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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> no sparky /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1289334926 Message started by Bubba on 11/09/10 at 12:35:26 |
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Title: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/09/10 at 12:35:26 I need some opinions about the project bike I'm working on. I have torn it down to pretty much the frame and engine. I never did get spark to the plug. Tested the coil for resistance, pulled the stator cover and looked for disconnected anything..., put a known good battery in and still nothing. So I'm at the point now where I'm trying to decide if I should pull the engine out and work on the stripped head bolt I have and then fix the head cover plug to fix the oil leaks that the bike obviously has... OR I was thinking I would take some parts (one at a time) off my running bike to troubleshoot the no spark condition and fix that first. I'd probably try the coil first then the CDI then the soleniod. The only thing is, I don't want to fry any of my good parts and is that even a possibility? I'm leaning towards just yanking the engine since it needs it anyway and then when I'm ready to get it back together I can tackle the no sparky situation. :-/ Any thoughts would be welcome thx |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Yonuh Adisi on 11/09/10 at 14:52:16 I would suggest doing the engine work you described first. Who knows, while you are taking it out you might find a previously hidden reason why there is no spark. If you don't, then you know at least you have a good engine and then you can concentrate on chasing down the no spark problem. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Serowbot on 11/09/10 at 15:24:49 I would do the opposite... Try, one at a time... the questionable parts,... on your running bike... ...seems like that would be more definitive... |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/09/10 at 16:55:39 thanks guys...so take the suspect part, put it on the good bike and then try it? I hadn't thought of that!!! ;D Any chance I'd fry something in the process? I was thinking that Yonuh's method might be the way to go but I'd really like to see if I can find sparky before I tear the whole darn thing down... thx |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Serowbot on 11/09/10 at 17:52:18 Being that you know your good running bike is wired correctly,... I think you're less likely to burn anything out testing parts on it, than putting good parts on the other bike... ... if all the parts show good,.. then you have to look in to a wiring misstep on your project bike... |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/16/10 at 08:21:17 OK I took Serowbot's suggestions and started pulling some parts off the project to try in my running bike. First I pulled the ignition coil, installed it on the good bike - Sparky! Then I pulled the CDI and tried that - Sparky!, Then I pulled the Soleniod (under the seat and man was it a pain to get to on the working bike w/o removing everything) and tried it - Sparky! So now I've tried most of what I thought could be wrong and they all show a good spark on the running bike. I'm wondering what the heck could be wrong. All the lights work, the engine tries to turn over but I get no spark? If the starter were bad wouldn't it still spark? Could it possibly be a short? Does the alternator go bad? the Rectifier??? Could it be because timing is way off??? I'm at a loss when it comes to troubleshooting electrical stuff. BTW, I'm suspecting I get no spark when I try to pop start it??? help... :( |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Yonuh Adisi on 11/16/10 at 08:52:50 Check wire that go to voltage rectifier. Happened to me once, it would crank and all the lights would work but it wouldn't fire up. Found that my drive belt had been rubbing against the wires and damaged them. Repaired the wires and it fired right up. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/16/10 at 08:58:13 Thanks Yonuh. I have a sickening feeling that I'm going to be following every wire down on this thing. I was actually hoping that one of the components I mentioned was bad so I could just replace it. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by justin_o_guy2 on 11/16/10 at 22:00:06 Troubleshooting technique. The Half Split Method is what we were taught. You know where the 12 V starts on a wire, put V ON the wire, if you use a battery charger to keep your battery from getting beat up, thats cool, but go look for the +12 V where its supposed to be. If not there, check the diagram & go look about 1/2 way from source. If there, go back toward the end, where you want the 12 V. if not, then move on toward the source. Axcellent spot for a trouble light, You clip it onto a ground & poke the needle into a wire..cheap & easy to use. Check your grounds before you ever go looking. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/18/10 at 07:29:25 so last night (for the heck of it) I took the battery and clamped jumpers from the neg side to the frame and the pos side directly to the starter (with lots of sparks!)...nothing. Is the starter dead? I know I read that it's supposed to spin the starter up but there was a whole lot of nothing there. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by verslagen1 on 11/18/10 at 08:27:15 spark plug removed? The issue may be that it came up on compression, that will stop the starter. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/18/10 at 08:40:13 Spark plug was not removed. I had a spare plug clamped to the engine block and attached to the spark plug boot but still had the plug in the bike. If I take the starter off the bike and perform the same test it should spin yes? |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Arnold on 11/18/10 at 08:42:45 The starter will spin as long as it gets 12v. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by verslagen1 on 11/18/10 at 08:45:28 221502020151505853600 wrote:
Si |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/18/10 at 08:59:45 Thanks all...I'm gonna get this thing to work if it takes ALL winter... ;) |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by youzguyz on 11/18/10 at 10:54:30 I thought is was turning over?? motor spinning, whatever. If that does NOT happen then you don't get a spark, no matter WHAT. Motor has to spin for magneto to send a signal to the CDI to create a spark. So, your problem isn't "no sparky". It is "no spinny". right? So confused.. :-/ |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/18/10 at 11:52:54 Well that's what I'm guessing. I know the engine turns because I've turned the flywheel over and can feel the piston pumping in there. I would think that I should have been able to pop start it because of that but was never able to. The PO had stated that they took the stator cover off and maybe did something "in there". That's the only clue I have that the magneto may be at fault here... I pulled that cover off a couple weeks ago and all the connections looked good so I put it back together. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by verslagen1 on 11/18/10 at 12:48:12 There you go, found the problem of 'no spinney' There's a couple of washers on the starter idle gears. People usually put them in the wrong spots when they put it back together. I think they go on the spur gear. check the manual. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/18/10 at 12:53:13 I'll give that a shot... I still plan to pull the starter out and try to get it spinning just to be sure. If it spins then I'll have to wait until after t-day when we visit my folks in Springfield, MO to try an crack it open and check the starter gears. Thanks for the suggestions! |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/18/10 at 19:58:23 Just finished pulling the starter out...battery neg ground to frame, pos directly to the starter...nada, nothing zilch not even any sparks shooting off or anything. Does anyone have a spare lying around they want to sell? |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 11/19/10 at 15:28:56 my bad...starter works fine (didn't have it grounded properly :P), after Thanksgiving I'll pull the stator cover and see if the starter gears are screwy |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by fsmidt on 12/28/10 at 16:12:42 any progress? |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 12/29/10 at 07:07:02 It depends on what you call progress... ;) Anyway, as far as the spark goes I'm hoping things pan out when I have the engine back in. Two of the head cover bolts were stripped when I bought it. I thought I'd try to get something working without removing the head but it just was becoming a pain so I took the head off and purchased a 6mm helicoil set. I still need to install the helicoils....maybe tonight. Once it's buttoned back up and installed back in the frame I'll work on sparky again. As stated above, the washers on the spur gear are most likely why it wasn't spinning up. The outer washer for the spur gear looks as if it was put on the outside of the starter gear. The spur gear has a kind of lip with teeth on the outside edge. I'm suspecting that that may have been binding against the side cover but that is just a guess... :-? BTW, I've been thinking that I might get a gasket kit for this thing since I now have it all apart. I'd like some opinions as to whether it would be necessary. I really just want to get it running and sell it but don't want it leaking oil again. The existing gaskets seem fine. ALSO, I have permatex red sealer...would that work on the head cover??? thx |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by verslagen1 on 12/29/10 at 09:02:07 http://www.permatex.com/documents/GasketMakerSelector.pdf That's what I'm going with this time. But key is to follow instructions. apply a bead, put the cover in place, install the bolts to finger tight only, let it take a set, then torque down. This makes sure you don't squeeze it all out before you torque it down. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 12/29/10 at 09:55:42 Thanks Vers! what about reusing the existing gaskets on the side covers and head? |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by verslagen1 on 12/29/10 at 17:45:45 Reusing gaskets is possible, but ask yourself do you want to tear it down to replace it. Side covers, no problem, reuse, I do all the time. Cylinder base, no way! |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 12/30/10 at 06:29:26 Thanks again. The head is already off but the gasket looks fine. The cylinder base hasn't been touched. I figure after it gets torqued down the head gasket will be plenty tight...am I wrong? I know clymers says to discard it but it's not cheap! |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by justin_o_guy2 on 12/30/10 at 08:03:07 Ditch it. New head gaskets, only. I cant think of an engine that will allow reusing a head gasket. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by verslagen1 on 12/30/10 at 08:34:53 425D5B5C41467747774F5D511A280 wrote:
+1 Absolutely, didn't even think to mention it. |
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Title: Re: no sparky Post by Bubba on 12/30/10 at 08:44:55 Okay guys, I'll replace it. I googled it and it pretty much sounds as if replacing is a must! Thx |
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