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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> LS650 kick start conversion /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1287931251 Message started by Ben Jones on 10/24/10 at 07:40:51 |
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Title: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Ben Jones on 10/24/10 at 07:40:51 Hey guys! I a lil 86 s40 bobber im workin on right now and im tryin to keep it old school as possible. I heard its possible to use some sort of BMW shaft to convert to kickstart? Anyone have any info on this>? |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by verslagen1 on 10/24/10 at 07:57:28 do a search and you find all the info. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Ben Jones on 10/24/10 at 08:08:34 382B3C3D222F292B207F4E0 wrote:
ive done searches and cant find the info.....help :o |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by verslagen1 on 10/24/10 at 08:46:26 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1274281307/0 |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Oldfeller on 10/24/10 at 09:14:15 Each new generation of newbies tries to put a turbo on the Savage and then tries to put a kickstarter on it .... And it ain't even spring time yet !!! |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Charon on 10/24/10 at 09:15:33 You need the battery anyway for the electronic ignition. The starter motor is visually less obtrusive than a kick starter. If you really want old school, remember that the first motorcycles were either push-started, or pedalled like bicycles. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Ben Jones on 10/24/10 at 09:46:40 thanks for calling me a newb. kickstarters are cool. something about em. the feeling of kickin over the bike and hearing the motor start up gives me the goosebumps. pushing a button makes me feel like im drivin a prius or something. and no im not gonna turbo it. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Edgar on 10/24/10 at 10:05:55 Don't take it personal dude. I've been here a handful of months and I'm still a newb! But you'll see what they mean, about once a month someone asks your question and to my knowledge (which isn't great) no one has followed through with it. So it'd be cool to see if you do it! How bout some pics of your bobber in progress |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Ben Jones on 10/24/10 at 10:28:22 i guess ill post some pics, nothing special yet http://i415.photobucket.com/albums/pp236/yourfuneral/bikedelivery2.jpg i just started working on it. ive got a small fortune in parts and some repairs i need to do: fork seals and head are leakin oil. as far as parts im about to toss on it: chopper shox 2 shock seat pan system avon white wall tires harley sportster peanut tank BlueCollar bobbers '59 caddy lights front and rear chain conversion 17/45 ratio Blue collars drag pipe kit and exaust wrap custom intake/stack 4" risers hardtail lowering struts( till i get the time to do a real hardtail on it) 155 jet kit raptor petcock drag bars lil black spider web mirror and a whole lot of paint. im gonna powercoat the rims red and the spokes black power coat the frame a burnt orange/rust color pinstripe the tank up and maybe some on the fenders rebuild a spare motor and get a custom ground cam/crank and open the cylinder wall a lil bit more. i know its just a savage and im probably puttin more time and effort into it then i should, but i miss my BSA lightening that got jacked and this is a cheap alternative. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Phelonius on 10/24/10 at 10:49:06 42544E495D4E555E495A57090B0B033B0 wrote:
ive done searches and cant find the info.....help :o[/quote] That's cause one does not exist for the S-40 or Savage 650. Anywhere. Phelonius |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/24/10 at 11:14:26 Its been kicked around several times.. Simply aint gonna happen. Poke the start button & ride, |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by photojoe on 10/24/10 at 11:17:34 Back in the daze, I had a '72 Sportster that featured both kick and electric start. Yeah, I'll admit that there was something really cool about kicking her over to fire her up 8-) |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by hooter on 10/24/10 at 11:21:10 Have you ever kick a 650 and had it cough ???? you limp away,,, |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Oldfeller on 10/24/10 at 11:21:29 Here now, we are gonna synopsize all the super hop up data for the Savage LS650 and all S40 versions done to date. The more you hop it up, the less reliable it becomes. You can hop it up to the point it won't run but for a week or so in a row. We call bikes like these the "Frankenstein" family of Savages. We make jokes about them, even as we admire their chutzpa and severe mods. Trick is to stop short of that Frankie point, to preserve reliability, road-ability and functionality. ;D ;D ;D ;D Now we look forward to seeing this new generation of Frankie bikes to see just how far you get and how much money you spend to get there ... Be aware that your creation has to make it to the Dragon Run for the expert part of Dragon week and run all week long to be considered "real". That is your yardstick for reliability. And be aware that we crap out about 1/5 of the bikes that show up each year anyway -- they fail for a variety of reasons, mostly having to do with a lack of good prep and reliability/road-ability. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/25/10 at 13:37:45 I think it all comes down to cost. Ton's of engineering work to shafts, covers and figuring out how to make a kicker clutch and have it fit in the case. Of course, if you like the look, glue one on and tell people you lost weigh and can't kick the apprx 4 inch piston it any longer. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Ed L. on 10/25/10 at 18:39:05 You could go in through the left side cover using the inspection hole. There is the threaded end of the crank right there which would be the logical place to attach the linkage. If you could find something that is adapatable it would be kinda easy to do. Can't say that I would want to be on the receiving end of a 650 kickback, I've a little 250 Ducati that can bring tears to my eyes if I'm not careful kicking it over. If you catch a 650 in a bad mood it could break you leg. He11 it would just be something else that can fall off the bike. :D |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Charon on 10/25/10 at 20:41:56 To add to the sport, it appears the electronic ignition on the S40 has a START signal from the starter switch which retards the spark while the starter is running. This no doubt eliminates kickback to avoid possible starter damage. You might want to implement this, along with the decompressor, to make kick starting somewhat less unpleasant. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Phelonius on 10/25/10 at 20:56:01 Back in the sixties, I had 650 single Panther kick back at me so hard two things happened. The first was that it launched me over the bars head first. Then as I tried to stand my foot was in great pain. Removal of the boot stopped the pain. upon examining the boot, I discovered the steel plate in the arch of the boot was buckled upwards so much I could not get the boot back on. Considering that, do you really think it wise to kick start a 650 single. Incidents like this were one of the primary reasons that 650 singles died out until the invention of the electric starter and its automatic compression release. Phelonius |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by T Mack 1 - FSO on 10/27/10 at 09:50:21 78404D444746415D5B280 wrote:
Ouch..... so the glue a fake one on may be the best over-all option. ;D |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by ncron1103 on 10/27/10 at 22:36:28 5D7E7674777E7E7760120 wrote:
Its something that some people like. everyones different. plus have a bov on a savage would be pretty cool |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Lupo on 10/27/10 at 22:50:32 The kick start is dead in the water but Oldfeller is braindead if he can't see how the LS is a perfect project for a turbo. In fact the 4 speed would be preferable and the low compression is just right while being a single the exhaust/intake is simple dumb! But what do I know? |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Oldfeller on 10/27/10 at 23:27:22 Wouldn't nitrous be a little more reasonable path, both cost wise and easy wise? Mind you, what percent increase in power are you trying to achieve anyway? You got 29-30 hp stock (thereabouts) To get a significant increase, you have to tag on 30% extra (10+hp) somehow or it ain't worth doing. Getting exhaust gas flow to get enough boost powering a turbo would be tough due to the interrupted relatively low RPM pulse nature of our exhaust flow. puff puff puff puff puff No extra cylinders firing to make up the pressure gaps, so to speak. That input power side of the turbo is seeing puffs of gas inter-spaced with -- well, nothing. It isn't gonna spin up all that good and the lag effect might be a bit much. I think getting great performance out of a turbo might be harder than you would think, apart from the high cost, all the custom bent stainless exhaust tubing and the maintenance problems. Example -- don't turbos require a good flow of high pressure oil for their turbo bearings to survive? How many PSI do you think you have available at idle for oil pressure on a Savage? Something like 1-2 psi. How much oil pressure does your proposed turbo's bearings require again? ========================== Getting your 30% from nitrous would be straight forward enough I suppose, but such a large piston top area would have a tough time conducting away all the extra heat (a long long way from piston center to cylinder wall). Fairly large shots of nitrous has been called "playing a blow torch on your spark plug" and allowances must be made for plugs and other heat related matters if you are running a significant charge of nitrous. Still, there are ceramic piston top coatings that could help with piston burn through and there are special spark plugs available for nitrous use. Alcohol and water injected with the charge can actually calm the blow torch effect to a very large degree, required if going over a mild nitrous charge on a big single like ours I would judge. Spark voltage can be an issue with nitrous if you have marginal spark power -- nitrous "blows out the spark" as they say. (me, I dunno -- I just read all this stuff in nitrous books at Barnes & Noble as I dream my own little dreams) ========================== Next question would be "when would you want to use this extra power?" So far no full Frankie bike has ever made it to the Dragon after 3 full years of Dragon runs. I got no competition for what I have now. I find I have all the power I need to ever use now, with the Stage 2 cam -- it is always available and it (so far, knock on aluminum) hasn't pushed my bike past the Frankie point into unreliability. When my compression finally gets tired, I can go larger and higher compression on the next piston and start popping the dime for premium gas, until then I burn regular gas and just keep zooming along. Plus there is nothing showing on my bike to scare off a Hurley (bottles and turbos tend to do that you know). Killing Hurleys two at a time on mountain roads is an artform you know, it requires them to ASSume they can catch you relatively easily. They won't try you know, not without thinking you are easy meat and just cranking on down & doing it. Fat old Grandpa riding on a little single cylinder grandma bike -- that's just too tempting to ignore. (and they don't, they go for it) ;D Lastly, my shoulders are starting to go (scraped rotator cuffs and arthritic joints) and it looks like my Hurley baiting days are gonna be numbered by mother nature soon enough anyway. By the time any of you new guys actually put your super scoots together and make it to the Dragon I may be out of the competition anyway due to simple aging. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Serowbot on 10/27/10 at 23:44:15 Buhhhuhhhh..... If I wanted to go that fast,... I'd just crash another Ninja... :-?... |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Oldfeller on 10/27/10 at 23:49:23 Yup, you'd pay a whole lot to soup up a Savage to even get in the sandbox with a SV650 or a Ninja. (you would have to DOUBLE your horsepower output !!!!) |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Lupo on 10/28/10 at 00:18:55 So what if you just feel like playing with a Savage. Wrong? I can go buy a freakin' Hayabusa and do anything or nothing but........that's not the point. You don't get it? The only reason I have a Savage now is because my peers said, Huh? I have always liked doing more with less (except sexually) and that's the challenge. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Lupo on 10/28/10 at 00:25:12 293F28352D38352E5A0 wrote:
I'm calling you out here. We rode a bit and I think I can get the Savage to work right. I'm dialing in the suspension now. Is it working better then most bikes? |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Lupo on 10/28/10 at 00:30:16 0E2D2527242D2D2433410 wrote:
Most guys in the sandbox can't use the toys they have. I really like having an underdog machine so I don't have to hear about what a fast bike I have. It happens anyway but nobody ever wants to swap rides ;) |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Oldfeller on 10/28/10 at 06:50:23 I'm not criticizing your choices, obviously I have investigated the same thoughts and ran them forward into a "choice" to go with nitrous. I even got me a spare engine (nitrous is very very hard on things mechanical). Lancer picked greatly increased displacement and high compression and low weight for his 10+%, he's already bought all his parts and has built his Frankie (several times, as a matter of fact). Thus was born the Frankie Effect correllary -- hop it up enough and it becomes unreliable. So I hang back from my "big shot" nitrous dreams, waiting for a compelling reason to go full Frankie on one engine, keeping me a stock spare engine for when toast happens. So, now you know. Go for it -- then bring your very expensive tricked up bike up to the Dragon run (Verslagen keeps threatening to drive a truck across country with his bike in it -- he can pick you up in Tucson as he drives on through). |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Lupo on 10/28/10 at 09:59:24 The more I look into the turbo idea the more it looks as though I may be eating crow for dinner. The most consistent argument is the singles pulses. It seems you'd have to run a ridicules idle just to keep the engine running. The next obstacle would be cooling the turbo. I'm going to go read through my recipe book now and see what I can do to make crow taste like chicken. |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Trippah on 10/28/10 at 10:10:47 A modicum of biccardi will make it alright. ;) |
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Title: Re: LS650 kick start conversion Post by Ed L. on 10/28/10 at 13:50:54 I think a turbo was put on a savage that worked. The way he got around the pulses was by having a large diameter pipe that went between the exhaust port on the head and the turbo. It would reduce the pulses and act as a exhaust pressure reserve to run the turbo. It was a very unique set up with the pipe running all the way around the cylinder before getting to the carb. The tried and true mods for horse power, carbs, cams, compression and flow are the way to go with the big single. |
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