SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Hartman Mod questions /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1287096694 Message started by OntheBoulevard on 10/14/10 at 15:51:33

Title: Hartman Mod questions Post by OntheBoulevard on 10/14/10 at 15:51:33 I'm wanting to do the Hartman mod (A La Mark K) on my 2006 Boulevard. I tried to reference the link for it, but since it's my first post, I'm not allowed. I'm sure somebody here knows what I'm talking about. Basically, you take out the internal baffle of the stock muffler, and leave the external one that surrounds it in. From the sound sample I've heard on You Tube, it give it a nice bassy thump. It looks fairly straight forward to do, but no where do I find whether or not this requires a rejetting of the carburetor? Let me know if any of you have done this, and if you have any sound samples of your own. I also need a left side cover for it. they seem to be hard to come buy, because of it being realitively new.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by verslagen1 on 10/14/10 at 19:15:41 all muff mod's carry the risk of needing a rejet. get a set of jets from lancer and do it.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/10 at 19:19:15 The Hartman? Im just NOw figgerin out what the Heimlich is.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by verslagen1 on 10/14/10 at 19:24:30 http://jonline.org/savage/Tips___How-to_s/Hartman_Muffler_Mod_Details/hartman_muffler_mod_details.htm I also have the pdf from mark k which is very descriptive how-to

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/14/10 at 20:05:56 Yea, thats cool & all, but the Zuki muffler weighs a ton. Im glad mines gone.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by OntheBoulevard on 10/14/10 at 21:39:24 The link that Verslagen1 referenced was the one I was going to reference. It's pretty straight forward on how it's done. It looks like there ought to be someone here that's actually done it, to know if I can do it without getting into the carburetor. If I'm going to do that, I may as well spend the money, and get a different muffler. The thing with that, is there are very few sound samples out there, and I could end up with 5 million dollars worth of mufflers and jets heaped in a pile, and still not get the sound I was looking for. I want it to have a nice low rumble, and that one sounds pretty decent. What muffler did you use Justin, and what did it do for your sound/ performance?

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by verslagen1 on 10/14/10 at 22:11:56 we both have a supertrapp if I remember right. most people say they are done at 80/85, i do that uphill.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/10 at 07:05:13 Supertrapp w/ 14 disks. The sound is very nice, not harsh. It'll roll thru a hospital zone if the throttle is handled right & not bother anyone, or, wick it hard & let it roar. Trust me, you Want to rejet. I have a stage one cam & IIRC, a 150 main, I get 49 MPG, the kid gets 51, I smile more. The TRapp & rejet gave it a nice boost in performance, then the cam went in & almost gave me the same boost again. I think I need to finish tuning it with the jets & I think theres more "In there" without changing any more major parts. Look into getting a fork brace. The handling will be much improved. If ya cant swint a Trapp,, then theres some nice sounding, very attractive & Cheap HD Dyna mufflers out there that have a rumble in them, decreased restriction, etc,, performance booster for cheap,,

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by Ed L. on 10/15/10 at 16:33:13 I did the Hartman mod on my '02's muffler. It was a lot of work and you need to weld the center of the muffler back in the gutted shell. Save yourself some time and effort and just go out and get a sporty muffler and drill out the baffle with a 3/8 or 1/2 bit. Either way you will need a main rejet for the carb and unless you are in love with the big can that comes with the bike a muffler swap is just easier and less work. Just my .02 cents on it.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by OntheBoulevard on 10/17/10 at 01:01:21 Ed L. After you did the Hartman mod, did you like the sound of it? I'm thinking about doing it, just to play with. Did you need to rejet? On the other side of the coin, if over the winter I want to install a new muffler, such as the Super trap, is there a set jet size I need to use per muffler, and is there a how to on the forum for jet installation. Supposedly, it's not supposed to be that hard, and you just have to drop the bowl, but since I've never done it, I don't know. Thanks!

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by Oldfeller on 10/17/10 at 01:54:13 If you have a stock muffler in good shape, leave it that way. Some states are going with mandatory Db testing and soon we will be asking from some of these states "anybody got a stock muffler I can borrow?" They may get shipped around from person to person so annual testing can be done and passed. $20 will buy you a take off Harley Dyna Muffler, which is a pretty good muffler for our bikes (I run one on the fastest Savage on the East Coast).   It is much less trouble than drilling out (and ruining) a good stock muffler which may be quite useful to the list as a whole in its present state.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by verslagen1 on 10/17/10 at 09:18:59 unless the requirement is for the epa marking, otherwise it's more likely we'll figure a baffle to slip in for the testing.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by Oldfeller on 10/17/10 at 09:42:37 Dunno -- most states that have gone completely anal on us want the OEM spec muffler on the bike and it has to also sniff good for CO2 and hydrocarbons to meet the pollution control year spec for the bike. We'd best not be scrapping out all the stock mufflers ....

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by Ed L. on 10/17/10 at 18:13:03 OTB, After doing the Hartman mod the bike sounded deeper but not very loud. I rejetted the carb to a 152.5 at the same time for more performance but the bike ran a little rich till I changed over to a K+N drop in replacement air filter. I picked up a '94 Sporty exhaust system and swapped out the muffler as the next mod. The bike sounded the same as with the gutted stock muffler and ran the same. I tried drilling a 1/4 inch hole in the baffle of the sporty muffler which gave a little more growl to the bike but wasn't very loud. Since the muffler was just about free I didn't worry to much about making it too loud and have ended up with a 1/2 hole in the baffle. I have tinkered around with the engine enought so it is not stock any more and the modified sporty muffler is working good. OF has a good point about keeping the exhaust system stock. If you live in a state with emmission and noise regs for bikes you might want to keep the bike stock. I've never had my bike checked for emmissions either here in Florida or up in Pennsylvania where I bought it so I can't be much help in that area.The Hartman Mod is a lot of work and you will need to pull the muffler to do it. It's just simpler to swap it out

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by OntheBoulevard on 10/17/10 at 19:12:07 I went through a listened to the sound samples. I liked the sound of the Bad Dog over all the rest, but I would imagine it would be incredibly loud. The Jardine was decent, and I liked the Mac Slip on probably the best. Some of the others had a real nice sounding idle, but sounded awful revved up. Others sounded great revved up, and awful on idle. A couple of them sounded like you were listening to a 3 1/2 HP push mower with the muffler rotted off. I like the low thump idle with the low growl rev. I would love to have a bunch of the bikes side by side with the various configurations, and be able to say, "I'll take that one!" I read through the carburetor rejet scenarios, and that seems to be a nightmare. I need a so & so size on a leap year with a full moon, using a thatch Samoan made pot holder for an air filter, while sending it all through a 1" aluminum curtain rod half full of course brillo pads for a muffler! Good God! It looks like as long as these bikes have been out there, there would be something a little more comprehensive on the subject. Then, there's the subjectiveness of what sounds "good". The Dyna sample in the string of samples, I'd be embarrassed to have my 15 HP Wheel Horse sounding like, but the Screamin' Eagle, and the Dyna After Market Turnout samples at the bottom of the page, sounded pretty decent. So now, are we just talking recording quality? It would be nice to know how the bikes are set up that have the Bad dog, and Mac Slip on, to at least have a base line.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by Routy on 10/17/10 at 22:09:04 I just took a sound clip on my drilled exhaust, and it don't sound anything like it actually does. But then, this ain't no hi dollar camera either.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by OntheBoulevard on 10/18/10 at 10:12:06 Maybe I should go at this another way. If one of you has a louder and deeper exhaust they put on, that gives a good bass response, let me know what you had to do to make it that way. I would be willing to a simple rejet, if I could get some real growl, but I don't really care about adding performance, since I'm a new rider. 65 is plenty fast enough for me, and anything over that, seems like I'm on a rocket sled. I don't want the exhaust to be so loud that you couldn't hear yourself scream over it, or where like some Harley riders I know, have to wear ear plugs. I followed my Uncle one time riding a Harley through Columbus, and we couldn't talk to each other in the car over his exhaust! Here in Ohio, it seems like about anything goes on a bike, and you can also ride without a helmet, so emissions or noise are not going to be an issue with doing mods.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/10 at 10:39:26 When the air flow out is increased, the engine will operate differently. It Will run leaner than it is now. It Will sound different. Its tied together, change the way the exhaust works, change the ease with which the engine "breathes". IMO, the cheapest, easiest, best looking & all round "Bang for the Buck" is a Dyna muffler. I went for the Supertrapp, which, frankly isnt very attractive to my eye, but if I had your stated desires, I woulda gone with the Dyna. 20 bux & some head scratchin time. Youll get some increase in power, trust me, it aint gonna wheelie out from under ya..

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by OntheBoulevard on 10/18/10 at 11:48:36 I like the one Dyna sound sample really well, and if it's anywhere close  in reality, to what that sample sounded like, that would work for me. What does it take to make that happen? It's probably not just the muffler. I'd imagine it would take some sort of rjet, maybe a different air cleaner. I'm sure there's a formula for it. Is the mufflers name "Dyno"- or is it Dyno-flow or whatever. Where do you get them, etc? I don't anything about motorcycles, but if you can steer me in the right direction, I can turn a wrench pretty well.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by IN-S40 on 10/18/10 at 11:58:00 The Dyna mufflers are just stock Harley Davidson Dyna mufflers. I just got a set off ebay for $42 shipped that i will be putting on my bike and my girlfriends bike. You want to look for the 65747-94 muffler. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1274566701/10#10 Darren IN-S40

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/18/10 at 13:05:25 Seriously, Its just not a big deal. I understand your willingness & ability to get all shook up about what to do & how to do it. I Know, cuz I Remember my own feelings when I started messin with this thing. Maaan, take a deep breath, relax & understand this, please, Its all gonna be okay & the folks here arent gonna let ya screw your bike up. Youll learn a lot & have fun. Dont be afraid of that bike, enjoy it.. even the parts where your heart gets in your throat, because youve found yourself being put in a position to do things that scare the crap outta you.. just go slow & ask questions.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by OntheBoulevard on 10/18/10 at 17:05:23 Well, I appreciate that. I also appreciate the link to the Dyno muffler installation. I have been enjoying this bike. I liked reading the page on the "lump in the throat" moments. It made me feel a little better about being a newbie, and that others have had the same experiences as I have. It sees like everyone I work with has been riding all their lives, and they have a hard time remembering what it was like to start out, especially if they were just teenagers. I could never afford a bike when I was younger, or I would have certainly started earlier. It has been a wonderful experience so far, experiencing  everything being out in the open. There are a lot of places I have avoided for years that are a pain in the ass to drive on in a car, and slow you down getting to your destination. Now when I go out on the bike, I really have no destination, and get to enjoy the beauty of everything in a whole new way. The Savage/Boulevard, is a great bike to learn on. I would highly recommend it to anyone. It has good power and torque off the line and rides fairly comfortably. It goes good at highway speeds 55 to 65. It's sits low for shorter people like me, and there's not a lot of gimmicks to have to deal with as a beginner. My buddy that kind of got me started in all this, rides a 1200 Harley Sportster, and absolutely loves my handlebars. He has those one that I think are called buck horns that curve down at the ends. They're very uncomfortable when compared to the Boulevard, which are almost like drag bars. It is a light bike, so if there comes the time when you drop it, at least you don't have to get a forklift to get it up off the ground. As I mentioned in the introduction, I bought this bike a couple months ago (or less) for under $2000.00 with 3040 miles on it. I think it's a lot of bike for that money. I was impressed with it the first time I saw it, and knew I was having "THAT ONE", even though I had never seen it, or another Savage/Boulevard in my life. I just stumbled across it on Ebay, and it was in driving distance to go pick up. I had looked at getting a Honda 250 Rebel, but after seeing the Suzuki version of it (CZ?), I knew it was going to be too small even for me.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by stinger on 10/18/10 at 23:58:46 Supertrapp all the way!  I have a question for those who are running 14 discs. I have never ran more than 8 and would like to know if their is a noticeable difference in performance and power. I have heard the Harley, raask, and Jardine mufflers and the supertrapp has the best sound. Nice deep rumble and pretty cool sound when down shifting. A huge difference in performance from the stock muffler.

Title: Re: Hartman Mod questions Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/19/10 at 01:55:40 6 disks is just not enuff.

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