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Message started by suzukirider on 09/21/10 at 19:09:23

Title: octane
Post by suzukirider on 09/21/10 at 19:09:23

What octane do most of you folks put in your bikes?

Title: Re: octane
Post by prechermike on 09/21/10 at 19:16:12

87, the regular gas.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Savage_Amusement on 09/21/10 at 19:18:23

87 all day long, goes down smooter and last longer than 89 10%E.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Charon on 09/21/10 at 19:33:38

I use the 10% ethanol, allegedly 89 octane, because it is a few cents cheaper and seems to work just as well. Come wintertime I'll switch to regular for winter storage. Some say the E-10 gets worse mileage, but I have never been able to clearly measure the difference whether in car or motorcycle. As far as performance, I cannot tell the difference between regular 87 octane and E-10 89 octane.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Paladin. on 09/21/10 at 19:36:59

We have a compression ratio of 8.5:1
A Russian Ural clone of a WWII BMW has a compression ratio of 8.6:1

Not only we can use regular gas, we can even run Mexican regular gas.

Title: Re: octane
Post by bill67 on 09/21/10 at 19:42:05

I use 100% gas, better mileage and better for cab and gas tank,My Suzuki manual on my 1500 says don't use the 10% unless thats all you can get.I don't have the Suzuki manual on the S40 but I'm sure it says the same.

Title: Re: octane
Post by 04 Savage on 09/21/10 at 20:04:55

I also use 87 octane.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Wake51 on 09/22/10 at 00:13:26

I use 93 as that's what the previous owner said he used. Would it be beneficial possibly to switch to a LOWER octane? I'm not sure if the 93 octane offers any perks for this bike.. and obviously if I can pay less for something it will run more smoothly on then it's an obvious choice and I'll make the conversion next time at the pump.

Title: Re: octane
Post by babyhog on 09/22/10 at 05:22:00

I use 87. Started out using 93, but asked the clerk at the station one day if they sell much premium and they said not much at all. If nobody is buying it, its sitting in the ground longer, and I don't wanna use it.
So if you want to use higher octane, try to find a place that sells alot of it so you get fresh stuff.

Title: Re: octane
Post by buttgoat1 on 09/22/10 at 05:48:34

I think the 87 regular is just fine but around here it has 10% ethanol, Ive been running 89 octane which seems (to me) to give better performance with less stumbling. I don't know if it has as much ethanol or just what.

BTW, looks like the feds will be allowing up to 15% ethanol now.
I think that a small percentage does offer some benefits but after that it is detrimental to performance and mileage.

Title: Re: octane
Post by adj_jaker on 09/22/10 at 06:22:52

I started and always put 93 in my bike. I thought it seemed to run better. I notice when I put 87 in it once by mistake and I could definitely tell a difference.

Since it is air-cooled and i think it's less harsh on the engine, shouldn't we run a higher octane since it burns cooler? You all have me curious now. Thanks! :P

Title: Re: octane
Post by J2 on 09/22/10 at 07:57:33

I am not a chemist, but I had the opportunity to ask one about octane and its effect on motor fuel. He told me that higher octane does not necessarily burn cooler or result in less deposit. Higher octane, he said, tends to suppress pre-ignition, so that the engine does not "ping," which means the fuel does not fire in the engine before it is supposed to fire. Higher compression engines need higher octane fuel because they tend to pre-ignite. These lil Suzys are not high compression engines, and the owner's manual specifies 87 octane fuel. I run 89, simply because it seems to my ear to run a little better.

Title: Re: octane
Post by bill67 on 09/22/10 at 08:03:56

Higher octane will run slightly cooler but you will have less power.

Title: Re: octane
Post by BuckHMCC on 09/22/10 at 08:07:26

Engine is designed for 87 octane. That's what the engineers say. 87 octane delivers more energy per unit than higher octane grades, so if you use it you'll get higher miles-per-gallon and therefore cheaper operating costs. Higher grades exist to prevent pre-ignition (pinging) in high-compression engines. Stock Savage/S40 certainly does not have a high-compression engine.

If you can find 100% gas (no ethanol) use it. Some of us do not have that option.

Shell advertises the same detergents in all grades. I use Shell when I can (it's a top-tier gas, see http://www.toptiergas.com). There's no cleaning advantage to go with grades higher than the called-for 87 octane.

Title: Re: octane
Post by J2 on 09/22/10 at 08:10:52

87 delivers more energy? Interesting. How do you know that?

Title: Re: octane
Post by BuckHMCC on 09/22/10 at 08:24:26

There's lots to read on this topic. It's been kicked around for a long time. Google 'lower octane higher mpg' for starters.

If you don't believe me, do your own experiment. Run about 10 gallons of 93 octane and carefully calculate your mpg (fill your tank to the top at the start and at the end). Then run about 10 gallons of 87 and do the same. Ethanol makes a difference, so run your experiment with gas of the same ethanol content. Report your results, please.

Title: Re: octane
Post by J2 on 09/22/10 at 08:58:02

OK. I did some reading, and the overwhelming opinion is that you will get the best mileage using fuel for which your engine has been tuned. The LS650-S40 has been tuned to use 87. One test report showed that a vehicle tuned for 87 lost 4 percent of its mpg using 89 and 9 percent using 93.
As I said, my ear has been telling me that my Suzy likes 89 better. That is purely anecdotal and has more to do with feeling than fact. I get 50 mpg on the little iron horse now. I will try two or three tanks of 87 and report my results ... assuming however, that the thumper doesn't start shake rattle and roll with the introduction of the 87 fuel. I will (obviously) use the same brand from the same service station. I currently use BP, and I am such a creature of habit I almost always buy at the same station near my home.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Lupo on 09/22/10 at 23:21:35

O.K. ..I'll throw down here and probably get everybody as confused as me. My bike seems to run the same performance wise on both high and low octane. It seems I'm getting better mileage with the cheap stuff but a little backfiring when chopping the throttle. The good stuff doesn't backfire at all. Now the point to ponder. High octane burns longer then low octane yet better mileage should mean better efficiency. Why the backfiring (though it is just a little).

Title: Re: octane
Post by BuckHMCC on 09/23/10 at 05:56:39

Lupo, what you report on backfiring seems to make sense. Higher octane grades burn more slowly and are more difficult to ignite. Unburnt gas is accumulating in the exhaust no matter what octane grade you are using. The lower octane grade is more likely to ignite in the exhaust system and backfire than the higher octane grade. Lower octane gas is designed to ignite more easily, so more backfiring.

Have you turned your idle circuit adjustment screw (right side of carb, high up near engine intake sleeve, under a brass plug) counterclockwise (CCW) 1/4 turn? This got rid of most of my backfiring on 87 octane. (I still get over 50 mpg if I take it easy.)

I'm not sure why this works the way it does. Doing so should make for more unburnt fuel accumulating in the exhaust. Maybe the richer mixture lowers the temperature of whatever is igniting the mix. Lowers it just enough that it's less likely to ignite?

Title: Re: octane
Post by einheit13 on 09/23/10 at 14:31:22

87 produces more usable power than 89 and 93 because it has a lower flash point which results in a better/more complete burn. the 89 and 93 are for higher compression engines that can and will ignite the fuel charge by compression force (creates heat when squeezed) before the plug ignites so you get the awful knock or ping (like a diesel). You can actually see the differences on a dyno. You can make higher compression engines work on 87 if you coat the piston tops and valves (some times) with a ceramic type coating to reduce the temps. Spark advance/timing plays a large role in this equation too.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Lupo on 09/23/10 at 14:51:17

704751597A7F7171320 wrote:

As I said it is very slight and only if I chop the throttle as done on some windy roads. I'm getting 48 mpg playing with it and I'm sure a more mature 59 year old could do better. Now you do give me an excuse to mess with the tune a bit and go for a ride later. When I adjusted the mixture screw I had premium in the tank. 8-)
This octane topic could be as :o as an oil thread.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Lupo on 09/23/10 at 14:55:37

262A2D2B262A377270430 wrote:

And plug heat range. ;)

Title: Re: octane
Post by einheit13 on 09/23/10 at 15:16:11

And gap :)

Title: Re: octane
Post by bill67 on 09/23/10 at 15:29:12

A friend of mine a few years back had a 1992 Cadillac Eldorado,It called for 92 octane she aways used 87 octane,she drove it closed to 100000 miles and never had a problem with it.If you don't floor a car all the way it want ping.

Title: Re: octane
Post by einheit13 on 09/23/10 at 18:25:11

floor the car or put under heavy load

Title: Re: octane
Post by bill67 on 09/23/10 at 18:33:36

Floor the car all the way.

Title: Re: octane
Post by JohnBoy on 09/23/10 at 18:34:30

87 octane in in the Savage, the Helix, two Kawasaki Voyagers, and a Goldwing...never had a problem with this octane.

Now if you are going to let your bike sit you might want to try something different.

Title: Re: octane
Post by einheit13 on 09/23/10 at 18:47:49

496C6B6D416C7A030 wrote:

I run 87 and 89 in my 1200 sporty. 93 made no difference in mileage or performance so I save a little coin...for oil...

Title: Re: octane
Post by bill67 on 09/23/10 at 18:55:39

I've always used 87 in all my bikes except the 1980 V50 Moto Guzzi which called for 98 octane Standard Oil gas work the best it would ping 1 time and no more all other gas brands would keep pinging .I once found 95 octane leaded gas in southern Ill. but it would ping on that the same as other gas.If I put in octane booster it did have more power but I didn't use it except once.Standard is now BP.Or was bought out by BP.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Lupo on 09/23/10 at 20:01:42

7F7471712B2A1D0 wrote:

I've always used 87 in all my bikes except the 1988 V50 Moto Guzzi

:-?V-50? That's what started my love affair with Guzzi. 34 years now and going strong. That love of torque steered me to doing a Savage as a town bike. Oh..sorry, octane.

Title: Re: octane
Post by suzukirider on 09/26/10 at 13:27:08

I've been running high octane but after reading thru this thread, reading what Suzuki recommends, I see no reason to continue paying the higher price. I thought higher octane might keep it from back firing but that hasn't happened and the mileage is about the same. It just seems to have good days (making all that noise cause it is so happy to be out on the road) and bad days I guess ::)

Title: Re: octane
Post by verslagen1 on 09/26/10 at 13:37:46

Well if backfiring was what you needed to fix why didn't you say so...

Shutdown bang... 1/8 turn CCW of the idle mixture screw
Shutdown KERPOW... 1/4 turn CCW
Shift bang... check header bolts, muffler clamp or header gasket
Engine braking grumble pop... enjoy!

Title: Re: octane
Post by Boofer on 09/27/10 at 20:00:05

I didn't know I had the grumble pops, but I did know I enjoy them! I run 93 oct mostly. Started running it last spring in my mowers and weed eater, chainsaws on advice of people who use them for a living. Savage is slower. Other stuff runs smoother. Don't know why--just does. Grumble pops! I have a new word to aggravate my teen daughter when she gets gripey.

Title: Re: octane
Post by RC on 09/27/10 at 20:27:48

87 Just like the Suzuki book tells us, more energy per unit you know,for the record my bike almost never backfires, by the way grumble pops are not backfires just a great motor letting you know it's there. Love this ride for what it is.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Lupo on 09/28/10 at 19:31:27

I was grumble popin' mine today. I like how when I get home and shut it down I get a Whooph from the exhaust. "My pipe tinks, therefore I am".

Title: Re: octane
Post by Gyrobob on 09/29/10 at 17:23:36

Using higher octane than 87 does two things for you. 1. Makes your wallet thinner. 2. Makes your bike get less mileage and possibly less power.

The only time using a higher octane would help is when there is something wrong with the bike and it detonates (pings) on lower octane.

Title: Re: octane
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/30/10 at 04:36:19

Some folks run premium during really hot weather

Title: Re: octane
Post by J2 on 10/04/10 at 07:30:01

I switched from 89 to 87. First tank ... no change in mpg (50) or performance. We will see what the second tank brings.

I do get more backfires, obviously because of the change in the flash point of the fuel. These pipe farts consist of both pops and outright bangs. They occur when I disengage the clutch and roll free, when the engine is backing down from higher RPM to idle RPM. Lets the traffic know I am there. I am just a little bit concerned, however, that this backfiring behavior may damage something. I blew a glass pack right off my old hot rod nearly 50 years ago! Anybody think the backfires will harm the Suzy (06 S40)?

Title: Re: octane
Post by Serowbot on 10/04/10 at 07:48:54

Grumble pops won't hurt anything, and are normal in a big thumper....
Kerpoows!,.. gunshot crack type afterfires can blow out weak packing and exhaust gaskets, etc...

Title: Re: octane
Post by J2 on 10/04/10 at 08:09:30

Ah, well. I hear the carb screws on these bikes are plugged, so I would have to drill out the plug before I could adjust that ... at least that's what I hear. I have also heard that it is real easy to drill into the screw while drilling out the plug, and then you buy a new carb. I would tend to leave the mixture alone if I am keeping it stock, since the manufacturer seems to intend that it be mixed that way. My 150cc Kymco scooter did the pop-pop routine until a mechanic set the valves correctly. So, I wonder if the backfire on the Suzy could be caused by valve setting (bike runs great). I also wonder if the carb might be a little dirty. My bike sat up for a number of years before I bought it, with 1200 miles on it. Is is kosher to use some kind of carb/FI cleaner in the fuel? Wonder if that might help. I hear talk about Sea Foam, but I don't know what that is.

Title: Re: octane
Post by Serowbot on 10/04/10 at 08:23:29

Seafoam's very popular... some folks swear by it...
Give it a try... I've tried it a few times but, never had luck with it... But many of the bikes I fool with have been sitting a year or more...

Title: Re: octane
Post by prechermike on 10/04/10 at 08:25:50

760E3C0 wrote:

J2, the adjuster is behind a plug, but it is not too hard to get it out. I even did it, with no damage. (Ride out my way and we will drill that plug out, if you want.) I have not heard anyone say the popping had anythign to do with the valves, but who knows. It seems the consensus is our bikes run lean from the factory, to meet the EPA guidelines. Carb cleaner would be fine, I am sure. seafoam is a fuel additive, carb cleaner wonder product that some love :D and some hate >:( It certainly won't hurt anything, you can get it from wal-mart or about any other parts place. I have used it through my bike, maybe it helped a little, i think so, but that is just my perception.

Title: Re: octane
Post by prechermike on 10/04/10 at 08:27:40

Hey, I just made serious thumper status! :D

Title: Re: octane
Post by J2 on 10/04/10 at 08:49:04

Thanks for the info. Washington NC would be a nice ride from Raleigh. Might take you up on that.

For all yall who don't speak Nawth Karolinian, we be awl good neighbors rown heah ... just like Andy ... and the county mounties are just like Barney. Yall come see us, ya heah!

Title: Re: octane
Post by prechermike on 10/04/10 at 12:58:51

4A32000 wrote:

Cool! Yeah, it's a Nawth Karolina thang!

Title: Re: octane
Post by J2 on 10/29/10 at 11:48:27

OK ... I promised a report on switching from 89 to 87 octane. Been through several tanks full now ... no difference in MPG ... no discernible difference in the bike's performance ... other than more backfires. The 87 gas does have a lower flash point, so it is going to fire more easily in the exhaust pipe. My 2006 S40 does not backfire all the time ... just perhaps two or three times per half hour. I see that the PO did drill out the "air screw" plug, so that is accessible. If I feel it necessary, I will screw that all the way in and then out close to 3 turns (believe that's what has been recommended). At present, I don't believe the backfires represent a serious threat to the engine. Besides, winter is closing in, and the pipe is cooler. Believe it or not, backfiring has been slightly reduced. Gittin my long johns out.

Title: Re: octane
Post by verslagen1 on 10/29/10 at 12:59:36

3 turns is the recommended MAXIMUM.
careful as you turn in, turning it too hard will freeze it in darn near permanantly.
Count as you turn in, then back it out same amount.
3 barks per half hour not bad. When does it bark?
At shutoff, about an 1/8 turn CCW.
At gear shifts, check header bolts, muffler clamp.
At decel, learn to love it.
Anything else is abnormal.
And some mufflers depending on construction or mod's can't be fixed.
You knew the job was dangerous when you took it fred.