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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> Multiculturism ??? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1287402144 Message started by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/18/10 at 04:42:24 |
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Title: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/18/10 at 04:42:24 There's a story this morning on Yahoo about the German Chancellor's remarks in a speech over the weekend about how the concept of multiculturism in Germany has totally failed. Her thoughts are that immigrants, mainly Turks, who have failed to learn the German language, who hold onto their Muslim practices such as forced marriages, and who insist on wearing their native garb have dragged down the entire German society, and are no more than a drag on the gov't budget in terms of the benefits they receive without producing anything. The Turkish Prime Minister actually agreed with her, and said that Turks immigrating to Germany must learn German and become a part of te German culture - how refreshing !! Sound familiar? Kinda like what we're suffering here. America's national motto - E Pluribus Unum - translated as One From Many, has lost its meaning here too. I would propose: 1. English as our official national langauge. Stop all multi lingual signs, gov't documents, etc. If you come here, learn English or fail, just like most of our ancestors did. Unless you came here from England, Scotland, Ireland, or Canada, you learned to speak English. My grandparents did, and I bet, most of your ancestors did too. 2. Adopt the historic American culture - mainly that means normal, American clothing ( I'm of Swiss descent - if I showed up in public in lederhosen - those leather shorts with a bib like top, thick woolen socks, and the funny little hat with the feather sticking out, people would think I had lost it ). Quit tolerating African attire, Muslim attire, and allow schools and businesses to adopt dress codes. 3. No gov't benefits of any type until and unless you become a citizen. That includes health care, unemployment, SS, - all gov't benefits. Harsh ? Maybe, but it might restore us to what we once were - the Great Melting Pot. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/18/10 at 08:04:36 As a person who has been involved with Foreign Student Exchange Programs on a volunteer basis for the past decade and the father of an adopted Thai daughter, I have mixed feelings on this whole problem to be honest. The success or failure of multi-culturalism is not a "black and white" (no pun intended) issue. Traditionally in America it was the white, European-descent people who were, for the most part, less distinguishable as "immigrants" (in a t-shirt and jeans, a Swiss national is indistinguishable from a British national for instance) ... and so, were able to integrate more easily. Visible minorities, no matter if they dress "American" or not will likely have a harder time with integration. My daughter came to Canada at age 12, knowing very little English but now speaks it with a distinct Newfie accent! That said, eventhough she is almost 21 now and has returned home to visit her natural family almost every summer since coming here, I cannot help but feel that she has in some way lost touch with her Thai heritage. Aside; several years ago some kids on a school bus taunted her with "Chinky, chink" remarks ... had she been Swiss or Belgian or Norwegian for instance, I doubt she would've been teased at all ... Multi-culturalism vs Melting Pot? No easy solutions I'm afraid ... both have their advantages and disadvantages and either way, one walks a fine line ... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/18/10 at 08:34:57 Perry - I agree with most of your comments. But I bet your daughter wears normal attire and not some native Thai dress. As you said, she also learned to speak English. Yes, people of other than European ancestry will be taunted now and then. Heck, with my Germanic name, I was called "Hamburger" through most of elementary school. It bothered me some, but I got over it. Kids can be the cruelist of all toward others. My beef isn't with different races - it's with people who won't learn English, and insist upon their "right" to wear their native attire. I also can't stand the phrase "African American". Most black people in America have no ties with Africa, and haven't had for generations. Since most American blacks are the descendants of slaves who were forced here in the 1700s, it's been nearly 300 years since they had any direct African ties. I suppose Pres. Obama is an unusual exception to this general statement - his father was African. I'm not a Swiss American, and for me, it's only 2 generations since my grandfather came here - I'm just an American. Yet, some Europeans are distinguishable for the most part. Greeks and Italians don't generally look the same as a Swede or a Norwegian, for instance. A Spaniard doesn't resemble many Poles nor Germans. The United States was the great melting pot, a shining light to which the peoples of the world came for a better life, and who quickly adopted what had become American culture and the English language. What happened in the past 30 or 40 years to abandon that successful model, and why did we allow it to happen? Some goofball who thought political correctness mattered, that's who. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/18/10 at 09:10:01 Intersting points Jerry ... I'm no fan of this "political correctness for its own sake" thing either ... that concept has been carried waaaaaay too far! Have to disagree about the "different races" ... there is only the "Human Race" ... made up of various ethnically distinct groups. Yes, my daughter wears typical North American/Western clothing ... but so do most Thais in her homeland ... and yes, some Europeans are more "visually distinct" than their northern European counterparts ... and I would say that the immigrants from those "less white" looking countries probably had a bit more difficult time with integration into American society. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mornhm - FSO on 10/18/10 at 09:10:04 Jerry, I have a different impression (based on what my ancestors have told me, and stories that have been handed down through the family or rediscovered through research) and just general history of what it was like as an immigrant in the United States. Yes, people did learn english (see below), but they for the most part kept to "their own kind," and kept family and religious traditions pretty much the same as they were before immigrating. That is why you have towns that were known as German, Swedish, Irish, or whatever. Or if the town was big enough, you had neighborhoods. Different cultures took different stations on the pecking order. And unless you were here first - near the top of the pecking order (the English come to mind) or plentiful - near the bottom of the pecking order (the irish come to mind), your traditions better stay at home. The most popular and plentiful became the standard or rule in public. Most of the music in the US that is considered "American" music comes from Celtic rythms and melodies. As far as language, lets face it, the British won the war at sea and so what we call the United States were settled by primarily the English. The people who won the revolutionary war were for the most part English speaking. The reason we speak English today is mainly the suppression of other languages and cultures, not inclusion. What people call the melting pot was more of a mortar and pestle, if you weren't already part of the mix you got crushed. Look at all the sayings that we have: "nail shoes on the natives" "The Kings English when spoken loudly, clearly and slowly enough can be understood by anyone" "The nail that sticks out gets hammered" Etc. etc. On one hand, I think that for legal and business matters we should use one language (english), on the other, I think that all people should maintain their family heritage. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/18/10 at 09:36:37 Mornhm - I have no problem at all with maintaining heritage, in your home. But to say that I can speak German and then expect others to adapt to me is my beef - why can the Mexican immigrants expect me to tolerate their not learning English? I don't give a hoot what one does at home. The average Jewish person is a prime example. Most all, except the most orthodox, melt into society perfectly. Yet in their homes, they may celebrate purely Jewish holidays, eat ceremonial Jewish meals, etc. Good for them. And I don't agree with your comments about classes, and those "at the bottom getting crushed". Yes, the great majority of the early Amercians were English, but the Germans weren't far behind. My own grandfather came to Columbus from Switzerland because of the large number of German speaking people here, but merely to aid him for the couple of years it took him to learn English and American ways. None of them continued to speak German in public nor in their jobs; even to each other. We have a German music club here where we eat Sauerbraten and other German dishes, but I sure don't speak German here at the office, except in jest once in a blue moon. That is why you had the immigrant ghettos, predominantly in the big cities on the East coast - non-English speakers needed a safety net for a short while until they learned enough English to get along outside of a very close knit native group. The same held true for the Irish in Boston too - although they naturally spoke English, they needed a safety net too for a while. I never met my grandfather as he died before I was born. But I've always wondered how awful things had to have been in much of Europe during the late 1800s to cause the wave of immigration to the U.S.. Imagine packing everything you can take in one or two trunks, braving the bowels of a stinky immigrant ship for the better part of a month, packed in like sardines with minimal sanitation and food, half of your fellow passengers constantly seasick, to go to a place where you knew no one, and didn't speak the language. No National Geographic or the Travel Channel to give you any real idea of what to expect when you arrived either. These people made our country what it is, or maybe, what it was. We all should maintain some of our heritage; no agrument with that. But to expect us to put up public signs and print gov't papers in Spanish - that's my beef. Another total aside - ever wonder when the colonists lost their English accent? Did Thomas Jefferson, Washington, etc. speak with an accent different than a Virginian of today? Obviously we'll never really know, but it's just one of the goofy things I think about. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by buttgoat1 on 10/18/10 at 09:36:50 It is too bad about you daughter, but try being a fat kid with thick glasses, I didn't fare any better than her. The fact is kids will always do that and we all learn and grow from it. As far as discrimination, the Irish and italians had it pretty hard, the difference here is that they assimilated rather than maintained a separate existence. My grandparents came here not speaking english but they learned because they were proud to be Americans. The problem here isn't racial, but cultural, no one has a problem with other cultures until any negative gets met with charges of racism and hatred. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/18/10 at 10:00:01 LOL buttgoat! I hear ya ... I was 2 1/2 mnths premature and birthed at less than 3 lbs ... so I grew up as the personification of the "runt of the litter", the proverbial 98 lb weakling ... also wore glasses, read a lot of books and built sci-fi models ... yup, I can identify with being singled out and picked on! LOL!! Needless to say that at age 50 I may not be "physically imposing", but I have a VERY thick skin! |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/10 at 10:19:17 Faaabulous! Teach YOUR kids the language their Great Gramma spoke, thats fine, BUT, teach that kid English & dont expect ME to pay Taxes to hire a teacher to teach that kid the language his Great Gramma spoke OR any subject IN that Language.. or run a court proceeding or provide legal documents in another language,, et screaming Ceterra! |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Serowbot on 10/18/10 at 11:22:21 It's ironic,... but the the natural tendency of kids to succumb to peer pressure, and want to fit in, and pick on the odd one,... tends to solve the problem naturally... Adult immigrants may have more difficulty assimilating into a new culture and have more difficulty learning a new language, but kids want so badly to fit in, that they adapt more quickly... Whether their parents want them to or not, they will start to act, and dress, and speak like the other kids, and have the same wants and goals... ... and in a generation or two,.. the problem solves itself no matter what the government does... or parents... So what's the deal with small government right-wingers wanting to regulate what language people are allowed to speak, and what clothes you can wear, and how you can behave, and what you want to call yourself?... Aren't we supposed to have freedoms and individual liberties?... You may find it annoying to see and hear people that are different or strange,... I do too, sometimes... ...but freedom has it's price, and accepting others for who they are is one of them... ... and the same laws that guarantee us a fair trial and equal justice, also requires that new members of society get the same... it may be costly and cumbersome, but it's the price we pay for freedom and equality... Given a few generations, Mexicans and Arabs will be more like us than different... I see it happening here everyday... One of the best things you can do is to say hello,... people naturally want to feel comfortable in their community... ... resentment makes them resistant to change... ... and now,.. ...I'd like to buy the world a Coke... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/18/10 at 11:49:28 Serowbot - Evreything you said is true. Just don't perpetuate the differences by coddling the language issue - no official anything in any language other than English - no signs, official documents, etc. in Spanish. Allow schools and businesses to do as they see fit with dress codes - no one working for me is going to wear a diaper on his head, a scarf on her head when ndoors, or a goofy little hat like Jim Brown wears. If they want to look odd, they can do it elsewhere. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/18/10 at 11:50:13 3C2A3D20382D203B4F0 wrote:
I'd say you're right on for the most part ... these days the exception being those fanatic Imans who actively brainwash & recruit new terrorists from American (& Canadian & British, etc.) born children of Arabic immigrants ... but thankfully this is the exception. I remember another weird case in British Columbia, Canada a few years ago where a young East Indian gal was killed by her father because she had become, in his opinion, "too Canadian" ... very, very sad ... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/18/10 at 11:56:40 Hopefully they take the father of that Indian girl out and shoot him. Oh, I forgot, no capital punishment in Canada - darn. That's the difference today - immigrants want a one way street - they want to come here, take advantage of what we have in the U.S. and in Canada, but not really become Americans or Canadians. Sorry, it won't work that way. Become one of us in all ways, or stay home. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Spiff on 10/18/10 at 12:27:58 313E3238333E35393E293C3E295B0 wrote:
And yet you long for the melting pot of yore: Quote:
Jerry, I think you don't know what the term melting pot means, because you say you desire it, but then you go on to also say "become one of us in all ways" -- those two things are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum! And please tell me who gets to decide what constitutes "one of us" -- what if I disagree with your list? Suppose I say that all newcomers must learn Ojibwe? After all, shouldn't they have to learn an original language of this land? All signs should be in Ojibwe, and only Ojibwe. The heck if I'm going to spend my tax dollars paying for language services for a foreign language such as English! |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/18/10 at 12:38:47 Spiff - when you make a sensible comment, I may reply. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Spiff on 10/18/10 at 12:44:11 414E4248434E45494E594C4E592B0 wrote:
Nice. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by bill67 on 10/18/10 at 12:44:24 +1 and if they don't want to learn Ojibwe scape them. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Serowbot on 10/18/10 at 13:12:06 I got your point Spiff... I had to look up "Ojibwe", but I got it... PS,... you have a 100 posts!... Congrats! Full Member... ;)... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/10 at 13:12:09 Sero,, So what's the deal with small government right-wingers wanting to regulate what language people are allowed to speak, TOTAL BUL:L CRAP, I NEVER said to regulate what they CAN speak, I said Do NOT expect ME to PAY TAXES & HIRE TEACHERS to Perpetuate the language iof Great Gramma.. HERE You Expose yourself for how you think. You CHOSE to read what I said & completely Spin it.. Intellectual dishgonesty causes me to fail to respect people faster than about anything. and what clothes you can wear, and how you can behave, and what you want to call yourself?... Aren't we supposed to have freedoms and individual liberties?... & Here you go off on a tangent, PRETENDING people have suggested such. You Take ONE THING, The dress code, & then TIE that to other things as IF they too were included.. BULL CRAP Dude... Bull CRAP.. I am completely disappointed in you, man,, |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Serowbot on 10/18/10 at 13:47:11 Jog,.. I wasn't responding to any particular post or comment,.. just the general attitude of conservative thinking... The hypocrisy of the sacrosanct status in which they claim to hold Constitution and simultaneous despise they have for the ACLU that defends it, for instance... The idea that rights and freedoms are only for those people that we agree with, and that behave like us... Freedom is about defending the rights of the unpopular... .... or it should be... PS,.. I better back out of this topic,... Politics... I'm trying to cut down... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by weracerc on 10/18/10 at 13:58:49 I'll load my .02 and fire come from somewhere where english is not the primary language - learn to speak it and pass the test and continue to speak it at all times, no exceptions. were not born here of legal US citizens get out, Me & Mr's Smith & Wesson will show you the quickest way out do not come here and force your ways on US - our ways work here - your ways may or may not have worked where you came from we dont care to see how or if they work here. dont like the way things work here - get out Mr's Smith & Wesson are glad to escort you pre 1980's America lets go back and start over and not make the mistakes we made that got us in this mess. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/18/10 at 14:52:35 It's posts like that last one that make me glad my Thai daughter is on the north side of the 49th parallel ... and I feel kinda bad for saying that because I generally am a very pro-American Canadian ... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/18/10 at 15:01:11 Since when did you guys speak English ? ;) |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mornhm - FSO on 10/18/10 at 15:09:44 Jerry, I think to a large degree we agree on the language thing when it comes to business and government. What people speak besides those circumstances is up to them. In other words I have no problem with people expressing themselves in what they wear, say or do. However as you say I should be free not to participate. If somebody can't speak english, they simply shouldn't be able do business in the USA without an interpreter somewhere along the line. As a "Johny come lately" I think you need to look closer at what happened to the people who paved the way for the later immigrants. They fought, clawed and forced their way into the mainstream. Our forefathers luckily understood what would likely happen and framed our constitution to prevent a situation that could have been a lot worse (basically what they were leaving behind in the old country). Not all immigrants needed a safety net, or came to these shores as paupers. Some of them bypassed settling in the the cities in the east and struck out further west. One can only imagine the - whatever it took - to do this and the reasons they did it. Some of these people with means came to what we now call the midwest and settled in the wilderness (what they called it), carved out a piece of land, and were completely self sufficient. My guess is that at least a part of their decision was based on how they saw other immigrants being treated in the cities. They were able to settle among the native people, carve out their little spot in the world, and make it work. Later, came "the indian troubles" which of course came after the treaties (War of 1812 etc) written by people who hadn't even seen these lands yet laid claim to them. My ancestors didn't have an accent, others might call it a brogue but never an accent. ;D |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/18/10 at 15:40:19 if we all spoke English what would happen to those people who study other languages so they can make a living being an interpreter ? My cousin Brina who is English,she lives in Paris and translates Arabic medical documents into both french and English,and vica verca. I know one guy here in Oregon "a friend of my sisters Son" who is fluent in Arabic, and being half mexican he also speaks spanish and English,he is the guy who works for blackwater. most of the time he is "over there" he wears Arab clothing he realy looks the part. Coming and going is a big production he just cant fly in and out ,he has to take all kinds of differant routes, I had better not say any more about him.probably not a good idea. I will say this, he was in speacial forces while in the service. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Skid Mark on 10/18/10 at 15:49:54 Immigrants need to accept the norms of the society the have adopted as their own. I would assume they came here (Canada & the US) for a better life than could be offered in the "Old Country". This doesn't mean the lose all of their old ways and customs, just the the ones that prevent them from contributing to our societies. I grew up with many immigrants from various continents and various relegions. I found their differences facinating, but they all realized they didn't have to give up much to benefit from what our society offered. That East Indian on the West Coast mentioned above is nothing but a murderer and should be sent back from where he came, preferable w/o a parachute. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/10 at 17:38:13 Lets take a vote on this. I slip into Mexico, I somehow get a job. I go to the town hall & what? Demand medical care & food stamps? My wefe has a baby. Now were legal;? GET REAL.. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by WD on 10/18/10 at 20:56:23 I really shouldn't step into this...but... My background is Irish-Scots-German-English-Welsh-Pawnee-Amish. I don't speak ANY of those languages properly, start spouting off in the Queen's English and I zone out. I drive an intermodal heavy container semi. I deal daily with immigrant drivers and dockhands. Tell you what, for my money, if you weren't born in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand or western Europe, get off my piers and off my roads. Your spoken English is atrocious, you can't drive your way out of a wet paper bag (watch IRT Deadliest Roads, those East Indian cage drivers are good compared to African, Russian, Arab and East Indian truckers), and underbidding the job forcing you to run hell bent for leather is assinine. And take a shower you nasty f***s. >:( I don't care what anyone does at home. Eat what you want, watch what you want, speak what you want. When I go to my riding friend Doug's, the food is German, the language is German, and the music tends to be SA and SS marching/battle songs. At my little brothers, it is mostly various Gaelic foods and music. At my house, it tends to be Southern food, Southern rock, and Parisian French and Castillian Spanish. With Lakota, Navajo, Coast Salish and a few other indigenous languages thrown in as I remember them (I've studied 30 languages, it gets confusing). One set of great-grandparents came here from the Alsace. They settled on Long Island NY and kept farming until they died. One set came here from Ireland, via New York and Mexico. That great-grandfather was a shoemaker, he made Babe Ruth's shoes starting when the Babe was still in an orphanage. Another great-grandfather was all of 26 years old when he died of black lung, coal miner and logger. The other was a Master Mason, Scottish Rite, and fire chief in my mom's hometown. What did they all have in common? They worked hard to make a life for their families. They didn't expect to get everything handed to them. No government safety net, no special breaks because they were "different", no special treatment because they were/weren't born here. I'd just as soon close the borders to the unskilled masses, but until/unless we get our own kids to start acting like Americans or Canadians and not a pack of entitlement s***s, it's kind of pointless. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/18/10 at 23:05:41 Most of you old timers have seen these two pictures from London a couple of years ago ,the posters were probably writen by the same person even so he had plenty of volenteers to hold them up,this is what you call not blending in with your adopted country ,if they hate it so much why don't they go back to that filthy hole they came from. Oh,I just remembered they want to turn every one into fuc+ing muslims, one again Religion rearing it's ugly head.here you go. http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr311/mickrowe37/londonprotest5.jpg http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr311/mickrowe37/londonprotest1.jpg |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/19/10 at 00:32:49 2E2A2028372B262F2A2E263A430 wrote:
Actually mick out here on our Rock in the North Atlantic, we have our own dialect, "Newfanese" ;) |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/19/10 at 00:43:48 586D7A7A716C695B697E696F6D080 wrote:
Actually mick out here on our Rock in the North Atlantic, we have our own dialect, "Newfanese" ;) [/quote] first I hope you know I was kidding. How does Newfanese sound ? anything like canook ? saying oot instead of out or are you like Assie English,or South African English ? I just found out this evening that English is the 2nd most spoken language in the world,the first,you guessed it "Manderine Chinese" the place were English suposidly is spoken as perfect as can be is in north Wales,not even in England. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Stimpy - FSO on 10/19/10 at 03:12:29 I've been in Germany since 1997 so I lived the huge change this failed "integration" caused and can tell you first hand it's all highly complex and it's all sadly true. Also, as a lifelong student of philosophy, psychology and sociology saw this mess coming a mile away, duh. The goal was supposedly to bring in qualified workforce and new taxpayers since the darn germans are not having any kids and the population is aging FAST. It was an utter failure, same as the reunification effort. The millions of, mainly, russian and turkish immigrants came legaly prancing in with extended families of 20 and of these just maybe 1 or 2 persons work and pay taxes, the rest enjoy welfare benefits. Talk about backfire. Little Russia and little Istanbul neighborhoods popped up by the thousands and that is that, nobody learned german nor adapted to the cultural/social standards; and these people aren't going anywhere, they are here to stay, utter utter failure. In my opinion, Merkels speech came out out of pressure or desperation since the country is honestly in pretty bad shape, but then again, nothing in politics happens by accident. If anyone has any questions, shoot, later, R. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mpescatori on 10/19/10 at 05:58:05 My own two cents, but since they're Eurocents http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRDaZRdrCv0jYm2uRzzm9ArOpyea0XWuSVf4SaUv7u3GoyxdRk&t=1&usg=__Hmy-Xv8TqRMqO1CDQOUIIMlMx8w= are they worth a little more ? :D You all speak about multiculturality, yet forget who it was that colonized your lands (never mind the issue of the North American Indian) Was it poor glebes, toling the soil? In part. For the major part, it was a mix of : 1) people sentenced to exile (so it was in His Majesty's Courts, to populate the Colonies, including Australia, South Africa and New Zealand) 2) entire communities deported (see the Irish or the Scots) 3) families following their loved ones into exile 4) communities seeking freedom of religion (the Pilgrim Fathers, for starters, not to mention Russian and Polish Jews) 5) communities seeking freedom of identity (wars in Europe meant borders would come and go, up until 1946, see the Poles, the Armenians, French and German Alsatians) 6) servicemen (meaning, entire regiments) posted to the Colonies, and families would either follow or form 7) and, last but not least, farmers tired of toiling the soil for His Highness or His Holiness, and spent small fortunes for tickets to the New World. Read any short story which describes Ellis Island, very few were actually escaping "famine", most could read and write and had money to spare. Now, my own personal experience. I went over in 1968, one of the first words I learned was "WOP", if I didn't answer whomever of the schoolkids called me WOP I would get beaten more or less badly. I learned to run fast, verry fast, very quickly. I also learned to read and write in English, and so they found a new reason to beat me up, I would consistently win the spelling bees, which to the eyes of many WASPs was unacceptable. My perception is that America created its own identity out of the desire for one, but never had the years and years (centuries upon centuries) to allow it to sink its roots deep into the weave of society. The result is a number of contradictions on the one hand and misconceptions on the other. Elvis would sing of his "Yiddishe Mommye" and many of his fans would don the hoods of the KKK; Some will brag of being "American as Apple Pie", which is the most notorious Bavarian dessert; Cowboy songs are riddled with slow yodels (again, from Bavaria and Tyrol) [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGYpxyMNcco[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiKNhFE5H4o&feature=related[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G17z9DjjEOA&feature=related[/media] or will sing about [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdxLxnhGnvo&feature=related[/media] OR [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siQtzrI5w88&feature=related[/media] Now, let me telly you abot what a "melting pot" really is. It's NOT a soup pot, where you put in many different things, and hopefully all will cooperate to make the main ingredient (water) a little more tasty. Because if this were true, then the fundamental ingredient, the WASP community, is defining itself as "insipid". The melting pot, the real melting pot, is known in English as a CRUCIBLE, or by Alchemists and Esoterists as the ATHANOR. http://www.chicagocrucible.com/images/pouring_crucible1.jpgCRUCIBLE TO MAKE STEEL http://athanor.com.au/images/athanor.gifALCHEMICAL ATHANOR http://www.lucianopizziconi.com/img/logo_01.jpgESOTERIC ATHANOR. So, the crucible will take copper and tin, to make bronze; but both copper and tin will lose their identity as such. Here I do not see anybody willing to meet others, neither in a crucible nor in an Athanòr. Do not forget what it was like in the 19th Century for your own ancestors when they crossed the ocean. One thing is social discipline, another is deculturalization. Cool 8-) |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Yonuh Adisi on 10/19/10 at 06:26:36 2B2F252D322E232A2F2B233F460 wrote:
I always say we don't speak English in the States, we speak Idiogrammic American. And this is all I will say in this thread. If I actually decided to join this conversation I would pi$$ a lot of people off. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by weracerc on 10/19/10 at 06:51:19 reloaded now round 2 We (wifey & I ) were in walmart on Sunday afternoon - fairly packed - and the wife mentioned how in every department she went in to there were groups of people speaking foriegn languages - not always the same language but nonetheless foreign languages throughout the store (what are they disccussing the price of items or plotting to take over the store i dont know I live in America where the language is supposed to be English - I dont speak any freaking foreign languages and i dont plan to learn any, any time soon if ever!) - I asked the walmart associate in the frozen foods area where the Oscar Meyer Canadian Bacon was since they had re-organized the section since I was last in this store - she did not understand my question and did not answer me she just pointed for me to go to the island full of Oscar Myer Bacon 2 for $6, not what i asked for in plain understandable English .....she finally asked her co-worker (by way of foreign language) where this product was - pointed down the row to another location and there it was - he did not speak just pointed....... When I go out in public I expect to be able to ask a question and get an answer in understandable English - not a blank look and point of a finger - or some in-coherent babbling in a foriegn language......speak english or GET OUT!...and take all your freakin relative who dont speak english or know how to follow American ways - GET OUT! |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mpescatori on 10/19/10 at 07:14:19 Weracerc, may I suggest you go to Scotland, or Wales, or even North Yorkshire, and spend a week there. They all speak English, you wouldn't last a day... different accents, different cadence of speech, even different words for the same concept... Y'knoo wo'I mean ? In the US, Manhattan-ese is surprisingly close to London Cockney, but in NY State the accent is closer to Dutch (ever hear the Dutch speak English ? Incredibly good accent !) Go to Bost'n, close as you can get to King's English; take your wife to a jewelers and the first thing they'll ask is if she has p-s-d-s. ::) P-S-D-S ??? Spell the letters out loud; does she have... pearced ears ? P-S-D-S ? Go out to the Kentucky hillbilly, he doesn't live very differently from his grandpappy; and would a Texas Redneck fit in, in S.Francisco ? How would a teenager from greater Los Angeles get along in a Milwaukee High School ? It's the same here, there and everywhere. In Europe, the Belgians would sneer at the Italian and Greek immigrants who would find little or no work, if not in the coal mines. In Germany, autoworkers. Now, those 3rd generation people are trueblood certified Belgians, Germans etc. In Italy, I've seen Somalis dressed in their garb in Rome since I first came in 1979, but they fit in alright. I'ts not a matter of "learn my language or get out", it's a matter of "get used to it". It's what makes the USA so great. Opportunity. Withou OPPORTUNITY, the USA is bound for decadence, just as it was for every single Nation in Europe. Sooner or later, everybody will have their decadent period. The only thing that will save a Nation from decadence is renewal, and you can't do that without "new people". Not just a new generation but a generation of new Americans. And, by the way, what's so hot about Canadian Bacon, why can't good old American bacon do? Or... is it like "Freedom Fries" vs "French Fries" ? ;) |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by weracerc on 10/19/10 at 07:28:55 I would not go abroad because I dont know what the rules and customs are so i dont want to offend people in ther homeland by not following thier rules - just like i expect people who come here to follow our rules, not impose thier will and way of life on US......if you come here to visit for a week on vacation and you know enough English to get by for a week and you follow our rules fine - if you stay longer and think you are going to bring your culture here and impose your will on US think again we dont want or need that.......there is a saying too many chiefs not enough indians........there needs to be 1 set of rules and people who follow them....not a set of rules for every culture who comes here. We let this get out of hand over the past 3-4 decades - I just want to see us enforce our rules and stand our ground and take back over this country before we all are forced to live a set of rules that was never intended to be a part of America. we should stay out of other countries problems and solve our own first. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/19/10 at 08:26:57 5C58525A4559545D585C5448310 wrote:
Actually mick out here on our Rock in the North Atlantic, we have our own dialect, "Newfanese" ;) [/quote] first I hope you know I was kidding. How does Newfanese sound ? anything like canook ? saying oot instead of out or are you like Assie English,or South African English ? I just found out this evening that English is the 2nd most spoken language in the world,the first,you guessed it "Manderine Chinese" the place were English suposidly is spoken as perfect as can be is in north Wales,not even in England.[/quote] Of course mick my friend I knew you were kidding (hence the winky on the end of my post) ... yes, here in Newfoundland we actually speak a dialect of English (though it is not known as "Newfanese"; that was my little joke!) with a variety of accents depending on which part of Nfld. one may be from. The St. John's/Avalon Peninsula area has a very Irish-sounding accent while the Southwest Coast (where my family originate) have an accent reminiscent of Dorset & Devonshire over in England other places have somewhat distinct accents and turns-of-phrase as well ... The Island of Newfoundland is almost as large geographically as England/Scotland/Wales too, but with only 550,000 people, who were until 50 years ago scattered and largely isolated from one another ... the reason for the distinct regional accents. Now-a-days though, most of the kids coming up have a pretty much "standard" North American blandness to their speech. Newfanese Plain English How are ya gettin' on? How are you? What are ya at? Greeting = Nice to see you Go way b'y! (or G'wan b'y!) Expression of disbelief = No kidding! Sleveen Scoundrel Don't be so crooked! Don't be so grouchy! It's some sticky today! It's rather humid today! He's like da Cracky! His bark is bigger than his bite (a Cracky is a small yappy dog) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newfoundland_English |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/19/10 at 08:36:12 I wonder in another 100 years if most of the American regional accents, most predominantly what we call the southern accent, the Boston accent, and the northern midwest (Minnesota, Wisconsin, Dakotas and Iowa) will all disappear, as people are so mobile now. Regional isolation is rapidly disappearing. So will regional accents in all probability as people quickly move from one region to another, for a few days, or for a few years. Look at metropolitan southern cities like Atlanta or Dallas - just as many people there now who didn't grow up there as there are natives. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/19/10 at 08:36:49 A further point ... something that I find kind of ironic actually ... during the 1930's, the United States practised a foreign policy that was largely isolationist in it's approach ... ended by Japan's surprise attack on Dec. 7th, 1941, ushering America into WW2 ... strangely, a similar surprise attack on Sept. 11th, 2001 came during a period of a more globalized foreign policy, which has since fostered an isolationist sentiment amongst many Americans ... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/19/10 at 08:53:53 Perry - The isolationism of the 1930s just isn't economically or physically possible anymore. In the 1930s, we had only rudimentary air transportation. It still took days to cross the American continent by rail, and only the wealthy ever went overseas, and then by ship that took days to cross the Atlantic. Today's international economy and our rapid transportation means, along with the computer and the internet, have changed us to the point where we'll never go back. In 1940, the U.S. was basically self sufficient, except for a few raw materials, like rubber, not found in North America. We were an oil exporter in those days, along with gold, silver, and many other natural resources that we now import in huge quantities. The old saying that you just can't go back is so true. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/19/10 at 08:59:46 I fully realize that Jerry ... just pointing out the irony that a period of American isolationist policy was ended by a dirty sneak attack while a similar attack 60 years later has many Americans wishing for an end to globalization ... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/19/10 at 09:08:50 000F4A584F585E5C575A08390 wrote:
It's pretty bad if you won't go on vacation to a different country just because you know nothing of there culture ,the reason you go to London,Paris,Rome is to learn about there culture ,the way they do things,experiment with ethnic foods make the whole thing an adventure,if you don't you will learn nothing. I love it when people come here ,I love showing them around eat a real hamburger, go to Las Vegas there really is no place like it, any old family members that still live in the UK ,they love it when they come here , I dont tell to learn the American way of doing things before they come here ,thats rediculious. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by weracerc on 10/19/10 at 09:23:40 I dont/cant /will not travel outside US for many reason the main reason $$ I have not even been able to take a vacation within my own state for over 15 years because i cant afford it. but that is another story for another topic... i just dont want to be overrun by other cultures who expect US to make allowances for them to be here....short visit one thing but long ternm concessions and new rules to allow them to live thier lifestyles like did where they came from - not a good thing to let happen. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/19/10 at 09:26:25 My Italian friend you should know better American bacon is c---rap nothing but fat,Canadian is way better but best of all is Irish or English lots of lean meat in there ,the bacon you guys eat is called streaky,I eat it to because you just cant get Irish or english,oh well another cross to bear. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/19/10 at 10:14:50 Mick - Canadian bacon isn't really bacon is it? Not from the belly of the hog like ours is. Canadian is far better for you since it's far leaner. I don't remember English bacon from my time there - is it similar to Canadian? |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/19/10 at 10:48:50 How about some "Newfie Steak" b'ys i.e. bologna!! ;) |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/19/10 at 10:54:10 Perry - What cut of the hog does CAnadian bacon come from? It's not the belly like ours, is it? |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/19/10 at 12:46:21 2C232F252E2328242334212334460 wrote:
I can tell you exactly what it looks like,picture a nice looking pork chop then smoke it and cut it thin like bacon in England we call them "Gamon Rashers" I was in touch with the American pork growers assn in Des Moines Iowa,they said they don't do bacon that way because they make more money making pork chops than bacon,bacon is time consuming with smoking,and then to use the best cut . there you go,as usual it's all about money, the streaky bacon you use does indeed come from the belly,the chop is more like a filet. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/19/10 at 13:01:55 Mick - I grew up raising pigs, more than a few thousand have wandered by my eyes in my lifetime. I know where normal American bacon comes from, what are called "pork bellies" in the commodity trade. I agree that it's horrible for you. It is possible to find some that isn't very fatty, but be prepared to pay dearly for it, and generally available only at specialty butchers. When I can't get the really lean stuff, I take the trouble and time to trim almost all of the fat away before I cook it. I don't fry it crisp and hard - I like it still somewhat soft. So your English bacon is very thinly sliced pork chops, right? |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/19/10 at 13:02:44 Jerry, I honestly don't have a clue what "Canadian" bacon is ... it's a term I hear Americans use, but I have no idea. Up here regular old strip bacon is the only thing I see sold in the grocery stores as "bacon" ... which part of hog it comes from again not a clue. Thought I heard from someone once that what Americans refer to as "Canadian" bacon is a cut of pig other than what we serve up as bacon with our eggs! OK, while I'm waitin' for supper to cook y'all got me curious ... gonna Google! This is the only pork we know as bacon up here; http://www.tonychor.com/archive/bacon.jpg I take it this is what you Yanks call "Canadian" bacon? http://www.foodsubs.com/Photos/canadianbacon.jpg Looks like what we call sliced ham! LOL!! Newfie Steak LOL!! http://www.cretafarms.com/retail/products/images/bologna.jpg Man has this topic morphed!! ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by weracerc on 10/19/10 at 13:05:34 less fat than tradional bacon (pork)....probably all comes from a pig just a leaner cut.....I do like some stuff from other places - just not shoved down my throat! http://www.iwaslazy.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/canadianbacon-300x300.jpg traditional Bacon read the package "Americas favorite"....not Canada's http://www.momsneedtoknow.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/oscar-mayer-bacon1.jpg |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/19/10 at 13:36:35 Perry - Yep, what you showed as sliced ham is what we call Canadian bacon. Regular bacon comes from the belly of the pig, right where the navel is on a human. Same reason it's fatty - it's the same abdominal fat I've got way too much of. Ham is the rear part of the upper leg and butt region of the pig's hind legs. Ever heard of the hamstring muscle in a human - that long muscle along the back of your thigh, that runs from your butt to the back of your knee? It's the muscle that athletes often pull. That's way it's called the hamstring. Ham meat is fairly lean, but when cured into the ham we eat, it's full of sodium. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Serowbot on 10/19/10 at 14:25:36 From Wiki... Bacon is prepared from several different cuts of meat. It is usually made from side and back cuts of pork, except in the United States, where it is almost always prepared from pork belly (typically referred to as "streaky", "fatty", or "American style" outside of the US). The side cut has more meat and less fat than the belly. Bacon may be prepared from either of two distinct back cuts: fatback, which is almost pure fat, and pork loin, which is very lean. Bacon-cured pork loin is known as back bacon. English bacon... http://ronphilbeckpottery.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Full_breakfast_Marion.jpg ... and now I'm hungry,.. again... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/19/10 at 14:31:19 This is fricken hilarious ... a topic on the apparent cons of multiculturalism and here we have Americans and Canadians discussing the merits of different types of bacon! LOL!!! Wonder if any Muslim motorcyclists wanna join in on the conversation! ;) Hey here's a thought ... if you all wanna keep most Muslims out, tell 'em that in order to come to America they gotta chow down on a big 'ol feed of bacon upon arrival! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Serowbot on 10/19/10 at 14:35:16 I do think it should be known that we bury Muslim terrorists vertically, head first, feet exposed, facing north, and wrapped in bacon... It's only fair to warn them... ;D... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/19/10 at 14:59:29 5543544951444952260 wrote:
me too you bugger I'm starving ,the picture is exactly a English breakfast, bangers,bacon,mushrooms eggs and baked beans,fried tomatoes finished of with toast real butter and marmalade and about 3 or 4 cups of tea. get that under your belt you are ready to face the day. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/19/10 at 15:06:50 Mick - Eat that, and you're ready to face the cardiologist too. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/19/10 at 15:17:30 5758545E5558535F584F5A584F3D0 wrote:
not every day any more ,now days I might have two poached eggs and toast,I still use real butter after I found out it has the same amount of fat as margerine,or I might have a bacon sandwich,but not all together, on the other hand if I could get it I would eat it. BTW Jerry are you getting a new Miata ? |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by bill67 on 10/19/10 at 15:26:03 My favorite steak is tube steak,Better known as hotdogs |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/19/10 at 15:48:29 03080D0D5756610 wrote:
Yeah right Bill is that what your girl friend is calling it now ? do you treat her to that every night ? |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Starlifter on 10/19/10 at 17:41:15 Weracerc my friend. Since you hold the English language in such high and sacred esteem, and you also insist that others educate themselves to perfection or get out of the country... May I respectfully suggest that you improve your punctuation, spelling, and grammar. Glass houses, stone throwing and all that you know. ;) |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/10 at 18:27:30 and you also insist that others educate themselves to perfection or get out I didnt see that. Yuo run & hide in your straw man arguments, you pretend someone said something in such a way as to make it impractical & silly, then ridicule them as IF thats what they did.. so? Keep On believing youre winning! Keep defending what the brainwashers taught you. Keep on supporting the ideas that have SUNK this country.. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by weracerc on 10/19/10 at 18:34:54 not perfect nor ever said i was - fast typing ends up with simple errors - leaving borders unprotected and allowing anyone and everyone in and kissing their a$se$ leads to big problems priorities my friend priorities i suggest you pick a bigger more important battle - or get out sorry to all that i riled up - time to stop feeding the trolls - I am OUT of this discussion....going to get a slice of good Canadian bacon and watch NCIS where they know how to kick a$$ and take names....... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Starlifter on 10/19/10 at 19:28:22 "I didnt see that. Yuo run & hide in your straw man arguments, you pretend someone said something in such a way as to make it impractical & silly, then ridicule them as IF thats what they did.. so? Keep On believing youre winning! Keep defending what the brainwashers taught you. Keep on supporting the ideas that have SUNK this country.." JOG, I don't quite follow your comments here....are you suggesting that I am brainwashed about science and evolution??? What are the ideas that I support that have sunk the country? The far right represents An appalling culture of greed, misinformation, xenophobia, and willful ignorance (among others), that people like weracerc and most of those on the far right subscribe to. I beleive in replacing that culture with one of peace, of equality and justice. It's as simple as that. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mpescatori on 10/20/10 at 02:10:56 OK, let me keep this on the funny side and stick t bacon for a moment. Baloney - something grossly stupid and or blatantly false. As in : Baloney Steak... ;) Baloney as a word comes frmo people not being able to pronounce the name of a city - Bologna - which is where they tarditionally make MORTADELLA - a giant leviathan of a boiled sausage, known since Republican Rome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortadella Mortadella is also very popular in Argentina, Brazil, Ecuador, Chile and Uruguay, thanks to the Italian immigrants that established in these countries in the early 20th century. The normal spelling in these countries, however, is mortadela, and its recipe is quite similar to the traditional Italian, with additional pepper grains. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/be/Mortadella.jpg/250px-Mortadella.jpghttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Mortadella2.JPG/250px-Mortadella2.JPG In Hungary they have a similar product called in Hungarian mortadella and a plain variety called Pariser, Parizer or Párizsi. In France it is known as Lyoner and in Germany as Extrawurst http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/38/Extrawurst.JPG/220px-Extrawurst.JPG :) |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by PerrydaSavage on 10/20/10 at 05:29:36 Bologna by any other name is still baloney up here on The Rock ... a breakfast favorite ... especially good enjoyed out-of-doors, fried in a cast iron skillet (over an open fire) while trout fishing! Cripes, I just salivated! |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/20/10 at 05:38:11 Mick - No, I haven't purchased a Miata. I may look around over the late winter, but right now, I've got enough with my S40. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mpescatori on 10/20/10 at 06:26:59 Perry, here's a few tasty ways to enjoy your Bologna (I still like the original "Mortadella" name much more) 1) Thin, round slices about 3-4" wide, in a skillet, open a quail egg on them, voila`! A miniature Pork&Eggs !!! 2) Diced, about 1/4" size, first grilled on the skittle, then boiled a few minutes with your favorite vegetable soup - gotta try it ! 3) Diced and grilled, then used to stuff your favorite poultry and oven bake ! Leaner than bacon, definitely leaner than lard !!! 4) Diced and stuck in the Savage's cooling fins, don't even try to eat those but the neighbors' dogs will be A LOT friendlier !!! ;D ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by drharveys on 10/20/10 at 13:05:31 I tend to be a bit more vegetarian at breakfast -- nothing moral or profound, just never got into meat before lunch. The other day I tossed together a frittata -- scrambled some eggs in olive oil, topped it with sliced baby portabella mushrooms, olive tapenade and some thinly sliced smelly cheese. Once the eggs were set, I put it under the broiler to cook the top layer and melt the cheese. That was sooo good! Heck, I just may make another one for dinner tonight! ;D |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/20/10 at 13:26:02 Dr. Harveys - My typical breakfast 3 or 4 mornings per week is similar to yours, except that I use Eggbeaters, toss in some spinach, chopped yellow or red peppers, some chopped onions and maybe a tiny bit of chopped ham for some salty flavor. I avoid real eggs and the cheese for cholesterol control. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by bill67 on 10/20/10 at 13:37:48 Biscuits and gravy. The gravy made with bacon grease,scramble eggs and well could bacon.Cholesterol is good for you it puts lead in your pencil. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/20/10 at 13:48:16 And clogs in your arteries - I know; I have 2 stents. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/10 at 14:19:13 2C3335322F2819291921333F74460 wrote:
Division. A willingness to stoop to any level to reframe to statements of "The Opponent" in such a way as to make them look silly. THATS whats been taught us. You PRETEND he said something so that YOU can attack what he said is IF it were foolish, when in fact, you twisted his words & then acted as IF he had wanted something other than what he argued for. Straw Man Argument.. JNo one ever said that people had to educate themselves to perfection, You want to attack anyone who goes against what youbve been taught is GOOD & you engage in intellectual dishonesty to get there.. grow up emotionally, please, |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Starlifter on 10/20/10 at 16:58:34 Oh stop with all that JOG. Weracerc posted a nasty and mean comment about brandishing guns and running people out of the country who don't speak like he does or think like he does. I stand by my comments, and if you disagree, so be it. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/20/10 at 17:19:32 Well, I didnt see that, like I said. All I saw was his point that he wasnt into the bilingual stuff & wanted people to learn the language & assimilate or leave...& I agree. Look at what happened to the Roman empire. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by WD on 10/20/10 at 21:24:52 ALL overstuffed societies fail, be it Rome, Britain, Mongols, USSR, 3rd Reich, even China went the way of the dinosaur courtesy of Mao. Ever seen the ruins in SE Asia, Africa or Central and South America? Ever heard of the Anasazi, the Mound Builders, or the Iroquois League? Ever heard of the Moorish Empire, the Holy Roman Empire, the Vikings, Celts, Picts? All gone, all for the same reasons. Overexpansion, over use of resources, sticking their noses where they didn't belong, and the mass entry of foreign ideals, some of which actually would have strengthened the empire in question. I'm trying to con my wife into moving to Spain, Argentina, Chile, Uraguay, or Paraguay. So long as there are proper beaches (clothing optional), decent food and good beer I'll be happy. Hmm, my inner Spaniard/German is showing... Oh, and pork is toxic unless it is served as ribs (on the bone) or sausage. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/21/10 at 03:39:54 I mentioned the Romans because toward the end they started bringin people in & their society started to fracture. That wasnt the root of the problem, but it WAS one of them. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by WD on 10/21/10 at 10:58:48 I'd love to reform our immigration policies to accept only the best and brightest that can actually add something tangible to our society. We don't need any more hard scrabble day laborers, migrant fruit pickers, maids, etc. It isn't about their race either, it is about the fact that we as a society have become spoiled, lazy, ignorant...insert term here... I'm getting ready to go back to school. I was offered a full ride to Johns Hopkins when I was 13, parents did not allow it. I've done the typical American shuffle from dead end job to dead end job, stint in the military, back to dead end jobs. Hated college the first time around, but hate ring around the collar jobs more. We have an entire 2 generations of Americans who think the world owes them a comfortable life for zero outlay in return. Why do we have an immigration problem? It is pretty simple to figure out... If your kids don't have to work for what they have, sit around smoking pot and playing video games, keep squirting out unplanned babies with no idea what do do with them or how to take care of them... Someone else is going to see an opening that traditionally is filled by young Americans and step into it. You want to make changes, start at home. Shut off the TV, make your kids cut the lawn, weed the flower beds, do the dishes or whatever else needs to be taken care of. Send them to the fields and orchards at harvest time. Quit paying for their higher education, make them earn their own way. Take away their cars, dirt bikes and other luxuries, life isn't about what they can get for nothing. All the steal and squander liberal boomers need to look in the mirror and say "I caused this". |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Serowbot on 10/21/10 at 11:05:25 5D4E0A0 wrote:
Great idea,... they can have all the good jobs, and we'll be the the low paid, menial laborers... You've really thought this out... :-?... |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by weracerc on 10/21/10 at 11:30:19 6576320 wrote:
yep - no free rides - for anyone - especially our own kids.....if they dont earn it they dont respect the effort it takes to get it. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by babyhog on 10/21/10 at 12:45:36 Oh, don't get me started on the children of today... I don't have the stomach for it today. I will say that I think the "entitlement" that the kids feel today comes from us thinking that we were "doing better" by our kids. Giving them more than we had was not "doing better", although I think that's what we thought. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mornhm - FSO on 10/21/10 at 13:20:20 I don't know, I'm pretty proud of my kids (3 out of 4 - we do have one that has "issues"). One graduated college - her and her husband both have teaching jobs. One is in college - sophomore, A student, ROTC, was enlisted during high school. One is in high school - sophomore, A student, considering following his brother into the service). Did I mention they all are/were tri-athletes and active in music and drama? My youngest son said recently that he and his friends were discussing their parents recently and he was wondering if his parents are weird because we never ground them, and rarely dish out punishment, and let them do most of what they want to do. ;D |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 10/21/10 at 13:32:48 Mornhm - We're kinda in the same boat - we have only one child, a daughter who, by some standards, would be said to have been spoiled rotten. However, giving your kids what you can afford to do for them isn't necessarily spoiling them. Yes, we provided lots of material things for her, and I guess it's easier to do when you have only one child. But at the same time, we gave her a very firm foundation in religion (sorry, Mick - please, no rant in reply) morality, and self discipline. We also instilled a strong business and work ethic in her. Today, at age 30, she owns her own business with about 20 full time employees, and does very well financially. She is a city councilman (NOT a councilwoman, by her own insistence, she says that the office is councilman, she just happens to be a female who occupies that office), and is married to a great guy who is our county recorder. They have only been married 1.5 years, so no kids of their own yet. Luckily, they live just 7/10ths of a mile from us, so in nice weather we can walk to each other's houses. We are able to see them several times per week, and usually have dinner together at least twice a week. Giving your kids what you can afford to do for them doesn't mean they have to turn out unappreciative or lazy. In fact, my daughter has a framed sign above her desk that just has three letters on it - DSR. It stands for Do Sh.. Right. I'm very proud of her. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Starlifter on 10/21/10 at 13:41:48 "All the steal and squander liberal boomers need to look in the mirror and say "I caused this." ...well you had a pretty good post going there until that last sentence. When you pronounce to an entire generation that they are the cause of all ills, you're not speaking from a position of knowledge or even emotional maturity. Please stop with the stereotyping... Us baby Boomers have brought plenty to the table...60's, 70's, 80's, 90's... so when you 20 or 30 or 40 -somethings pregnant dog about us, and consider us evil or irrelevant, you need to keep in mind what we have contributed to this society: Cell phones, Computers, DVD's/CD's, Ipods, Cordless phones, VHS/VCR recorders, Walkmans, Apple Mac, Nike sneakers, floppy disk, Pentium processors, micro processors, ethernet, Xerox, Laser printers, Ink jet printers, Computer Mouse, hubble Space Telescope, GPS, Com Satellites, Satellite TV, Digital Cameras, THE WEB, Lasers, The moon landings, The Space Shuttle, Music Videos, Cable Television, Full intergration of 'in color' television broadcasting, automobile air bags, Bar Codes, Email, LCD's, MRI's, The Pacemaker, Fiber optics, Kevlar, Hypertext, Portable Calculators..... Each generation comes of age KNOWING that they didn't create the shltload of problems they are asked to deal with. And each generation learns that over time their own generation will divide up on different sides of the political spectrum. And each generation learns that the younger generation that is just becoming politically aware will lump them all together and blame them as a group for the state of things that many of them have actually worked and ARE working to transform. Bottom line is each generation has a lot of learning to do and it takes a life time cuz life just keeps on doling out lessons. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by weracerc on 10/21/10 at 13:51:26 my son who is now 24 and a US Marine was told there are three rules in life: 1 Mind your mouth and manners 2 do what you are told 3 stay out of trouble - do what ever it takes to ensure this rule is never broken He was told at age 12 that if he wanted a car he would have to pay for it and the insurance and he also not allowed to drive until he was 18 (we did not allow the NC progressive license startuing at 15.5 yrs) He got a job saved his money and bought his 1st car $3200 for 1994 Honda Civic and paid the insurance $976 per 6 months for bare minimum liability.....he took very good care of that car and never had any driving issues, no speeding no wrecks no problems. His wife age 19 was not given a car by her parents either - My son bought her first car for her and she proceeded to wreck it, get a speeding ticket in it..........not saying just because it was given to her that these things happened......but the more times a see things just handed over without some effort being put it get it there seems to be a much lower level of concern over what happens to the item...... My step son age 22 was given a $500 van by his mother at age 18 - he has had nothing but isuues DUI's, wrecks, tickets, he has been told to GET OUT of my house and is now living with his girlfriend - he contributes to the household and pays his own way now and he is starting to act like an adult and gaining a much needed level of responsibility....I just hope he continues down the path to a more responsible life....but no matter what he is NOT coming back to live in my house....and his mother agrees. not that any of this has anything to do with the topic but if we hand over free stuff to those come here then they precieve an entitlement to more stuff - instead of the True American Way - get off your butt and go earn an honest living and dont expect anything for free or any handouts. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/21/10 at 14:10:02 When I left home at the ripe old age of 15 my dad said 3 words to me. "Don't Fu+k Up. and ever since I have never made love to a woman while she is on top. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by Lupo on 10/21/10 at 15:08:11 :-?oh-oh............................. ;) |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by tcreeley on 10/21/10 at 16:14:05 Since the 1960's the US has had 0 population growth based on US births and deaths. The growth in our population 240 million to 300 million has been due to our open immigration policy. We have used immigration to provide a source of cheap labor to keep wages down. Even now we encourage immigration for the same reason. Corporations benefit from low wages. (No one else does though!) Whenever the economy is bust, people fight for the few jobs- and are less willing to be tolerant. That is what we have now. |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/21/10 at 16:16:17 27383E3924231222122A38347F4D0 wrote:
I think it had alot to do with complacency,they got fat and lazy all they could do all day was eat sleep screw ,and drink like fishes,debauchery orgy's etc,, more or less like the USA. PS and I think just about the whole population went gay,or was that in Sodom and gamora ? |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mpescatori on 10/22/10 at 02:01:01 6C68626A7569646D686C6478010 wrote:
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D It took me a while to really understand the joke... but WHEW !!! About the Fall of the Roman Empire... Empires come and go, just like a man grows up and grows old. The Roman Empire was born out of a riverslide hamlet next to a ford, and collapsed when it overstretched its borders and allowed so many "barbarians" from the Provinces to enlist in the military, even the Generals were barbarian, and eventually even the Emperors were barbarian generals "elected" by their own army. Sure, some were enlightened rulers, such as Hadrian, Trajan or Vespasian, others were so "odd" (such as Caligula) they were often murdered. Towards the end (the last three centuries of Empire) it was not odd for Rome to celebrate two, three Emperors in one single year... So the Fall of the Empire was caused by its political instability, not by its debauchery. To claim "the people ate themselves to death..." well, in those days you still had to walk wherever you wanted to go, climb up stairs and carry your own loads, no electric tricycles when buying your "Lard-o-Rama" at Walmarts. As for Sodom and Gomorra, they were quite simply merchant cities that refused to pay ransom to whomever came to besiege them, and were riddled with catapults pelting incendiary bombs. This, to the eyes of a beduin, was "fire raining down from the skies" I sincerely doubt there was any hanky panky going on, not anything different from what was going on in 19th Century London or 20th Century NYC. Let's not forget that merchants would cheat their customers way back then just as easily as they cheat ni the present day, so when we read that "the townsfolk went to Lot's house and asked him to give them his guests, that they may welcome them in proper style", that to me is a polite way of saying "hand us those cheats that we may teach them some manners". As for Lot's wife becoming "a pillar of salt", guys, grow up, it's ain idiomatic expression to say she was shocked speechless, and was translated word for word into greek by rabbis who were ordered to translate word by word. Let's not forget that "the chosen people" was the same people who would sacrifice their first born sons to God, sell off kid brothers, cheat older brothers out of their inheritance, declare treacherous war on their own father-in-law and, last but not least, sack and pillage entire villages and kill the entire population down to slaughtering the farm animals themselves. Read Genesis, Exodus and the Book of Joshua. :-X |
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Title: Re: Multiculturism ??? Post by mick on 10/22/10 at 06:26:35 I might have known all that violence came from the bible. |
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