engaged. Neither is good. The starter itself it a dead short or almost until it starts spinning and creating counter emf (voltage) which limits the speed and current flow. If it isn't spinning then you have a problem still, seems like one of the gears can easily be installed inverted in the starter gear train, I know from experience. Do you have Greg's Savage CD as the directions and pictures are on that? OE Manual may show it also. Max |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Routy on 12/05/10 at 18:01:52 Wow, if voltage is dropping to 6, you either have a dead battery, or a bad battery, or a starter motor w/ a dead short, or an engine or starter that is froze or locked up. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/05/10 at 18:34:04 I'm going to pull the plug to see if it'll crank, tomorrow after work. It's dark now and I don't want to start pulling stuff apart when I can't see anything. I pulled the starter to make sure that it wasn't that. Grounded it with a jumper cable and hit the starter. Spins like a charm. I even stuck my finger in there to see if I could spin the gears myself. They spin no problem one way and wont budge the other way. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/05/10 at 19:50:48 You can get an ammeter that simply sits on a wire, no need to open anything up & hook a meter in series. Theyre cheap, or were, bout 30 years ago when I got mine. Seeing the current flow will help, otherwise, Id haul the battery to a store that will test it. Its easy enough for a battery to not hold its voltage under load. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Routy on 12/06/10 at 06:18:27 Ever heard the phrase,..."If you lived here, you'd be home now" Well here it is,....."if you had a batt load tester, you wouldn't be wondering right now ! If people only knew how much they would (could) use a battery load tester, even the cheap 50 amp from HF, they would run right down and get one,.....or buy it on line......wouldn't they ? Tool List you will never be sorry you bought.....if you are mech-tech minded at all,....... 1- 12v test light 2- digital hand held volt (vom) meter ($3 HF ok, $19-$29 at sears etc much nicer) 3- a continuity checker (a test lite w/ a battery in it that will test bulbs and fuses out of circuit) 4- a batt load tester (50 amp plenty good for smaller batts)(checks charging system also) 5- a couple 16ga jumper wires w/ clip on both ends (for trouble shooting...bypassing switches etc) (caution...for the advanced mech tech only) |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by mornhm - FSO on 12/06/10 at 07:52:49 As several people have pointed out, it sounds like you have a bad battery. Doesn't matter if it is brand new (as I have found out much to my annoyance). If you're trying to start a MC with a bad battery, you are just wasting time. Get a known good battery and try to start it. If then it doesn't start, then start troubleshooting before you drain the battery. Don't try so many starts that you drain the battery before charging it back up. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/06/10 at 13:07:04 yeah, first thing I'm going to do when I get home is to see if I can jump it from my car. if that doesn't work then I think we can rule out the battery as the problem. btw routy, I have all of that stuff minus the load tester. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/06/10 at 17:06:26 okay, I can safely rule out the battery. Hooking up the car battery it did exactly the same thing. My suroundings where quieter this time and I noticed that I can hear the starter engaging and then when I release the switch it lets go. It's as if the starter simply doesn't have the torque to spin the gears over. which leads me to think compression. Anyone have any other thoughts? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/10 at 17:29:44 Quick check for the starter washer, ok this will be messy. loosen the stator cover, back 'em all off, then try the starter. Not sure this will work, but if the washer is in the wrong place, it may. much easier just to drain the oil or tip it to one side, take the cover off and inspect. The washers go on the gear with 2 different sizes. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/06/10 at 17:39:26 Are you sure that the 86 is supposed to have that? I just pulled up the microfiche and I don't see any washers on there. More importantly, there wasn't one there when I pulled it apart. Though that doesn't mean that there wasn't one there before I bought the bike. edit: I pulled up the fiche for a 2002 and that guy has a few different bits in the starter clutch. guess that came in with the torque limiter? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/10 at 18:02:00 '86 washers, no I'm not, they are for US'95 or later though. But if it's bound up, loosening up the cover will let you know. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Max_Morley on 12/06/10 at 18:28:28 FYI 86 that my B-i-L has was able to be started by applying a battery charger on start mode directly to the starter lug. Not recommended but that is how the seller got it started to prove that it would run prior to completing the sale. So in my experience compression will not prevent a working starter from cranking the engine. When you did the bump start you did jump on the seat before popping the clutch I hope, otherwise the back tire will slide for sure. Can you turn the engine over with a socket on the bolt under the inspection cover on the LH (Alternator) side. It goes the same direction as the rear wheel, not the way the Clymer manual would have you try. Even with the spark plug in you should be able to turn the engine over easily with a 3/8 drive standard socket handle. It will be lumpy as it goes over compression and the alternator magnets attract and repel, but must be free to turn! NOTE!!! This following test only applies if you can get the starter motor to spin the engine. Remember I said that a starter is close to a dead short to ground when it isn't spinning. It has brass brushes and a copper armature and windings so has very little measurable resistance (ohms) to current flow. Do you know how to use your DVOM to do voltage drop testing? If so check both the insulated and ground circuits while the starter is spinning the engine. You night need some extra hands to do this. If you don't know how, here is a quick and dirty explanation. Instead of just checking for applied voltage, VD testing helps to isolate the voltage loss. The meter leads are put in parallel with the circuit to be tested and the circuit energized or put into operation. The reading on the meter will be the voltage difference between the beginning and end of that part of the circuit. So + on the battery + and - on the starter motor stud. Crank and see what you get. Then + on the starter motor case ground and - on the battery -. Should see less than 0.5 V on the insulated side (maximum would be 1.0 V including the solenoid contacts) and 0.1 or 0.2 V on the ground side. This will find wires that have broken stands in them where an ohms test or applied voltage will not. Come back with questions if the test doesn't make sense. Generally we look for less than 0.05 V per connection or wire section. When you include the 2 contacts in the solenoid and the hold in winding that is why we allow more VD in that side. Ideally we want almost the all available voltage from the battery to drop across the motor, not in the circuits or controls. !! AGAIN, it has to spin the engine over to do the above tests. Happy measuring and let us know what you find. Max PS I'd still be leary of the condition of the battery and have it load tested by a parts store or battery shop. It really needs to have at least 12.6 volts open circuit when it is fully charged and not less than about 10 V when cranking, the electronic ignition doesn't like to work at less than 10V applied. Also low state of chrage, or a bad battery will lower the spin speed upping the amps as the counter EMF is less. Probably more than you ever wanted to know about starter systems. It is the old auto teacher in me slipping out. max |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/06/10 at 21:08:19 Quote:
The more knowledge I have the better so there is no such thing as more than I ever wanted to know. I want to thank everyone who has offered me any kind of help. I don't have it fixed yet but I'll continue to keep everyone in the loop. Verslagen1, I pulled the starter and spun the gears with my finger. That should mean that it's not bound up... at least in that direction. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/06/10 at 22:29:42 233621212A292B2A37302136440 wrote:
I think you're right about that. I'd check the engine, take off the timing port a turn it with 17mm socket. Hey how many miles? I hope it's not your cam chain. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/07/10 at 06:56:26 32,200km I think that's about 20,000 miles. What are the symptoms of a cam chain going? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/07/10 at 07:17:28 won't start Usually preceded by sudden stop maybe a loud noise sometimes chain scraping, most often tapping by the oil filter cover. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/07/10 at 07:39:40 well, it wont start. There wasn't a sudden stop. no loud noises, and I don't remember chain scraping sounds. I wish I could remember what the measurement was when I was working on that side. I really wasn't planning on doing the cam chain mods just yet. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/07/10 at 11:19:13 Well, at least it's been looked at... and doesn't look like this... http://www.savageriders.com/verslagen/CamChainClub/busted.jpg |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/07/10 at 14:26:24 Wow, that looks nasty! No, it most certainly didn't look that bad. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/07/10 at 14:33:52 That's 22mm out. Typically, it wobbles up and down til it taps on the case. sometimes it goes side to side. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/07/10 at 17:55:52 Max, I wasn't able to get the plug on the left hand crankcase cover off. Seems to be set in there pretty tightly. I'll see if I can make some kind of tool to take it off while I'm in the shop tomorrow. Otherwise, it's starting to look like I'm draining the oil and pulling to cover off, again. I hate working on my bike outside in the winter. I have about 10 minutes when I get home before it's too dark to see anything I may have dropped. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by mick on 12/07/10 at 19:08:41 3F2A3D3D363537362B2C3D2A580 wrote:
bring the bike into the kitchen,or the living room. That's what I would do,I used to put christmas lights on mine. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/07/10 at 21:13:16 There are some inexpensive worklights at the Big Box stores. I got a short tripod with 2 500 watt lamps on it for about 20 bux, The downside is the lamps dont last & cost about 6 bux apiece. But, knowing what I know about them, Id buy it again if I just really needed some light. Plenty of lighting options out there, extension cords arent hard to land,,Temporary shelter, not a problem,, a tarp to work on, instead of just dirt, 5 dollars will get a tarp, a layer of cardboard, just because theres no building doesnt mean the only option is the raw outdoors. If I could find a tent for real cheap, big enough,,, well,, |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/07/10 at 21:54:05 grand ideas, all of them. However, I like being married so the bike doesn't get to come inside. ;) And sadly, I live in a townhouse, the bike shares a single parking spot under the sundeck with my car. I usually do any work on it at the shop I work in. Plenty of room, all the tools I need, or at least the machines to make the tools I need. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/07/10 at 23:13:01 Where do you live? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/07/10 at 23:17:15 Vancouver, BC |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/08/10 at 07:15:49 Ohh, well, working outside with no wind block should be no big deal then,, CRIPES!! Id Have to have some kinda wall to get behind. I hate the cold, I hate the cold IT HURTS my body.. You can have my share. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Max_Morley on 12/08/10 at 17:11:06 The edge of a used (or new) front brake pad does a pretty good job of fitting the slot in the crank bolt cover. Others have used a couple of washers to get the correct thickness to fill the slot and an adjustable end wrench. They may have to be ground some to fit correctly. Good cycle shops will have a 3 armed special tool that is supposed to work, mine needed to be harder as it bent. If you are around aviation folks, they have cowl fasteners (duetz? or something like that) that use a tool that I've ended up using. Think I found it at a garage sale one weekend. Also the tool trucks will have a 3/8 drive tool for adjusting old style (20'-50's) tie rod ends that can be made to fit. A new o ring and a light hand on reassembly will make the next time easier. Sure don't envy you working outside, in the cold and dark as it is much easier to miss the small part that falls down and messes up the job. My tug had both side covers off while still connected to the side car and they both leaked, had the rubber sealing washers on the wrong bolts and a gasket folded over and pinched. I separated them and did the jobs over and no more leaks in 2 years now. I use a Handy bench and provide some cushioning and lay it over so the side I'm working on is facing mostly up so I can properly clean and inspect the sealing surface and it keeps the remaining oil from dripping out. Max |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Digger on 12/11/10 at 21:30:41 Green, Did you ever try letting the starter crank the engine with the spark plug pulled out? If so, what happened? Good luck! |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Digger on 12/11/10 at 21:34:25 5B776E495B79647A736F160 wrote:
As will a little Never-Seize on the plug's threads. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/13/10 at 10:20:26 I pulled the tank this weekend, pulled the plug and the starter still wouldn't move anything. (there goes the compression theory. too bad, it was a good one.) I tried rotating the tire with the plug out to see if the engine was moving at all. I was only able to move the wheel in 3rd and 4th gear. At which point I wasn't able to tell if the motor was turning over the sound of my panting. Still couldn't get the side plug out, I did however begin shaving off chunks of metal and bend the 3/4" washer that I was using. Figuring that I'm going to have to take the side cover off again and see if there is something messed up on the starter clutch I drained the oil again and that's when I ran out of daylight. Stupid sun. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Bubba on 12/13/10 at 12:29:07 Green, I'd be very interested in what you find. It sounds like the same thing I'm running into except that now I've pulled the engine and I'm working on some stripped bolts on the head cover. I did notice that when looking at the ronayers.com fiche it looks like the washers go on the limiter and mine has only one washer on the starter gear. I think someone put it back together wrong and the gears are binding against the side cover...I think versy suggested that may be happening... |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/13/10 at 12:41:51 unfortunately the 86 doesn't have the torque limiter that has those washers. I think that may have come in around the time that they started putting in the elusive 5th gear. which I think, i could be wrong, was in 95 or 96. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Bubba on 12/13/10 at 12:44:25 Yes, mine is a '97. I'd still be interested in what you find...because it sure sounds like what I'm running into... :( |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/18/10 at 12:57:53 The fun and games continue. I've pulled everything apart again. When I first pulled the cover off the Starter Driven gear spun freely clockwise but wouldn't go counter clockwise. IRC that's correct, can anyone tell me if that's true? Also, I've taken the sparkplug out, hoping that I'd be able to turn the motor by hand/wrench, but I wasn't able to turn the rotor in either direction. Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated before I start putting it all back together. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/18/10 at 13:09:51 The starter clutch gear should turn the engine CCW, same way the wheels rotate to go forward. And freewheel CW. So it sounds right. Not being able to rotate with the sparkplug out sounds bad. take the clutch cover off, I'm going to cover me eyes. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/18/10 at 13:16:03 well, part of the reason that it wouldn't rotate CCW with a wrench is because the bolt kept coming undone instead of turning the engine. So it may not be that bad. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/18/10 at 15:30:26 Got the clutch cover off. Other than the fact that nothing will move it doesn't look like anything is wrong. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Max_Morley on 12/18/10 at 16:33:10 I think it is time to go back and revisit the first message. Had to jam on the brakes when a car pulled out in front of me. Not sure if it did it did spin after replacing the stripped gear. All teeth broken off were accounted for! Now the engine won't turn over, is so tight the rotor bolt loosens. Can you rock it back and forth even a tiny bit? I guess I'd start by double checking the missing tooth count and make sure one isn't stuck to a rotor magnet and jammed in the stator part. Also I think I read you were in the clutch side also, if so could something have not gone back together correctly there. Undo what you did one step at a time until the the engine is free. Max |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/18/10 at 18:54:11 Max, I've triple checked the tooth count that are missing and that I have. It balances out. It was the first thing that I checked. I've undone everything that I did. Even without the rotor on I can't spin the engine. So with the rotor still sitting beside the bike I took off the clutch cover today and there doesn't appear to be anything jamming up that side. Simply put everything looks fine it's just not moving. It is looking like I'll need to do the tension mod soon though, I guess I have to look on the bright side, I wont have to rip anything apart for routine maintainence for a while... |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Max_Morley on 12/19/10 at 13:19:14 Look in the manual for other gear drive parts where something could be jammed. clutch drive/driven gears, balancer gear set. and worst case scenario would be something in the transmission broke during the lock up stop. I don't remember any other posts regarding a like problem so I think that is a very low odds possibility. A little nagging thought in the back of m head wonders about the possibility of the cam being seized in the head or a valve being open and the piston up against it. I know you are working outside, but maybe a peek with a good bright flashlight down the spark plug hole would lend some light. Max |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/20/10 at 10:16:23 Your thoughts seem to be running the same way as mine. I've taken off the clutch cover to see if something is binding in there but I can't see anything. I'm starting to think that I'm going to be pulling the head off next. I just really don't like the idea of doing that outside. When I looked down through the spark plug hole I was able to see the piston, that should mean that it's not the item binding. shouldn't it? What's the standard measurement for the cam chain tensioner? I know it's on the site in a dozen places but I'm already typing this up so... My tensioner seems to be out a fair peice but it's still solid with no slop. (then again, that describes my crank shaft right now too. ) |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/21/10 at 09:11:55 667364646F6C6E6F72756473010 wrote:
The fact that you can see the piston doesn't mean it's not what is causing the bind. As you can't see the rings. I bought my 2nd savage with a burnt piston. Fellow said he was riding along and it just stopped on him. Wouldn't start, wouldn't turn over. After it cooled off was able to start it, but damage had been done, knocked real bad. Another case I heard was more of a complete seizer. He sprayed penetrating oil in to free the piston and was able to turn over. Don't remember what he did with it after that. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk182/motobuddha/76ab1950.jpg 18mm is the recommended limit, but you can go out to 22mm. But you will need to replace everything. And further than that and you're replacing an engine. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/21/10 at 09:55:53 *sigh* I'm in that range. What parts am I going to have to replace there as well? I'm at work right now so I don't have my clymer to check what all will need replacing. Any suggestions as to where I should be picking things up? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 12/21/10 at 10:07:38 A chain and guides or a verslavy. But I'd wait till you figured out the cause of the freeze. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/31/10 at 11:40:13 okay, finally some daylight to work on Nessy! I pulled the clutch and the gear off the crank to see if there was something binding in there. Nothing. Managed to get some rotation by turning the crank, top-backwards. It catches in a couple places but for the most part rolls fairly smoothly, problem is... can't rotate it top forward. I'm also pretty concerned about the smooth, smooth, catch, smooth, catch, catch, smooth smooth smooth, catch that I'm getting when I turn it. Anyone have any ideas or am I resigned to pulling Nessy's heart out and taking a look inside? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/31/10 at 12:44:53 If youve got the plug out & its in neutral, the olny load youre fighting is the cam coming up on the valve springs. Maybe loosening off the adjusters would let you feel only the piston going up & down the bore. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 12/31/10 at 13:03:49 That's what I figured. Turning it backwards I have very little resistance, nothing more than I would expect (other than the catches). Forward, it's like pushing against a brick wall. My absolutely amazing, loving, spectacularly beautiful wife :-* has suggested that I can pull the engine and work on it in the living room! :o I should be able to finally get somewhere with this now. Any suggestions for things that I should be concidering upgrading while I have it ripped apart? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/31/10 at 13:21:19 If you want Mo POwer, get a cam. I have one of the Special Order cam chains Im looking to sell, new, been soaking in a jar of oil since the day I got it. & I have a Supertrapp w 14 disks Im lookin to sell.. |
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Title: Your bike should never look like this Post by greenmonster on 01/15/11 at 18:36:06 So, I found what was wrong with it! Turns out that even though I had counted all the teeth many times, one managed to slip through darn it! I guess I figured I had enough shrapnel to count for a tooth and I guessed wrong. The tooth managed to jam itself behind the flywheel and ride around a few times before stopping the works completely. Has anyone else had this kind of damage done? If so, what did you do to repair it? I'm currenly going over the innards to make sure that there are no filings in any bearings. I'm thinking of just machining out the ding in the flywheel but I'm a little concerned about the groove in the crankcase. http://i1090.photobucket.com/albums/i369/vibetrippin/Bike%20Rebuild/bikerebuild048.jpg |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/15/11 at 20:43:30 well, that bites. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 01/15/11 at 21:12:53 teeth, bites... booooooooo |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by verslagen1 on 01/15/11 at 21:46:51 lol |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by Max_Morley on 01/16/11 at 15:43:55 If none of the scratch marks are on a critical surface and do not go through the case, I would make sure there are no loose dangles and go for it. It looks like in the picture no very much metal was removed. Max |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/16/11 at 21:52:02 I think it would be a good idea to make sure the seal is running straight across the shaft & not at an angle. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 01/17/11 at 10:21:22 Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Can you explain it some more to me? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/11 at 16:07:00 Mmkay, got a seal with a shaft running thru it, If the seal isnt running at 90 degrees to the shaft, the shaft is wiping across the seal surface instead of running in it. The further from straight, the faster the wear on the seal. Also, if you take a seal & set it at an angle to the shaft its supposed to seal, its actually working on an ellipse, instead of a circle, making it tight in 2 places. Just make sure the plate that holds the seal is straight across. At least, as much as possible. |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by greenmonster on 01/18/11 at 07:39:49 Okay, now I see why I was confused. I think. Are you talking about the bearing where the crankshaft comes through the left hand side of the crankcase? Or is there a seal somewhere that I'm not looking? |
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Title: Re: wont start, different issue Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/18/11 at 12:36:42 Heck, I thot I was Looking at a seal location. |
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