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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> The Cafe >> 9 11 /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1284249085 Message started by buttgoat1 on 09/11/10 at 16:51:24 |
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Title: 9 11 Post by buttgoat1 on 09/11/10 at 16:51:24 Did anyone do anything to remember this day? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/11/10 at 18:47:52 Not really,.... I watched a couple documentaries on the History channel... ... but honestly,.. as shocking and heart sinking as that day was 9 years ago,... ten's of times as many people are killed on the roads and murdered every year... I do remember thinking as I was watching it, that 10 or 20 or 30 thousand people were dying as I watched.... it just turned out, not to be so... ... and I also think that amplifying it's magnitude and impact, only serves to aggrandize the scumbags that did it.... Just my thoughts... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/11/10 at 20:08:21 I had my thots about it. Knowing what I know about it makes it hard for me to share much with the dumb masses on the anniversary & its importance, since they believe the BSstory & I know better. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by PerrydaSavage on 09/12/10 at 02:07:32 In the hours and days following the 9/11 attacks, my home Province of Nfld., Canada, played a huge humanitarian role by providing a safe haven, food, shelter, friendship and comfort to tens of thousands of air passengers who, inbound to the U.S.A. that day were ordered to land here because of closed air space ... so I remember though a faction of humankind displayed it's truly ugly heart that day by killing thousands of innocent people, we did the neighborly thing and extended a helping hand ... 9/11 was a terrible tragedy that not only claimed innocent lives, but sadly changed the world we live in and not for the better ... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by LANCER on 09/12/10 at 02:32:55 it has occupied my mind all week then there is that issue with building a mosque just down the street from the SITE this really stirs my soul negatively |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Wolfman on 09/12/10 at 02:36:25 Yeah i remember it, say a lil prayer for those lost every year. Still remember watching the second plane flying into the towers. Watching the towers come down and people running for their lives, the cloud of dust and smoke. The long agoniseing days afterward as they searched for very very few survivors. The anger most folks felt, many wanting to glass the mid-east indiscriminately. Thousands of people who had friends, family or knew someone in the towers who waited for hours and days with a fadeing hope in their hearts. Those crazy cannucks to the north takeing in complete strangers and takeing care of them for days afterward. Takeing my 4 year old outside to show her a sky that had'nt been that empty since the wright brothers flew at kittyhawk. And telling her to remember. The news first forecasting possibly 50,000 dead then lowering the count by the hour.( There are on average or were, 180,000 people in and around the towers on any given day back then) The terrorist had'nt fouled up and hit early there would of been MANY more casualties. Yeah i remember it. Sometimes everyday, definitely every 9/11. Never Forget, Never Forgive. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/12/10 at 06:00:45 The terrorist had'nt fouled up and hit early there would of been MANY more casualties Yea, no kiddin. They took the time to figure out how to hijack all those planes, had guys training to be pilots, some even trained on our very own naval air stations, whewww,, musta been a lot of work to accomplish that, & THEN, after all that planning, they didnt even LOOK to see when would be the best time to strike to kill the most people... aint that sumpin?? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/12/10 at 06:07:37 When I think of 911 I think of what the greed of oil money can do to some people. Nothing will stand in their way. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Wolfman on 09/12/10 at 11:07:10 Yeah they had a timeline, they just got ahead of themselves. Ask any soldier, no plan goes as planned. 10-15 minutes would of made a huge differance in casualties. They barely had enough training to keep the planes in the air AFTER reg pilots had taken them up. Trained pilots with air crews and ground crews and a schedule they run EVERY DAY cant keep a timeline today. And you expected terrorist with very minimal training to keep THEIR timeline?? ::) |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/12/10 at 13:25:58 Watching theta;lking head explain how Solomon Bros. buildin had collapsed into its own footprint about 20 minutes Prior to itfalling was a bit eerie. Almost as if someone knew something,, huhh? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/12/10 at 13:50:24 People who accept the story of 9/11 simply have no understanding of what happens to metal when it gets hot. It isnt like a Zener diode, holding back the voltage till it gets to a spot where it breaks down.Metal starts to sag slowly & starts to sag worse as the heat climbs. Heat cant distribute itself thru a structure evenly. In fact, the strongest points, that require the most heat to compromise them, are the hardest points to get fire into. The corners. Fire is chaotic. Damage was asymetrical & the collapses were symmetrical. Inconsistent with logic &reason. Inconsistent with historically proven events. Building 7 wasnt hit by a plane, yet, it collapsed. None of this stuff makes sense to anyone who understands how things actually work. Maybe thats why there's over 1,000 architects & engineers promoting a REAL investigation. AAaaand theres the statements by the 9/11 commission folks,, who say it wasnt an investigation, but a coverup.. Thursday, September 9, 2010 The Anniversary of 9/11 Don't want to hear this? Tough. Grow up. 9/11 Commissioners: •The 9/11 Commission's co-chairs said that the 9/11 Commissioners knew that military officials misrepresented the facts to the Commission, and the Commission considered recommending criminal charges for such false statements (free subscription required) •9/11 Commission co-chair Lee Hamilton says "I don't believe for a minute we got everything right", that the Commission was set up to fail, that people should keep asking questions about 9/11, and that the 9/11 debate should continue •9/11 Commissioner Timothy Roemer said "We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting" •9/11 Commissioner Max Cleland resigned from the Commission, stating: "It is a national scandal"; "This investigation is now compromised"; and "One of these days we will have to get the full story because the 9-11 issue is so important to America. But this White House wants to cover it up" •9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey said that "There are ample reasons to suspect that there may be some alternative to what we outlined in our version . . . We didn't have access . . . ." He also said that the investigation depended too heavily on the accounts of Al Qaeda detainees who were physically coerced into talking •And the Senior Counsel to the 9/11 Commission (John Farmer) - who led the 9/11 staff's inquiry - recently said "At some level of the government, at some point in time...there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened". He also said "I was shocked at how different the truth was from the way it was described .... The tapes told a radically different story from what had been told to us and the public for two years.... This is not spin. This is not true." And he said: "It's almost a culture of concealment, for lack of a better word. There were interviews made at the FAA's New York center the night of 9/11 and those tapes were destroyed. The CIA tapes of the interrogations were destroyed. The story of 9/11 itself, to put it mildly, was distorted and was completely different from the way things happened" If even the 9/11 Commissioners don't buy the official story, why do you? Senior intelligence officers: •Former military analyst and famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg said that the case of a certain 9/11 whistleblower is "far more explosive than the Pentagon Papers". He also said that the government is ordering the media to cover up her allegations about 9/11. And he said that some of the claims concerning government involvement in 9/11 are credible, that "very serious questions have been raised about what they [U.S. government officials] knew beforehand and how much involvement there might have been", that engineering 9/11 would not be humanly or psychologically beyond the scope of the current administration, and that there's enough evidence to justify a new, "hard-hitting" investigation into 9/11 with subpoenas and testimony taken under oath (see this and this) •A 27-year CIA veteran, who chaired National Intelligence Estimates and personally delivered intelligence briefings to Presidents Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush, their Vice Presidents, Secretaries of State, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and many other senior government officials (Raymond McGovern) said “I think at simplest terms, there’s a cover-up. The 9/11 Report is a joke” •A 29-year CIA veteran, former National Intelligence Officer (NIO) and former Director of the CIA's Office of Regional and Political Analysis (William Bill Christison) said “I now think there is persuasive evidence that the events of September did not unfold as the Bush administration and the 9/11 Commission would have us believe (and see this) •A number of intelligence officials, including a CIA Operations Officer who co-chaired a CIA multi-agency task force coordinating intelligence efforts among many intelligence and law enforcement agencies (Lynne Larkin) sent a joint letter to Congress expressing their concerns about “serious shortcomings,” “omissions,” and “major flaws” in the 9/11 Commission Report and offering their services for a new investigation (they were ignored) •A decorated 20-year CIA veteran, who Pulitzer-Prize winning investigative reporter Seymour Hersh called "perhaps the best on-the-ground field officer in the Middle East”, and whose astounding career formed the script for the Academy Award winning motion picture Syriana (Robert Baer) said that "the evidence points at" 9/11 having had aspects of being an inside job •The Division Chief of the CIA’s Office of Soviet Affairs, who served as Senior Analyst from 1966 - 1990. He also served as Professor of International Security at the National War College from 1986 - 2004 (Melvin Goodman) said "The final [9/11 Commission] report is ultimately a coverup" If even our country's top intelligence officers don't buy the official story, why do you? Congressmen: •According to the Co-Chair of the Congressional Inquiry into 9/11 and former Head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Bob Graham, an FBI informant had hosted and rented a room to two hijackers in 2000 and that, when the Inquiry sought to interview the informant, the FBI refused outright, and then hid him in an unknown location, and that a high-level FBI official stated these blocking maneuvers were undertaken under orders from the White House (confirmed here) •Current Democratic U.S. Senator Patrick Leahy said "The two questions that the congress will not ask . . . is why did 9/11 happen on George Bush's watch when he had clear warnings that it was going to happen? Why did they allow it to happen?" •Current Republican Congressman Ron Paul calls for a new 9/11 investigation and states that "we see the [9/11] investigations that have been done so far as more or less cover-up and no real explanation of what went on" •Current Democratic Congressman Dennis Kucinich hints that we aren't being told the truth about 9/11 •Current Republican Congressman Jason Chafetz says that we need to be vigilant and continue to investigate 9/11 •Former Democratic Senator Mike Gravel states that he supports a new 9/11 investigation and that we don't know the truth about 9/11 •Former Republican Senator Lincoln Chaffee endorses a new 9/11 investigation •Former U.S. Democratic Congressman Dan Hamburg doesn't believe the official version of events •Former U.S. Republican Congressman and senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, and who served six years as the Chairman of the Military Research and Development Subcommittee Curt Weldon has shown that the U.S. tracked hijackers before 9/11, is open to hearing information about explosives in the Twin Towers, and is open to the possibility that 9/11 was an inside job If there is bipartisan questioning of the official story, why aren't you questioning it? Other government officials: •U.S. General, Commanding General of U.S. European Command and Supreme Allied Commander Europe, decorated with the Bronze Star, Silver Star, and Purple Heart (General Wesley Clark) said "We've never finished the investigation of 9/11 and whether the administration actually misused the intelligence information it had. The evidence seems pretty clear to me. I've seen that for a long time" •Former Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter (Morton Goulder), former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism (Edward L. Peck), and former US Department of State Foreign Service Officer (J. Michael Springmann), as well as a who's who of liberals and independents) jointly call for a new investigation into 9/11 •Former Federal Prosecutor, Office of Special Investigations, U.S. Department of Justice under Presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan; former U.S. Army Intelligence officer, and currently a widely-sought media commentator on terrorism and intelligence services (John Loftus) says "The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defense of incompetence" •The Group Director on matters of national security in the U.S. Government Accountability Office said that President Bush did not respond to unprecedented warnings of the 9/11 disaster and conducted a massive cover-up instead of accepting responsibility •Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan (Col. Ronald D. Ray) said that the official story of 9/11 is "the dog that doesn't hunt" •The former director of the FBI (Louis Freeh) says there was a cover up by the 9/11 Commission If top government officials are skeptical, why aren't you? Numerous other politicians, judges, legal scholars, and attorneys also question at least some aspects of the government's version of 9/11. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/12/10 at 16:35:01 But JOG we had to have a reason to go after Iraq's oil,The towers came down by controlled demolition, Not by the airplanes running into them.Fire burns up not down. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mick on 09/12/10 at 21:14:43 I have always had my doubts,it did seem real strange to me thay both buildings came down as if professionals had set explosive devices. But for max damage woulden't you want the buildings to fall to one side or the other causing colateral damage on the ground ? The way they fell looked like a demolision I saw in Vegas once. Justin I know nothing about metals and how they react under different extreem conditions, Arent you a welder ? You would know I guess. The next question is Why ? I was a very good plan made perfect becuse the terrorists were all suicidel. Perhaps the whole perpose of the attack was to put a spanner in the works of the American financial machine, You all have to admit it worked, this country will never be the same,it has cost us all billions and billions of dollars. And then the idiotic war that bush started ,something else that needs looking into ,WMDs,my a$$. I supose this will mean investigation after investigation,just like the Kennedy assasination. PS,do you think the terrorists knew that well over 70% of the workers were jewish ? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by kimchris1 on 09/13/10 at 05:30:28 I hope to never forget that day. No matter the reason behind the planes hitting the two towers, many innocent lives were lost. Family members of the victim's, lives were and have remained altered as with many around the u.s. I don't think a Mosque being allowed to be built there is a good idea either. I watch the memorial services each year if I can. Again it is a reminder that in a matter of a few seconds or mins. Our lives can be changed.. kim |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/13/10 at 05:38:48 After John Kennedy was killed they said the warren files would be opened in 50 years and we would know who shot him and why.Why did we have to wait 50 years for the government to tell us.I think 50 years is in 2012. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mornhm - FSO on 09/13/10 at 05:57:58 You want a really good conspiracy theory to go along with this? What if I told you that there was a number of structural engineering studies that determined that yep, this was exactly how this type of building would fail and that these studies were supressed, because there are a number of other large buildings around with this design (flaw) that would fail in the same catastrophic manner with just a regular fire (flying the airplane into the side didn't really do much to the structure). What if I told you these studies were done before 9-11. The last part is not true, and the studies were not supressed (most conspiracy theorists just don't want to hear what engineers say - "don't confuse the issue with facts") but it sure makes the conspiracy part more interesting doesn't it. By the way, we observed a minute of silence before my sons soccer game on Saturday. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/13/10 at 06:41:18 Locla politicians did organize memorial services in many cities here in Italy, even though we all agree (WE meaning HERE in ITALY) that the facts just don't add up. Waiving aside the conspiracy theory, the facts simply do not match the consequences - just like you can't bake the Pillsbury Man to produce a Michelin Man, if you know what I mean. Still, 1.6 MILLION dead in Iraq is a lot of collateral damage for something they had no business with... I'll omit the figures for Afghanistan... Blaming the poppy farmers for 9/11 is like blaming the Boston Tea Party on the Tennessee trapper... To each, his own. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/13/10 at 07:11:26 0F0D100C0A0F620 wrote:
Id say thats not reasonable, based on my experiences with everything Ive ever done with metal. Ya DONT get symmetrical failure with ASymmetrical damage, ever, |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by PerrydaSavage on 09/13/10 at 07:20:16 I love a good conspiracy theory for entertainment purposes ONLY (i.e. Roswell, the Moon Landings, et al) ... but there is no way, no how that I can believe the U.S. Government or any of it's Departments had anything to do with orchestrating the horror that transpired on Sept. 11th, 2001 ... to believe otherwise defies logic and common sense. Democratic governments DO NOT knowingly stand aside while thousands of their innocent citizens are murdered ... let alone actively participate in their deaths! The conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 are complete lunacy! :o |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/13/10 at 07:37:35 aaahhh... ...right. As does the Spanish-American war being declared in 1898 because the USS Maine misteriously exploded in Havana harbor - when Spain was the one who least wanted a problem with the US. Strike 1 Or like when the RMS Lusitania was sunk by (reportedly) a German U-Boot in 1915, when records proved she was being used to smuggle armaments to the UK to support their war effort (for the record; by International Law, the Laws of the Sea and Humanitarian Law (aka the Geneva Convention), any civilian vessel or vehicle transporting weapons, ammunitions or parts thereof, constitutes a legitimete military target) (The ship's Captain, Capt. Dow, protested the Lusitania was being converted into an armed cruiser - and was relieved of his command) Strike 2 Or like when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on a Sunday morning, when all the gunships were in harbor, but somehow the Enterprise and its entire carrier Group was at sea, hundreds of miles to the north, on a surprise military exercise... ...on a Sunday morning ??? Strike 3 Now we have the Twin Towers... the Conspirationists, given the precedents, are having a ball. :-X |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by PerrydaSavage on 09/13/10 at 07:45:47 mpescatori ... all of your examples are again just more "conspiracy theory" junk my Italian friend ... I stand by my post above ... the Government of the United States of America had NOTHING to do with orchestrating the downing of the 4 airliners, the destruction of the Twin Towers and surrounding buildings, nor the resulting deaths on the morning of Sept. 11th, 2001. Now, I won't say that the reaction of Western Governments (the U.S. Govt. in particular, but the U.K. & Cdn. govts also) to the events of 9/11 have been totally logical or effective ... but that is a whole other topic ... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mornhm - FSO on 09/13/10 at 08:12:26 485751564B4C7D4D7D45575B10220 wrote:
Justin, Your examples of how pieces of metal fail don't really apply. Simply put, a building is not built from a solid piece of metal. It is a structure and the structure is designed to spread stresses around evenly to the load bearing members (this is why we can build skyscrapers that aren't solid with a footprint about the same size as the height and with a point at the top - think pyramids). When one or more of the members loses its load bearing capacity the structure will distribute the stresses to the remaining members until the capacity of the load bearing structure is exceeded, total failure is also distributed (or symetrical). Gravity pulls straight down, and in this case caused the building to collapse almost straight down. The forces on the bottom structure caused by the impact of the upper structure coming straight down exceeded the load bearing capacity in a spectacular fashion. The buildings fell down, not because of the heat (that caused members to fail), but because the structure of the building was compromised in a way that allow the weight of the building to come to bear on the non-load bearing interior of the building. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/13/10 at 08:21:24 The same ones that were fooled by 911 are the sames ones fooled that Iraq had WMD. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by PerrydaSavage on 09/13/10 at 08:39:27 Yes, the WMD "excuse" for the invasion of Iraq was just that, an excuse ... the events of 9/11 provided the impetus as it were ... one might suppose that one of the real reasons for the U.S. going into Iraq was to have a ready army on the doorstep of Iran, whose nuclear ambitions and potential threat were/are well know to Western Intelligence. After The Gulf War of the early 90's the 2 stringent no-fly zones, economic embargo, not to mention spy satellites & drones, etc. would've ensured that Saddam would never again stockpile WMD's ... that's only common sense b'y ... Afghanistan on the other hand may have been neccessary as that was where Bin Laden was reportedly hiding out ... the mistake by Western Govts (Canada included) may have been to get themselves mired into a situation that is unwinnable in the conventional sense ... look what happened to the USSR there for instance ... immediately following 9/11 the United States had a very good idea of where Bin Laden was situated in Afghanistan and should have used that opportinity to send a strong message ... a tactical nuke into the mountains where B.L. was hiding could've been that message ... sure it may not have killed him (he was in a cave after all) and all you might have gotten were some goats and a few of B.L.'s terrorists, but the message would have been STRONG ... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/13/10 at 08:46:27 Iran has the right to protect them selfs from evil countries Like the USA and Israel. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/13/10 at 09:55:39 ... a building rigged and wired for demolition, looks very much like a building rigged and wired for demolition.... You can't hide all that, and you can't do it without anyone noticing... ... plus,... you either have to imagine that they waited for the top to start to collapse, before blowing the charges at the bottom,... which would be redundant... ... or,... that they set the charges at the 80th floor, and knew in advance, precisely where a jetliner traveling the speed of bullet would hit,.... and that it would hit without damaging the wiring and demolition set-up... Absurd... and I'm hardly the person to defend GW and his motley crew... I wouldn't intellectually put it past them,... it just couldn't be done... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Starlifter on 09/13/10 at 10:09:37 They knew... They let it happen They used it to go for the Iraqi oil May they rot in Hell! |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/13/10 at 10:12:18 ... not to mention,... "In for a penny, in for a pound",... once you accept the conspiracy theory, you have have to include buildings 1, and 2, and 7, and the lone jetliner, and the Pentagon... all coordinated at the same time... with background covers prepared for every "alleged" passenger on every plane in place... ... and then you trigger all this into action, while GW sits reading to kids in Florida, looking a complete fool... The more you think about it,.. the sillier the idea gets... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/13/10 at 11:20:54 I would say Florida was a pretty safe place to be,Why didn't they hit the White House first,Because it gave them time to get out,If I was doing it the WH the Pentagon then the Towers. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by buttgoat1 on 09/13/10 at 14:25:01 I'm with Serow, the logistics of doing all that in secrecy, and having the planes hit the right floors, right time, etc. yannow a govt agency would screw it up..... and if they did, someone would know something and would blow the whistle on something so heinous. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/13/10 at 15:32:14 how do you know they hit the right floors? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by LostArtist on 09/13/10 at 18:11:35 conspiracy theories are wishful thinking, especially in this case. as said before, these were structures, not just steel, they had tons and tons and tons of concrete on top of steel being heated by the 1100 degree fire of jet fuel and being weakened, there is no reason those buildings couldn't have collapsed just the way they did. Yes GW took advantage of the attack but I don't think he had any idea it was going to happen, maybe rumblings in the intelligence community but nothing to his level. the simplest explanation is often the correct one, deal with it |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/13/10 at 19:36:47 The simplest explanation is control demolition,that fuel was probability burned up in less than 30 seconds.Those explosions down be low were just delayed jet fuel exploding. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by WebsterMark on 09/13/10 at 23:36:47 Star; you've expressed a lot of nonsense in the past but this one is over the top, even for you, which is saying a lot. I'm not sure there are words to correctly express the pathetic level to which you've sunk. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/14/10 at 01:29:42 353E3B3B6160570 wrote:
I wouldn't let sarcasm get the better of you, but on the other hand you do have a point - oddly !!! Since 1945 the USA has declared war, or joined / started more conflicts than the USSR and China put together. That's in history books, not Wikipedia. Israel was allowed to exist because the UK had no way (nor any desire) to counter Stern and other terrorist groups which ravaged Jordan. To justify the existence of modern Israel on the gorunds of King David, is like justifying that an Italian Prince should be King of Jerusalem, or that an English Prince should rule over Bordeaux... ...or that the US should get out of Georgia and give it back to the Seminoles. Please be informed that Zionism was more than wishful thinking for peace-loving jews, it was a political theory which used, in the 1920s and 1930s, the same guerrilla tactics later used by Sendero Luminoso in 1970s South America, just to name one. Israel, historically speaking, is an artificial nation, created by a stroke of the pen in the UN and populated by imported immigrants. Now, IRAN... Again, look at history books: "Persia" of old was at perennial war with Greece - so the Greeks say, but in reality Persia of old was the one most stable empire in the world in those days. Alexander the Great's Empire, by contrast, dissolved at his death. Persia was successfully independent and never expanded dangerously east nor west - to the east, the Chinese and Moghul Empires, to the westm, the Caliphates (not THOSE guys were expansionints, they got all the way to Spain and were stopped at Poitiers) and the Byzantine Roman Empire of the East. In these last 500 years, Persia has more or less minded its own business, relatively speaking, while England, Spain, France, Portugal and the Netherlands all raced for worldwide conquest. All in all, Ahmedinejad is just like your neighbor's noisy dog, he will bark at everybody but is rarely seen outside his own fence. As for Iran's nukes.. anybody care to justify why Israel CAN have nukes and CAN fly & bomb foreign plants (aka war), but Iran can't build its own reactor? Unsightly as it may seem, the situation is extremely lopsided. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/14/10 at 01:33:38 5A7D687B65606F7D6C7B090 wrote:
Both the Mossad and MI6 informed the CIA that OBL was in the Sudan in 2000, but the CIA replied they weren't interested. Then he was in Somalia, but they left him alone. Then, 9/11, and all hell broke loose. Now, for the spoils of war. I'll omit any comment on Iraqi oil, which is NOT metered (i.e., nobody knows how many wells work, how much oil is pulled, and how much is sold to whom) Afghanistan has teh world's largest deposits of lithium. What is lithium ? It's an extremely rare metal used to make... everlasting miniaturized batteries, like those in PCs, cellphonnes, hearing aids, pacemakers and military "sleeper" technology. Now, ain't dat sumpin ? :-? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by tcreeley on 09/14/10 at 14:34:54 "They knew... They let it happen They used it to go for the Iraqi oil May they rot in Hell! " You're right- they scammed us for money, oil, power :( |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by WebsterMark on 09/14/10 at 23:08:57 Israel is a functioning society with elected representatives. Iran is not. Do not even think about taking the moral equivalency route, it's a dead end. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/15/10 at 02:50:29 You guysare killing your own argument. Might as well try to solder a gas tank with a 30 wattiron.The fuelwasnt sufficient to het the metal, the fires werent that hot, spend some time looking at it. I KNOW it wasnt one solid peiece of steel. Now,STOP & THINK..It collapsed symmetrically & it was HOWtall? Have you ever seen anything so tall fail & NOT fall over. The "I just cant believe they would do that" argument makes your opinion useless. You STATE you will not allow yourself to see the truth. The 9/11 commission MEMBERS have stated it was a cover up, okay? Hitler burned the Reichstagg. Understand what a False FlagAttack is or remain naive. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/15/10 at 06:36:06 023037262130271834273E550 wrote:
"BS" means many things in many different languages. It may mean "Brescia", one of Italy's most ancient cities; OR it may be a 3rd party media player for MSWindows OR it may be the British Standards Institute - the one which determines what a "1/8th inch UNF" wrench should be like OR it may mean "Sir, I beg to differ, your opinion tantamounts to manure" You see, Iran is a Constitutional Republic, the only point is, the highest grade politicians are all religiuos clerics. So, they may have rather radical points of view, but they will disagree and fight each other, as the link below graciopusly shows. http://www.payvand.com/news/10/jul/1279.html Your call. :-? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/15/10 at 08:19:11 497B7C6D6A7B6C537F6C751E0 wrote:
The USA is a functioning society with elected representatives,The only problem I don't know who they represent. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/15/10 at 08:27:38 I guess you guys think Iran is some backwards nation.YOushould see the cities there.Its beautiful. Iran took hostages back in the 70s?because we had been over there messing with their govt. Otherwise, Iran is a peaceful nation. The "Wipe Israeloff themap" quote was a LIE. Spend some time looking into it. What? You havent seen enough LIES yet to ber willingto believe its possible,no,LIKELY, that we would be lied to in ordertocreate an opinion in theminds of the people that Iran is a threat? They WANT us to want them to attack Iran,, wake up. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/15/10 at 08:29:36 554A4C4B5651605060584A460D3F0 wrote:
+1 |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/15/10 at 10:20:47 0A151314090E3F0F3F07151952600 wrote:
So,... they plotted and carried out a synchronized, four piece attack, killing 3,000 people, and billions or trillions of dollars of damage, but said... "Let's be neat about it. Let's do a controlled demolition, and make the building fall straight down"... "... and let's blow building 7 up too, even without having a plane hit it, 'cause no one will notice"... ...."but, be tidy".... I watched a TV program on controlled demolition, and they have to strip walls out, drill into pillars, loosen beams, run many hundreds of feet of wire... they don't just put a couple bombs in there... they have to pack explosives tightly up against beams, and place concrete blast barriers up against the charges to direct the blast... ...and nobody going to work in the twin towers that day noticed these exposed beams, and missing walls, and wires?... ... or the 2700 dead are all fake, or suicidal conspirators?... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/15/10 at 11:38:10 Serowbot - You and I respectfully disagree from time to time, but we're together on this one. Anyone who truly feels that this conspiracy theory holds water is a nutcase, plain and simple. The fires ran down because the terrorists chose to use Boeing 767ER airplanes. They did their homework. While the pilots among them certainly weren't officially rated for the 767, all they had to do was fly one well enough to steer it, at a high cruise speed, into the building somewhere near the top 1/3 of the structure. That ain't all that hard to do. I could train any of you to do that within about 10 hours of flying instruction time. Also, they picked a day with absolutely perfect weather, when the visibility all along the eastern U.S. was unrestricted, making the Twin Towers very easy to spot from about 40 miles away. ER stands for Extended Range - this version of the 767 carrys tens of thousands of gallons of fuel and has a range exceeding 4,000 miles. It is frequently used on transoceanic routes. The airplanes were all transcontinental flights, bound for California from the East Coast. They were full of fuel. Sorry, Bill - Jet fuel isn't gasoline. It doesn't burn quickly; rather it's chemically very close to kerosene, and burns slowly. As the burning fuel from the airplanes ran down thru the buildings, it caused fires many, many floors down from the floors where the airplanes actually impacted. Sheets of flame and fire from the burning fuel rained down maybe 30 floors, or more, from the impact site. Conspiracy theorists amaze me - anything to "trash" our country is in vogue these days, I guess. I don't know whether to pity them, or get really angry at them. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/15/10 at 12:19:36 7B74787279747F737463767463110 wrote:
;)... Yup,... I can think of no better way to get a perfect pancake collapse, than to drop a 30 story building directly down onto an 80 story one.... ...which is essentially what happened.... ...it almost has to drop straight down, because each successive lower floor is an intact supporting structure until it gets crushed.... like a vertical domino... ... and the beams didn't have to melt,... just loose their temper and weaken... then the 30 stories above do the job... The number of conspiracy theories are always proportional to the difference in size of the event and the cause... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by LostArtist on 09/15/10 at 12:32:42 justin, the towers didn't fall over, the collapsed, like when you stamp on a soda can to compress it, if you have a structure, hollow in the middle and one side is compromised(weakened), the top will stay contained within the structures original footprint, as the top fell through the building it demolished the supports holding the rest of the building up. the fire was estimated to burn at 1100 degrees F, which is hot enough to weaken the steel, not melt it, but weaken it to about half it's strength, this is how structures collapse from the top down Quote:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/15/10 at 13:24:50 LostArtist get a soda pop can and shoot a hole in it with a 22 one inch down for the top,And it will collapse just like the twin towers ::) You want even have to stomp on it. :o |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by LostArtist on 09/15/10 at 14:24:57 22292C2C7677400 wrote:
dude, I'm not even going to start explaining how wrong your physics are with that comparison. but I'll admit I made a bad analogy with the soda can, sorry. Serowbot did a much better job of explaining it |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/15/10 at 14:30:47 LA - Bill likes his one-liners to try to counter a complex posting. It must be his sense of humor, since he can't begin to think he's actually saying something factually true. Take a look at the recent discussions on the Tall Table about human vs. animal mental capacity. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by drharveys on 09/15/10 at 14:48:46 We've all seen building implosions on the evening news. The reporters have been fed a lot of info from the demolition companies about how this is a technically difficult precision operation and everything has to be done "just so" or the building will fall over like a felled redwood and cause destruction for several city blocks. Then they fire the charges and the thing practically telescopes in on itself. Ever see a headline showing the resultant damage when one these demolition jobs is botched and the building topples? I haven't either. That's because it's not such a precision operation after all. In short, once the vertical collapse of a building begins, it continues. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/15/10 at 14:55:15 2C232F252E2328242334212334460 wrote:
Jerry I have been a builder all my life My dad was a builder their no way those building would fall like they did with the planes hitting them,And they were hit at difference levels but fell in about the same length of time. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/15/10 at 15:07:13 I just went out in my back yard, and shot a 22 bullet through the top 1/3 of a tin can,... ...then I dropped a 30 story building on it... Yup,... it's flat... :-?... ;D ;D ;D... that's science!... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/15/10 at 16:16:06 333C303A313C373B3C2B3E3C2B590 wrote:
Are you saying I'm closer to and animal than human brain wise. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by tcreeley on 09/15/10 at 18:42:17 Let's laugh at the conspiracy theories a whole lot because we like our make-believe ...the stories that president Bush and uncle cheney told us. Those are real good stories too, ...and did you know that uncle C once shot a friend of his? would have killed him too if it was buckshot instead of birdshot. I like the real make-believe stories more than the theories...!- bunch of liars. ;D At least conspiracy theories are trying to get at the truth. The other side is trying to cover it up! |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Starlifter on 09/15/10 at 18:53:03 +1 |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by tldk1678 on 09/15/10 at 19:33:19 Star, I have no idea what you are driving at. When hunting birds, you use birdshot. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/15/10 at 19:47:44 52455443434A435F260 wrote:
I'm not saying they weren't heartless liars and crooks with seriously warped moralities.... I'm just saying the logistics, physics, and complexity of the 911 conspiracy theories aren't realistic, and don't hold water... They may have known in advance (but, I doubt it),... and they most certainly jumped on the opportunity and used it to further an evil, and misguided war, and manipulate the American people... So,.. +1 to that... ;)... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by LostArtist on 09/15/10 at 20:58:04 ^ | what he said (thinking of making that my default answer for just about everything . . . ) |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/15/10 at 22:20:41 44677B7C497A7C617B7C080 wrote:
;D... great minds think alike, 'ay Lost... ;)... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/16/10 at 00:49:55 I am not inherently a "conspirationist". I like to think of myself as a "free man, free thinker". Now... I bough this book a while ago and actually read it. http://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Mass-Deception-Propaganda-Bushs/dp/1585422762#_ If you don't want to buy the book, see the video: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqIPZzx0tfQ[/media] TRAILER http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4437853756074043715# 98 MINUTE FILM You guys (and gals) have internet: do youselves a favor, use it and read newspapers online which are based in Europe. You'll be surprised 8-) |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by PerrydaSavage on 09/16/10 at 06:44:07 I am totally amazed that this Topic has gone on for 5 pages! :o Anyhoo, whether or not Saddam actually had WMD's in 2001 ("NOT" IMHO ... ) had NOTHING to do with the events of Sept. 11th, 2001 AT THE TIME THOSE EVENTS HAPPENED! The WMD "excuse" for the invasion of Iraq was cooked up afterwards. There is NO conspiracy surrounding 9/11 ... Islamic Terror networks designed and orchestrated the attacks which may or may not have been carried out "exactly" to plan (NOT occording to the plane that was brought down in Pennsylvania). The Western World (USA in particular) were largely taken unawares that morning outside of some possible "rumblings" within the Intelligence Community ... EDIT: Would like to add, that in reality, there is very little difference between the the surprize attacks of 9/11 and that perputrated by the Japanese on Dec. 7th, 1941 ... only that Pearl Harbour attack was carried out by a soverign government, a known and visible enemy upon which a formal declaration of war could be made, as opposed to the Islamic Terrorists who are largely unknown and officially not represented by any soverign governement ... an enemy of ghosts and shadows ... much harder to fight with a clear objective IMHO ... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by LostArtist on 09/16/10 at 09:34:08 5741564B53464B50240 wrote:
;D... great minds think alike, 'ay Lost... ;)... [/quote] does your brain hurt as much as mine does during any hour of the given day??? not sure I'm cut out for this thinking thing anymore |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/16/10 at 10:04:51 Na,... I've learned to type without using my brain at all... ...but, my lips do get tired.... :-?... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Starlifter on 09/16/10 at 11:26:06 Ever wonder why Islamic Terrorists never attack ...say Iceland, Switzerland, or Vietnam? Are not the populations of these countries also "infidels"? ...think about it. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/16/10 at 13:07:41 I would say because those countries mine their own business. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/16/10 at 13:14:01 I don't think they mine it, I'm sure their business is definitely ... defused. On th eother hand, thingy Cheney, for one, defined Democrat Eco-friendly groups as "Eco-Terrorists" both before and after 9/11, much before anybody started saying "Al Qaeda". And anyway, it wasn't Al Qaeda, it was Al Kayder, an Dutch-Irish guy from Queens... Ne-e-ext ! |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by WebsterMark on 09/16/10 at 18:08:55 Star; Evil always recognizes Good and lashes out at it. Always. That's why we, the US, are attacked. We are a force for Good in this world and Islamic Terrorist are the opposite. It's no more complicated than that. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/16/10 at 18:10:48 Web who attacked us I missed out on that. what country |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/17/10 at 00:39:33 122027363120370824372E450 wrote:
WMark, seriously, I do not see white dove wings on the backs of your GIs, nor do I see fiery eyes and swords of flame. You must be listening far too much to your local TV Preacher and reading far too little international news. You sound so very much like that guy who insisted "God is with us" Now, the problem lies with this very statement, I am ready to challenge you AND your TV Preacher that God is not with you, nor with him, nor with anybody who calls out his name to say "I will wage war, you're with me, right?" He will not. If you read the Lord's Prayer (the one they made you memorize in Sunday School, the one which zillions of people will mumble without really thinking what the words say) you will notice the Prayer says "give us this day our daily bread" - just the bread, not the gravy, not the Sloppy Joe, just the bare bread; you will notice it says "forgive us our trespasses just as we forgive those who trespass against us" I have not seen much forgiveness in the most animated TV Preachers, quite the opposite. THEY PREACH TO HATE AND DESPISE AND THE "HOLIER THAN THOU" ATTITUDE and this is not good at all. "We are a force for Good in this world " Go ask the Navajo or the Seminoles - or Hawaii, for that matter, what happened to Queen Liliukalai ? She was "canned" by Dole, the pineapple magnate, and overthrown. :-X Just relax, and smile to your neighbor, regardless of the style of beard on his chin. 8-) |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/10 at 06:47:54 No,, Heres how it is We have been TOLD all our Lives we are a force for good. Utter & complete horsecrap. Look at the drugs weve imported.. I say WE, because the CIA did it. Look at the democratically elected people weve unseated. Why? Why did we do that? S. America, we used them then destroyed them. That pineapple faced guy,Noriega? Ohh, Ohh, &Saddam himself,we PUT that guy in place. Its NOT our people who decide to do these things. Its the unelecteds who run things.People like Kissinger,not JUST Kissinger, but he & men like him have been pulling the strings for years. Our military is USED to accomplish what satisfies corporations,not what they are supposedto be doing. Not securing the border,not just watching out for US, responding to real threats to YOUR future,not some corporation that wants a pipeline. Sadly, the people believe they are threatened by little postage stamp sized countries,.because the electeds tellthem they are.& somehow,the newsmanages to show us all little things, here & there, to demonstrate how "less than desirable"THAT culture is.Making it easier to get support from the peopleto send troops & drop bombs.. A force for GOOD? Are you serious? Look up DU Birth Defects Iraq Pictures.. have a trash can handy to puke in |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/17/10 at 06:58:09 JOG - Yep, we have put little guys in power in little places to preserve our national interests, and I hope we continue to do so. Problem is, those little guys get swelled egos, then they think their little peanut places all of a sudden need to have some muscle to flex and to do that, they turn against us. Then the whole cycle starts over and we have to install a new guy who stays loyal for a few years or a couple of decades until his head swells. This hasn't changed since the Romans installed puppet governors in provinces once they had conquered various places. King Herod of Judea was such a Roman puppet - the Romans knew how to keep the conquered in check - let them think they still had their own governments and power structures in place, when the reality was that the strings were pulled in Rome. I certainly hope that my national gov't is looking out for our national interests - that's the essence of international politics. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/17/10 at 08:13:51 7B646265787F4E7E4E76646823110 wrote:
+1 |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by LostArtist on 09/17/10 at 08:25:50 7F707C767D707B777067727067150 wrote:
so you want america, the democracy that is supposed to be the best in the world, to continue empirical practices?? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/17/10 at 08:39:15 Yep, we have put little guys in power in little places to preserve our national interests Possibly, but not all the time. Weve put criminals in power to make it easier for us to run dope thru their countries, too. Weve unseated GOOD elected presidents & put in creeps,too. Thats Why the Iranians took those hostages so long ago, to tell us to stay out of their business.. If you want me to believe that WE, with all the $$$,manpower & weapons we have, have been threatened by anyones "Rise to power" in S. America & that their being there posed some threat to us now or in the future, youre asking me toi accept pure folly. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 09/17/10 at 08:50:24 LA - As a student of international politics since my college days, I just feel that my gov't should pursue and protect our national interests including our economic interests around the world. That's why a gov't exists. Our best interests are multi-fold. In certain places, they may be national security, like in the Cold War era when we had to have the Shah in power in Iran to give us access to listening posts to gather intell on the Soviet Union. In certain other situaitons. like Southeast Asia, it was originally to assure the production of rubber (Vietnam had more rubber plantations than anywhere else) until man-made rubber was perfected enough that access to the supplies of natural rubber became unimportant. And yes, we have to have access to oil. We pay for it at market prices. (No, Bill - we don't steal it). But we have to have the access. Idealism has little place in international politics. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Starlifter on 09/17/10 at 21:48:37 JOG, hammer meet nail! +1000% on your last two posts. ...so Jerry you condone the evil committed in our ha ha, national |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/18/10 at 10:14:36 I hope my last two or three posts weren't misunderstood - I am not hammering on America, I am just pointing out the discrepancies between propaganda (the "official truth") and history. History can only be denied or manipulated fo so much before it comes out "as it really was", and it's darn hard to convince people the moon is made of green cheese. There is a fundamental difference between "national interest" and "corporate interest". If Goodyear want Vietnamese rubber, OK, go out and buy it. But if somebody else makes a better offer, you can't just go and declare war and seize it anyhow. In a small scale it would be called "bully attitude" like the school bully who steals snacks. In the real world, it would be called "imperial approach" (not empirical, whomever wrote that) or outright "piracy", i.e. "hit&run". The Shah of Iran was important because it was far better to have Iran on OUR side than on the Soviet side. And, since Iranians are NOT arabs, they are Persians, Indoeuropeans, they made excellent soldiers, extremely skilled fighter pilots and very competent generals. Which is why the Imam Khomeini had them all arrested and executed when he came to power, you just can't trust a cmopetent high-ranking military professional, he might even THINK! (I'm being sarcastic - what I really mean is that they were too well trained to be "westerners" to be "reliable" to Islamic rule) Saddam was put in power by the USA in the early '70s, waged war against Iran because he was told to do so by the US, but when he misbehaved, he was first frowned upon, then got fingers wagging, eventually saw Iraq invaded and he was deposed, arrested, tried (???) and hanged. Now, since when is a Head of State hung ? Not since the English murdered King Henry III and beheaded James I, IIRC. A civilized nation does not execute Heads of State. Now, I do not see how "the free world" could be at danger because somebody wants to sell rubber, or oil, or lithium, to an Indian manufacturer rather than a US, or UK, or Dutch, or Russian manufacturer. The goods will be on the international market anyway. You may think I am foolish, but considering my Country only produces the final, finished industrial product, but has no natural raw matter to start with, it can't be all that bad. Unemployment is not as bad as in those nations who have former colonies or current Territories or satellite states to buy from, it's all "money or nothing" to the Italian economy, but our industry is doing very well, thank you very much. So, a little more focus on international peace and a little less on corporate fat cats. They could use some Diet Coke. 8-) |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by Serowbot on 09/18/10 at 10:26:51 25382D3B2B293C273A21480 wrote:
Yup,... ;)... |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mick on 09/18/10 at 10:57:56 Italy also produces some of the best motorcycles in the world. Unfortunatly also the most expensive,Oh well,you get what you pay for. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by drharveys on 09/21/10 at 06:28:35 Italy, motorcycles -- now some interesting topics at last! http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e204/drharveys/RockSign.jpg |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/21/10 at 06:43:52 6F7267716163766D706B020 wrote:
I was waiting for the responses.. I see no one wants to rassle with ya on this. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by WebsterMark on 09/22/10 at 05:46:06 mpescatori; I would strongly dispute the words Saddam and Head of State used in the same sentance... Was your own Mussolini hanged as a Head of State? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/22/10 at 06:18:18 Saddam sure have not been hung,It should have been GWB. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mick on 09/22/10 at 09:25:36 6E6560603A3B0C0 wrote:
+1 |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by tcreeley on 09/24/10 at 09:54:46 mpescatori -- so correct, the US is out of control. It is slowly becoming a brutal place to live. Liberals used to turn the other cheek to the conservatives and there would be mutual respect. After President Nixon was impeached, the right went after President Clinton. Since then it has been awful. In the course of all of this, the right have been manipulated by the corporate capitalists into a real frenzy. The byproduct of this is that the corporate capitalists run free - no regulation, free capital, and the military might of the US. Our wars are imperialistic money makers cloaked as security enhancers. Liberals are stepping up the rhetoric to hold off the neocon led conservatives, but it doesn't look good. If you have a rabid skunk, you need to shoot it. I hope it doesn't come to that!! ;) ;) ;) :'( :'( :'( |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by WebsterMark on 09/24/10 at 12:28:12 TC, i think we're living in different countries. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by thumperclone on 09/24/10 at 12:54:26 the persian rat pres of iran said our govt(gwb reelection team) took out the towers.. must be true |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/24/10 at 12:56:45 When was the last time Iran bombed another country. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/24/10 at 13:56:05 You know when the USA is expecting and attack they spread the pres and vice pres a distant apart,On 911 they were spread a pretty good distant apart,And George was in innocently talking to kindergarten kids ::) |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by forrest on 09/24/10 at 17:52:03 I can't go with the "truthers" on this one. How could anyone, especially our government, haul in several tons of explosives and set them in the interior of both towers without anyone knowing it? It would have taken days to place that much explosives and it was done in secret? PFFFFFFFT. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by bill67 on 09/24/10 at 19:34:05 There were floors closed off for days before 911,GWB's nephew was a inspector for the building. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by WebsterMark on 09/25/10 at 09:17:10 Bill, honestly, go fly a kite....you're just talking nonsense. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/25/10 at 11:21:59 DrHarveys, terriffic Beemer ! 8-) When did you go and visit Sardinia ? Costa Smeralda (Palau actually) is where I indulge myself one week/year, terriffic skindiving ! 5C6E69787F6E79466A79600B0 wrote:
Mr. Webster, 1) Saddanm Hussein was acknowledged as the legitimate Head of State by the US Government http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/21/Saddam_rumsfeld.jpg/220px-Saddam_rumsfeld.jpg Here he is with Secretary of State Donald Rumsfeld, who seems to be quite happy to see him On the other hand, Mussolini was NOT a Head of State, he was a rogue, deposed and secessionist former Prime Minister . The Head of State was HM the King Vittorio Emanuele III, who was exiled in 1947. You seem to be confused on the difference between a Head of State and a Prime Minister. Your assumption of "knowing enough" is alarming. You remind me of those apes in the derelict temple in Rudyard Kipling's "The Jungle Book" (never mind the book, go rent the video, it's shorter and it's all pics, nothing to read) you put a rag on your shoulders and a pot on your head and you think you can call yourself a "Man". During these last 150 years, Italy suffered one political assasination, HM King Umberto I in July 1900, by an anarchist. The culprit was arrested, sentenced to death, then graced and sentenced to life. Please, how many US Presidents fell to political assassinations in the same 150 years? How many cases have been 100% solved? How many assassins have been caught and tried and are serving their sentence ? When it comes to politics, there is precious little you can teach me, young man. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by WebsterMark on 09/26/10 at 07:01:24 mpescatori; <---- European know it all raised in the cocoon of protection granted him by the US. I’ve been fortunate enough to travel to Europe many times and have many like you. Your frame of reference is similar to a wealthy US suburban teenager who hasn’t really had to face reality since Mommy and Daddy will always bail him out at the last moment. And I’m not confusing anything. Mussolini was your de-facto head of state in the same way Saddam was. Sure, we recognized Saddam and used him against what we perceived to be a greater threat, Iraq. In hindsight, was that wrong? Sure. We shouldn’t do the “he might be a son of a pregnant dog but he’s our son of a pregnant dog” thing anymore. Hopefully, we’ve learned you can’t sleep with a snake and expect not to get bit. Go ahead, take your shots at the US. Would you rather have China, Russia or Saudi Arabia as the top dog in the world? You thing any of those guys are gonna life a finger to bail you out next time? Good luck with that. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mick on 09/26/10 at 07:49:19 Webster, being English some people concider me a europian (I'm not) At age 17 and a half I was obliged to go in the Army or any branch of the service ,I think Americans boys did to at that time,did you ? Anyway I came home on my first leave after basic training,and my Parents had moved ,my younger sister had entered a training school for nurses,so she was out of the house aswell,they got a one bedroom appartment,So I don't think we are molly coddled like the US teenagers, @ 15 you get yourself a job or an apprentaship and get on with it. If you want to on to higher learning ,then take the tests ,pass them ,then again off you go. your choice. I got to know lots of Italians toward the end of the war,we had POWs all over the place,they were all nice enough ,our parents told us not to speak with them. At that age tell a kid to not do some thing and that is the one thing he will do,me anyway. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/10 at 08:57:20 5C6E69787F6E79466A79600B0 wrote:
So wrong on so many levels, correcting your thinking would take years. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mpescatori on 09/27/10 at 03:17:52 :P Boy oh boy is this getting to be some tit-for-tat spitting contest !!! 734146575041566945564F240 wrote:
Thanks to US foreign politics, Nations such as Albania,Romania, Bulgaria are now NATO Nations; on the other hand, the EU has granted tham some - not all - of the benefits/advantages of EU membership. Europeans concur the EU analysed the issue with much deeper insight than the US; would you accept a Bulgarian General telling US troops what to do ni a joint military expedition? Or having your men live by Albanian intelligence? Quote:
I am 50 (fifty) years old, young man, and have three degrees to earn my decent daily bread. I left home at 19 immediately after my baccalaureat (which is way more demanding than a 12thGrade High School Diploma) and never had to return, if not on (paid) holidays. Quote:
Er... let me get this right. "We" (=The US ) recognized Saddam and used him against what we perceived to be a greater threat, Iraq. :o:o:o Is that for real, or are you smoking some really potent stuff ? ;D ;D ;D Until proven otherwise, Saddam Hussein was the Head of State of IRAQ, and the US used him to wage war against IRAN. That is known as "War by proxy", as the US and China waged in Vietnam, or the US and the USSR waged in Afghanistan 1980-on. Quote:
My dear friend, everything went wrong. You trained Saddam as a CIA sleeper (when he was studying law at Cairo Uni) then you infiltrated him in Ba'ath Socialist Party in Baghdad; it turned out Saddam used the CIA to buy himself some college money... go on and read his biography before mixing apples and oranges... Quote:
Wake up, WM, China hold how many thousand billion US$ in Treasury Bonds ? The world's top dogs are, at the moment, US, Russia, China and India, in no particular order. In fact, given my personal experience with the military around the world, may I declare that having top technology does not make up for lack of manpower, while manpower alone, sometimes, will defeat hi-tech; see the hordes of Sherman tanks swarming like ants around German Tiger Panzers ! While EU Enlistment Minimum Requirements have been hiked up considerably ever since we all (EU Nations) converted from National Service (the Draft) to Enlisted volunteers, my US colleagues admit the Minimum Requirements have been lowered noticeably in the US. The point is, WM, you may have visited Europe, but what did you s e e ? What did you l e a r n ? |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by WebsterMark on 09/27/10 at 08:15:33 Mpescatori- Stow your ‘young man’ crap. I’m 49, grew up dirt poor until my drunken father watched my mother die and gave me and my siblings to her middle class sisters to raise. Six of us in a small house in working class neighborhood of St. Louis, MO. Sorry, but I was not able to get three degrees to earn my daily bread. I started out cleaning operating rooms on the 3rd shift at a hospital. I’ve been in the textile industry for years now and have been fortunate enough to see the world, from its poorest to its richest I’ll tell you what I see in Europe: a split between fewer and fewer men with working habits and those who would blindly live off the ‘state’. Doing business in Italy can be a joke. From the constant holidays to you guys just disappearing for the whole month of August. What the hell do you guys do all August? It’s not like you’re out having babies. Most of Europe is no better, I was speaking to a Frenchmen customer of mine last week who was commenting on the recent transportation strikes. He’s living and working in Iowa now and has no desire to return to France. He’s embarrassed by the work ethic of France, especially when compared to the rural men and women of Iowa. Look Mpescatori, it doesn’t really matter. Italy is slowing dying out and won’t be recognizable in a couple generations. Have you been to Amsterdam lately? Notice anything different? You’re not far behind. And if you’re right and the US, Russia, china and India are the world’s top dogs, you better hope and pray it is the US that turns things around (away from the European model) and returns to the lone superpower. Like I said, next time Italy gets it’s butt in a sling, you think Russia’s gonna bleed for you? Anyway, I’m done with this crowd. I’ve never seen a bigger bunch of mooching, crybabies anywhere. There such a large percentage of pseudo –libertarians, rich hating, class warfare loving, tree-hugging liberals on this forum it’s like climbing inside Keith Oberman’s head. You cowards should just cut Uncle Sam out of the middle: hang outside your nearest Morton’s steakhouse and ask everyone going in for $50. I mean, it’s more honest than ask President Hopey-change to do it for you. |
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Title: Re: 9 11 Post by mick on 09/27/10 at 15:27:00 Not very long ago there was a study made by I have no clue but I did read it. It was about Europians having way more time off than Americans,What I thought was odd was the fact that europians produced more that US workers in the same year. The answer they said was because Europians were more rested ,they have no health care issues to worry about,and in general seemed to be quite happy. In my last job we were offered a 40 hr week working 4 10 hr shifts ,I jumped on it ,It seemed to me that three days off a week was much more restfull,even though it was the same. So don't kid yourself WM,this country is pretty good ,but It isn't any better than any country in Europe, if you use the old noggin you can work anywhere. Even today ,in this day and age Americans die for the lack of medical insurance,sure if you have a life or death situation they will save your life, but you have untreated cancer ,diabitees, all kinds of other problems can render you quite dead.In short order, Not so ANYWHERE in Europe. So please don't give the standard answer, "If you don't like it move" Believe me I would have gone back to London after retirment but I would miss my kids to much,and none of us are rich enough to buy a $2000 round trip ticket once a year. Anyway most of the people I know now are all decent enough,that includes many people on this site,except Sarah Palin Fans,I have to draw the line somewhere if you support Sarah Palin,clearly you must be nuts. It's ok Bill I know you only want her to sit on your face,so you are excused. |
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